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-   -   Moving Jake Gardiner...To forward (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1149633)

Stephen 03-30-2012 07:07 PM

Moving Jake Gardiner...To forward
 
...upfront. Gardiner has only been a defenseman from what I understand for a couple of years, and it sometimes shows with his mental breakdowns on the blueline. As a swift skating, big rangy guy, could it potentially be worth our while to re-convert him into a centerman at some point? He certainly has the offensive instincts, skating ability, and freeing him from the defensive could give us some strength down the middle. This might be possible if we essentially replace him with Justin Schultz on defense through free agency. Just an idea.

Espher 03-30-2012 07:11 PM

I would rather consider repairing him with Schultz versus converting him. We did try him at forward at one point and, though only a one-game sample, he really did look out of his element.

I'm not sure how easy the reverse-conversion would be and if he has the talent/grit to fill our needs at centre.

Beleafer4 03-30-2012 07:11 PM

I remember wilson played gardiner on the 4th line earlier and he wasnt very effective, he does a much better job as a d-man

And all d-men go through mental breakdowns.

Eyedea 03-30-2012 07:12 PM

We wouldn't be replacing Gardiner with Schultz. They'd both be paired together.

Joseppi 03-30-2012 07:12 PM

Gardiner has already proven himself a capable defenseman with flashes of brilliance. He's young and has room to improve.

This is a guy who could possibly round into a #2 defenseman (solid top 4 at the least), and you want to replace him with a free agent coming out of college?

edit: Oh, convert him to forward. I don't think so, Tim.

Al14 03-30-2012 07:12 PM

No!

Schultz doesn't sign with the Leafs if Jake, his good buddy, is traded.

Schultz asks to be traded too, when, and if, Jake is traded after he signs.

Please think.

Twix 03-30-2012 07:14 PM

http://cache.ohinternet.com/images/2...here_super.jpg

Eyedea 03-30-2012 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al14 (Post 47003819)
No!

Schultz doesn't sign with the Leafs if Jake, his good buddy, is traded.

Schultz asks to be traded too, when, and if, Jake is traded after he signs.

Please think.

I don't see anything mentioning Gardiner being traded in the OP.

Igy 03-30-2012 07:16 PM

Do not like.

KingBuzzo 03-30-2012 07:17 PM

Sure. Against Montreal in our last game. We need to lose. But otherwise it's not a good idea. The way he slows the game down on the back end is unreal for a rookie. Sure he makes some mistakes, but that's as to be expected. I just don't see the need to make a positional transition when we've got guys like Colborne coming up soon. And with this summer coming up, I think Burke is finally going to make that trade for a top slotted guy up the middle.

Al14 03-30-2012 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eyedea (Post 47003983)
I don't see anything mentioning Gardiner being traded in the OP.

I'll read OP again then.

The title reads moving... then he mentions converting him into a centreman. Does he mean trade him for a centreman??? Who knows.

KingBuzzo 03-30-2012 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al14 (Post 47004357)
Read OP again then.

Sounds like you didn't read it at all. This isn't about trading Gardiner, it's about converting him to center.

Baba Ganoush 03-30-2012 07:20 PM

moving Gardiner up front would be a horrible move i think.

he has the patience, vision and speed to control the pace of a game from the back end, and he's going to be a VERY good top 4 Dman (possibly top pairing imo) for a long, long time.

Leaf Rocket 03-30-2012 07:23 PM

dont see it happening.

Stephen 03-30-2012 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beleafer4 (Post 47003653)
I remember wilson played gardiner on the 4th line earlier and he wasnt very effective, he does a much better job as a d-man

And all d-men go through mental breakdowns.

True, I'm not suggesting he's not fit to be a defender, just saying he's hardly polished at that position, so there might be some developmental flexibility.

Eyedea 03-30-2012 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Al14 (Post 47004357)
I'll read OP again then.

The title reads moving... then he mentions converting him into a centreman. Does he mean trade him for a centreman??? Who knows.

We know. He said reconverting as in he was one before (I believe in high school). Moving was just a play on words because of all the frantic leaf fans wanting to blow up the team.

ITM 03-30-2012 07:30 PM

Having a young, gifted skating defenceman who demonstrates poise, creativity and patience with the puck is a luxury you protect. He looks like he has 50 to 60 potential and is exactly the kind of piece you retain except for an overpayment,and then only accept if something comparable is in the system.

Elite puck moving defencemen are no less valuable than a big center. Their both intrinsic to success, so...no, I wouldnt want him converted to center.

If the perception is Kessel was a bad trade (I don't because I view it from the time and consideration the deal was made) then the Gardiner/Lupul deal more than made up for it. Kid's going to be good.

Here's hoping Schultz signs to be with his buddy.

KuleminFan41 03-30-2012 07:30 PM

No he will not turn into Wendel Clark

Rockinz 03-30-2012 07:32 PM

nah...

RogerRoeper* 03-30-2012 07:41 PM

Why is it that whenever the Leafs have A PMD-man the fans want to move them upfront?

I heard that about Kaberle for years.

ITM 03-30-2012 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RogerRoeper (Post 47006001)
Why is it that whenever the Leafs have A PMD-man the fans want to move them upfront?

I heard that about Kaberle for years.

It's odd, especially in a city like Toronto that hasn't been blessed with an overabundance of homegrown PMDs...They're a rare breed, and Gardiner could be as good as any of them.

He actually reminds me of Larry Murphy, except this kid has Niedermeyer legs.

Baba Ganoush 03-30-2012 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ITM (Post 47006253)
It's odd, especially in a city like Toronto that hasn't been blessed with an overabundance of homegrown PMDs...They're a rare breed, and Gardiner could be as good as any of them.

He actually reminds me of Larry Murphy, except this kid has Niedermeyer legs.

he reminds me of Niedermayer more than anything, 100%. if he turns out half as good as him i'll be very happy.

ponder 03-30-2012 07:50 PM

HELLLLLLLLLLLL NO! Like we need more wingers, Gardiner is not bad at all defensively for a rookie playing on a team that is weak/porous in general. Brent Burns made a similar transition, in Burns' rookie year he was actually WAY worse defensively than Gardiner is now, but he's slowly but surely been getting better and better in his own end to the point where he's a very good top pairing guy now, I think Gardiner will follow a similar progression. He's a bit over-aggressive at time, could make the safe, positional plays more often, but you can say this about virtually any rookie dman. IMO he looks pretty natural in his own end, when you consider he used to be a forward he's extra impressive.

With Gardiner's elite skating and very good general poise the potential is there for him to be really, really good defensively, despite the rookie mistakes he makes. Most importantly, he's a good 1-on-1 defender already; while guys like Phaneuf, Schenn, Komi, etc. will get regularly owned 1-on-1, even when they're in position, Gardiner is actually pretty tough to beat Gardiner straight up. I'd say Gardiner is probably are best 1-on-1 defender. This is something that's very tough to teach IMO, but VERY important, a big part of what makes guys like Lidstrom, Suter, Girardi, Keith, Hamhuis, etc. so good defensively is that they're really hard to beat 1-on-1. In any defensive system you have to be able to stop your man, if your positioning is great but you can still be easily blown by/dangled 1-on-1, then the team defense is going to break down constantly as teammates struggle to recover for you. Gardiner shows a lot of 1-on-1 potential, which is a big part of what is so exciting about him.

Basically, he's already decent defensively (especially for a rookie who used to play forward), with lots of defensive upside. Even if he tops out as just a solid but not special defensive player, he could still be pretty damn good offensively. I have no doubt that his floor is a good 2-way 2nd pairing dman, and I can definitely see him as a good 2-way 1st pairing dman. There is literally no chance that I'd want to convert him back to a forward.

Durkin67 03-30-2012 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 (Post 47005261)
No he will not turn into Wendel Clark

When was Clark a centre?

Interesting notion, by the OP though...he does have exceptional wheels, vision, and the ideal size. But I have to agree; if Schultz signs in TOR, they likely end up paired together...

Nasty Nazem 03-30-2012 09:46 PM

Sounds about as good as converting Phaneuf into a powerforward winger.

Not happening and it shouldn't even be a consideration.


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