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-   -   Burke's principles = doom (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1149617)

GNOT 03-30-2012 06:36 PM

Burke's principles = doom
 
Its over before it even begins. I mean next year. Burkie believes he knows best and operates under his own rules. Early trade deadline, check. Shorter contracts, check, and etc.

With all the other teams willing to offer elite players more years and stability and less pressure, why does anyone think anything will change next year. Even our goalie situation, which FINALLY seems to be on the radar, will not gain us a game changer.

Burke has handcuffed himself, why should a player get less from the leafs when eveywhere else will pay more and longer term (stability for the player, would you do it in their place).

Burke will change some pieces this summer, but nothing that will change the end result of the Burke era. These are dark times, Dougie is spinning in his bed.

Once Burke leaves, please let the next GM want to win games more than contract negotiations.

blasted_Sabre 03-30-2012 07:25 PM

One thing I will never do is fault Burke for not offering insane long term deals. Say what you will about his signings, at least we arent stuck with them for a decade (or more).

Stephen 03-30-2012 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre (Post 47004907)
One thing I will never do is fault Burke for not offering insane long term deals. Say what you will about his signings, at least we arent stuck with them for a decade (or more).

Doesn't really seem that bad to be stuck with Kovalchuk for a decade when you think about it...

blasted_Sabre 03-30-2012 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 47005159)
Doesn't really seem that bad to be stuck with Kovalchuk for a decade when you think about it...

Let me know in 12 years how hes playing.

And Kovulchuk is bad example. Lou Lam never wanted to offer him that deal. It was forced on him by ownership. Many people think Lou is one of the best GMs in the business. If he doesnt like them, doesnt that make you think maybe its not a good diea?

ITM 03-30-2012 07:39 PM

Way too many people are not seeing the realities that confronted this franchise during his time here. I personally like Burke's principles and think the intention behind them, really seeks to consider the player - the human being, and the fans in doing so.

It would be informative to collect all of the targets once rumoured to have been on Burke's list...I think you'd find that there were realistic hopes of landing the Sedins, Kesler, amongst others. Most likely an oversight by Burke in thinking, his loyalty to them would result in their loyalty to him.

If players had principles like Burke did, you'd see a much different team and certainly a much different product.

Say what you will about Brian Burke, but I for one love his dedication and the swagger he's attempted to instill in a club that seems frozen with fear and insecurity. For goodness sake...at least the man hopes out loud...our locker room is reduced to a nightly pull string of tired cliches and prozac passive parroting...The best thing about the Toronto Maple Leafs right now, is Brian Burke...and a lot of people are missing it...missing it by a country mile.

egd27 03-30-2012 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stephen (Post 47005159)
Doesn't really seem that bad to be stuck with Kovalchuk for a decade when you think about it...

Sure. For the first 3 or 4 years anyway. The last 5 or 6? Maybe, maybe not.

Stephen 03-30-2012 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by egd27 (Post 47006497)
Sure. For the first 3 or 4 years anyway. The last 5 or 6? Maybe, maybe not.

That's the deal with the devil all teams seem to do, and they're all more successful.

MountainGoat 03-30-2012 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre (Post 47005199)
Let me know in 12 years how hes playing.

And Kovulchuk is bad example. Lou Lam never wanted to offer him that deal. It was forced on him by ownership. Many people think Lou is one of the best GMs in the business. If he doesnt like them, doesnt that make you think maybe its not a good diea?

you say this as if it were a fact, link? or did you pull this out of your ***, if Lou "didn't like" Kovalchuk he wouldn't have traded for him

Kovy has been a great fit for the Devils, easily the best player for us this year, he's bought into the system and became a better two way forward

no one forces Lou's hand, theres a reason why he's been the Devils GM since the 80's

blasted_Sabre 03-30-2012 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie1987 (Post 47008275)
you say this as if it were a fact, link? or did you pull this out of your ***, if Lou "didn't like" Kovalchuk he wouldn't have traded for him

Kovy has been a great fit for the Devils, easily the best player for us this year, he's bought into the system and became a better two way forward

no one forces Lou's hand, theres a reason why he's been the Devils GM since the 80's

Um, what? Its pretty widely known. I didnt say he didnt want him. He didnt want him for the contract NJ ownership offered him.

Quote:

“You’d have to speak to ownership about that,” Lamoriello said. “The commitment that ownership has made here, this is a commitment and a decision they wanted to make for this type of a player and all I can do is say whether the player is a player that will fit into the team, can help the team and is not a risk as a player. As far as what the financial commitment is and that aspect of it, that was out of my hands.
http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/f..._part_of_nhl1/

Care to retract your statement about me talking out of my *** now?

MountainGoat 03-30-2012 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre (Post 47008701)
Um, what? Its pretty widely known. I didnt say he didnt want him. He didnt want him for the contract NJ ownership offered him.



http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/f..._part_of_nhl1/

your still reaching, doesn't say that at all in the article

blasted_Sabre 03-30-2012 08:46 PM

NVM.

You'll see what you want to see

Nizdizzle 03-30-2012 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jamie1987 (Post 47008275)
you say this as if it were a fact, link? or did you pull this out of your ***, if Lou "didn't like" Kovalchuk he wouldn't have traded for him

Kovy has been a great fit for the Devils, easily the best player for us this year, he's bought into the system and became a better two way forward

no one forces Lou's hand, theres a reason why he's been the Devils GM since the 80's

Quote:

Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre (Post 47008701)
Um, what? Its pretty widely known. I didnt say he didnt want him. He didnt want him for the contract NJ ownership offered him.



http://blogs.northjersey.com/blogs/f..._part_of_nhl1/

Care to retract your statement about me talking out of my *** now?

http://208.116.9.205/10/content/7833/1.jpg

Lobstertainment 03-30-2012 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre (Post 47004907)
One thing I will never do is fault Burke for not offering insane long term deals. Say what you will about his signings, at least we arent stuck with them for a decade (or more).

No other teams are stuck with them and we get the B/C options for a year or two that do nothing.

blasted_Sabre 03-30-2012 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lobstertainment (Post 47011639)
No other teams are stuck with them and we get the B/C options for a year or two that do nothing.

Dipietro?

Give Kovulchuk, Richards, Carter another 6 or 7 years when they're on the decline and then ask their fanbases how they feel about paying a premium for an aging has been for another few years.

EDIT - How do you think Vancouver feels about having to deal with Luongo's massive question marks for the next decade?

GNOT 03-30-2012 09:01 PM

Restricting oneself to harsher more limiting negotiating conditions will never bring in the best players. These elite players are not dumb. Their skills and results have earned them the right to get the most the league can offer. Their careers are uncertain and short most of the times. It is their right to get the most security possible, especially when it is within the rules. Their is a clear price to pay for a Crosby, Malkin, etc. Don't want to pay it, well don't, just don't be shocked when the results reflect this type of behavior. Calling it the high ground is a joke. We pay the highest seat prices in the NHL. Guess what is good for the goose doesn't apply to the gander. This will be Burkes last summer as Leaf GM. Book it.

blasted_Sabre 03-30-2012 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GNOT (Post 47012403)
Restricting oneself to harsher more limiting negotiating conditions will never bring in the best players. These elite players are not dumb. Their skills and results have earned them the right to get the most the league can offer. Their careers are uncertain and short most of the times. It is their right to get the most security possible, especially when it is within the rules. Their is a clear price to pay for a Crosby, Malkin, etc. Don't want to pay it, well don't, just don't be shocked when the results reflect this type of behavior. Calling it the high ground is a joke. We pay the highest seat prices in the NHL. Guess what is good for the goose doesn't apply to the gander. This will be Burkes last summer as Leaf GM. Book it.

I fully expect the next CBA will have a term limit in it.

Quarter 03-30-2012 09:13 PM

But OP, you're really scolding him to limit his signings and acquisitions to shorter terms than 5 or 6 years? Has this board/fanbase seriously run out of things to complain about? Oh wait, this is Leafs Nation. I forgot that we'd complain about Kessel taping his socks with white tape instead of clear tape because it forces him to use up valuable strength before the game has even started...

Cogburn 03-31-2012 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre (Post 47011985)
EDIT - How do you think Vancouver feels about having to deal with Luongo's massive question marks for the next decade?

Save a few haters in our blue and green, pretty well. 29 wins, 920 save percentage and a 2.41 gaa isn't bad at all for the cap hit. The NTC and length I know are what you're referring too, but he's had great numbers with terrible teams (including our first few teams with Lu in net), and his records indicate he won't have a sudden nose dive in the quality of his play. Plus, out clauses at 5 and 7 years in if need be.

darrylsittler27 03-31-2012 01:12 AM

slap some lipstick on that pig...
 
Still dont want to pay the price for him.We wont win for years,just the fact of that matter.Luongo wont be the same here and do you really want to give up 2 lottery picks for him.Have we learned nothing from Neidermayer,Kessel trades?Short cuts wont work here,we are Toronto.And not only arent we not close,we are probably the 2nd or 3rd worst team in the nhl.Crosby couldnt save this team.

dirk41 03-31-2012 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre (Post 47005199)
Let me know in 12 years how hes playing.

:laugh:

He'll retire when his contract dips to $1,000,000 and the contract won't count against the cap.

binop7 03-31-2012 01:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre (Post 47013123)
I fully expect the next CBA will have a term limit in it.

I really doubt that.

darrylsittler27 03-31-2012 03:16 AM

Take out the Beauchmin trade..
 
And you have the worst team in the NHL,now that is progress.Here is another thought,if Burke did nothing,this team would be better off.And i conclusion your honour...In 2 years Kessel walks away for nothing!Yep everyone else is stupid but Komisarek = 5 million,Grabo is 5.5,Schenn is 3.5,Connolly is 4.75 and Armstrong is worth 3 million.He givess Wilson an extension because veryone else is stupid,then fires him.What is this an Abbot and Costello routine....

MorriPage 03-31-2012 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darrylsittler27 (Post 47027791)
What is this an Abbot and Costello routine....

No, Abbott and Costello were actually funny. This whole mess makes me want to punch puppies.

Durkin67 03-31-2012 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GNOT (Post 47001001)
Its over before it even begins. I mean next year. Burkie believes he knows best and operates under his own rules. Early trade deadline, check. Shorter contracts, check, and etc.

With all the other teams willing to offer elite players more years and stability and less pressure, why does anyone think anything will change next year. Even our goalie situation, which FINALLY seems to be on the radar, will not gain us a game changer.

Burke has handcuffed himself, why should a player get less from the leafs when eveywhere else will pay more and longer term (stability for the player, would you do it in their place).

Burke will change some pieces this summer, but nothing that will change the end result of the Burke era. These are dark times, Dougie is spinning in his bed.

Once Burke leaves, please let the next GM want to win games more than contract negotiations.



Burke believes that his 25+ years in the league gives him a certain level of expertise. I would tend to agree. And although he has a high level of autonomy, he has surrounded himself with an executive committee which is there to consult with, and offer insight, and even challenge him if they disagree. Thats a lot to assume on your part. His comments about a trade deadline freeze were to the effect that it was tabled and discussed with the front office. Doesn't sound like the workings of a power mad megalomaniac you're suggesting. And reasonable length contracts in order to rein in undue sense of entitlement instead of dropping a fortune on CBA circumventing deals that won't be honoured seems like a better way to do things over the long haul. The league agrees, apparently, which is why the Kovalchuk deal was overturned...

Your comments regarding the G situation is a head scratcher. Maybe its just the wording Im struggling with. Unless you've got a crystal ball, thats just conjecture on your part. You have no way of predicting what Burke will do this summer to address goaltending. The experts all agree that the results of the playoffs will factor greatly in who is available in the off season and who is not.


Burke has handcuffed himself---how, exactly--by NOT HANDCUFFING HIMSELF to a ridiculous contract or two which could ultimately cost the team a shot at building a legit contender? Thats a stretch.

And to suggest that further damaging a fragile franchise by fracturing it even more through the act of once again replacing the front office is the exact mentality that has kept this organization grounded for decades.

Is Burke omnipotent? not at all. Infallible? Nope. But he's none of what you suggest in this rant either.

1927 03-31-2012 09:17 AM

It is good that Brian Burke does not give out long-term contracts. The Devils are given as an example with Kovalchuk, but people should look at the Brian Rolston deal in 2008 free agency where the Devils paid an aging forward $5,062,500 cap hit for four years to become a mid 30 point player for the entire contract.

The Devils were desperate to get rid of Rolston's cap hit and luckily the Islanders were willing to take on the salary for cap floor reasons. Will history repeat itself for the Devils in 10 years time? We will have to see but the odds are favorable where this might be the case for a declining Kovalchuk at his cap hit.


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