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-   -   Defensive Prospect depth (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=114938)

Starsdude 11-23-2004 11:16 AM

Defensive Prospect depth
 
Stars are ranked 26th by HF but have perhaps the best defensive prospect depth
Daley-ready PP QB
Jancevski AHL all star ready 6/7 d-man
Belle-good skater, size high upside if can learn game
Fransson-top talent puck mover
Grossman having a nice year in SEL
Fistric-Size, toughness

All these guys have a real chance at the NHL.

Then there are guys like Granath, Vainio and Waugh who have a prayer. Just do not get the rankings at all. Just wondering who has better depth at defense than this

leafaholix* 11-23-2004 11:20 AM

The best defensive depth? I think not.

Slats432 11-23-2004 11:21 AM

Chicago and Nashville. The leaders of the pack. And it is pretty clear to me.

J17 Vs Proclamation 11-23-2004 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Bachul
Chicago and Nashville. The leaders of the pack. And it is pretty clear to me.

Yeah, Chicago have been stocking up big. May backfire on them.

Ajacied 11-23-2004 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Starsdude
Stars are ranked 26th by HF but have perhaps the best defensive prospect depth
Daley-ready PP QB
Jancevski AHL all star ready 6/7 d-man
Belle-good skater, size high upside if can learn game
Fransson-top talent puck mover
Grossman having a nice year in SEL
Fistric-Size, toughness

All these guys have a real chance at the NHL.

Then there are guys like Granath, Vainio and Waugh who have a prayer. Just do not get the rankings at all. Just wondering who has better depth at defense than this

Definitely among the best, but we lack the safe prospects with top pairing potential to be labelled the best. In terms of strict depth, we have a strong shot.. Though your forgot Nickerson and Erskine.

Slats432 11-23-2004 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J17ster
Yeah, Chicago have been stocking up big. May backfire on them.

There is no backfiring having too much talent. If you end up with 5 awesome blueline prospects, you trade one away to get the offensive talent or goalie.

leafaholix* 11-23-2004 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
Definitely among the best...

If you mean top 15-20, you may be right.

J17 Vs Proclamation 11-23-2004 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by George Bachul
There is no backfiring having too much talent. If you end up with 5 awesome blueline prospects, you trade one away to get the offensive talent or goalie.

Still a dangerous game to play. Chicago need another great scorer to partner Ruutu. Chicago don't need 5 aewsome blueline prospects. Anyway it is not always that easy to just simply trade for a great offensive talent.

Dave is a killer 11-23-2004 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J17ster
Still a dangerous game to play. Chicago need another great scorer to partner Ruutu. Chicago don't need 5 aewsome blueline prospects. Anyway it is not always that easy to just simply trade for a great offensive talent.

defense wins championships...offense sells the tickets... just ask New Jersey about that ... we see that your priorities are out of whack...Defensive prospects are more valueable than offensive prospects

Ajacied 11-23-2004 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leafaholix
If you mean top 15-20, you may be right.

Sure thing..

The Stars defensive prospects are, as a group, top 10 fairly easily..

leafaholix* 11-23-2004 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
Sure thing..

The Stars defensive prospects are, as a group, top 10 fairly easily..

Except they have the least number of defensive prospects in the league, that's depth? I can give you a list of teams that are easily ahead of Dallas, arguably ahead of Dallas, equal to Dallas, and not as good... just looking at the first 10 organizations based on alphabetical order there are 7 or 8 ahead of the Stars easily.

Ajacied 11-23-2004 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Except they have the least number of defensive prospects in the league, that's depth? I can give you a list of teams that are easily ahead of Dallas, arguably ahead of Dallas, equal to Dallas, and not as good... just looking at the first 10 organizations based on alphabetical order there are 7 or 8 ahead of the Stars easily.

Least?

I count 14 (Daley, Fransson, Belle, Nickerson, Fistric, Granath, Grossman, Vaino, Jancevski, Khomitski, Waugh, Vomela, Ludwig and Erskine (if he counts))..

That's by no means the least in the NHL.

leafaholix* 11-23-2004 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
Least?

I count 14 (Daley, Fransson, Belle, Nickerson, Fistric, Granath, Grossman, Vaino, Jancevski, Khomitski, Waugh, Vomela, Ludwig and Erskine (if he counts))..

That's by no means the least in the NHL.

You might want to find your editor and update him on that little statistic.

And the ones you did add (Vaino, Ludwig, Vomela, Erskine) don't really make a difference since every team has a few of them. Toronto has a bunch of quality prospects and they fall in there just around 10 last time I checked... and the Leafs core of prospects is deeper than the Stars.

J17 Vs Proclamation 11-23-2004 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seven_Nation_Army
defense wins championships...offense sells the tickets... just ask New Jersey about that ... we see that your priorities are out of whack...Defensive prospects are more valueable than offensive prospects

You still need offense. Anyway i belive that it is Martin Broduer who is a big reason for thier success. Chicago don't have Broduer. Correction they don't have Martin Broduer. The problem with Chicago is they don't many offensive prospects asides from Radulov. There top prospects are all d-men. They could have opted to draft a guy like Olesz or Tukonen instead of Barker as they already have Seabrook and Babchuk. You need offense and defense not just one or the other.

Chaos 11-23-2004 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leafaholix
You might want to find your editor and update him on that little statistic.

Dont have one

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leafaholix
And the ones you did add (Vaino, Ludwig, Vomela, Erskine) don't really make a difference since every team has a few of them. Toronto has a bunch of quality prospects and they fall in there just around 10 last time I checked... and the Leafs core of prospects is deeper than the Stars.

I agree that every team has players like Erskine..dont see why you say the Leafs core of prospects(assuming your referring to d-men) is deeper...please explain.

Kritty 11-23-2004 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
Sure thing..

The Stars defensive prospects are, as a group, top 10 fairly easily..

Top 10 easily? You guys have got to get off the Stars bandwagon and see the rest of the league.

Chicago
Nashville
Washington
Edmonton
Minnesota
Vancouver
Anaheim
San Jose
Ottawa
Toronto
NY Rangers
Pittsburgh
Atlanta
Tampa

There's 14 teams that I would rather have than the Stars. So the guy that said in the 15-20 range is bang on. That's not even considering players that are on the verge of being full time NHLers.

Evilo 11-23-2004 11:51 AM

Hmm, Nashville and Chicago clearly ahead of the pack?
Might want to take a look at Pittsburgh's depth.
Standouts Whitney, Fernholm, Nemec, Goligoski, Welch, Bissonnette, Lupaschuk, and several solid in Lannon, Koci, Fata, Rouleau, Sersen, Schneider...
That doesn't take into account young guys like Orpik, Rozsival and Melichar.

leafaholix* 11-23-2004 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos
I agree that every team has players like Erskine..dont see why you say the Leafs core of prospects(assuming your referring to d-men) is deeper...please explain.

A lot more depth between the top prospect and the guys like Granath, Marsh, Waugh, and Seikola.

Ajacied 11-23-2004 11:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leafaholix
You might want to find your editor and update him on that little statistic.

We don't even have one.. Our 2004 draftees aren't even added, let alone graded.

We've discussed the grades with our fanbase a few times earlier this year, this was pretty much what we most agreed upon:

01) Johan Fransson 8.0C
02) Trevor Daley 7.5B
03) Shawn Belle 8.0D
04) Mark Fistric 7.0A
05) Niclas Grossman 7.0B
06) Matt Nickerson 6.0B
07) Dan Jancevski 6.0A
08) Elias Granath 5.5B
09) Nik Vaino 5.5B
10) John Erskine 5.5A
11) Trevor Ludwig 5.0B
12) Lukas Vomela 5.0B
13) Geoff Waugh 5.0A
14) Vadim Khomitski 5.0C

leafaholix* 11-23-2004 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ott = Snott
We don't even have one.. Our 2004 draftees aren't even added, let alone graded.

We've discussed the grades with our fanbase a few times earlier this year, this was pretty much what we most agreed upon:

01) Johan Fransson 8.0C
02) Trevor Daley 7.5B
03) Shawn Belle 8.0D
04) Mark Fistric 7.0A
05) Niclas Grossman 7.0B
06) Matt Nickerson 6.0B
07) Dan Jancevski 6.0A
08) Elias Granath 5.5B
09) Nik Vaino 5.5B
10) John Erskine 5.5A
11) Trevor Ludwig 5.0B
12) Lukas Vomela 5.0B
13) Geoff Waugh 5.0A
14) Vadim Khomitski 5.0C

Based on the ratings of Dallas fans, the Stars defense should be top 5... but sadly that's not how it works.

Rabid Ranger 11-23-2004 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Based on the ratings of Dallas fans, the Stars defense should be top 5... but sadly that's not how it works.


I have to agree, although Stars fans aren't alone in overrating their prospects.

leafaholix* 11-23-2004 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
I have to agree, although Stars fans aren't alone in overrating their prospects.

True, but not everybody rates their prospects and uses it to rank them as top 10 in the league when it's clear they're no higher than 15... CLEARLY.

Rabid Ranger 11-23-2004 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leafaholix
True, but not everybody rates their prospects and uses it to rank them as top 10 in the league when it's clear they're no higher than 15... CLEARLY.


Yeah, I just don't see it, but maybe that's because I'm not a fan of Belle, Daley, Fransson, or Fistric. I'll be very surprised if any of them becomes more than a number 4 on the blueline.

Ajacied 11-23-2004 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rabid Ranger
Yeah, I just don't see it, but maybe that's because I'm not a fan of Belle, Daley, Fransson, or Fistric. I'll be very surprised if any of them becomes more than a number 4 on the blueline.

Probably because neither of them are Americans..

mooseOAK* 11-23-2004 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos
I agree that every team has players like Erskine..dont see why you say the Leafs core of prospects(assuming your referring to d-men) is deeper...please explain.

The Leafs still have a few defenceman that are still young and in the NHL such as Kaberle, Pilar, and Berg to go along with the prospects in St. John's. Look at the Baby Leafs' record going with only one veteran back on defence.

The Stars have a bunch of old guys and a bunch of prospects with nothing in between.


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