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-   -   Wings Legace believes the season is off (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=115050)

swflyers8* 11-24-2004 09:03 AM

Wings Legace believes the season is off
 
TSN

I hate to break it to you, Manny, but I would pay to see my farm team in Flyers uniforms. They are on a 14 game winning streak right now and they play exciting hockey and not the clutch and grab crap your boys play, so I'll pay!

:mad:

shadoz19 11-24-2004 09:22 AM

I won't pay NHL prices to watch minor league players, and I sure as hell won't drive 3 hours to watch the Griffins.

shakes 11-24-2004 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HungryforHockey25
TSN

I hate to break it to you, Manny, but I would pay to see my farm team in Flyers uniforms. They are on a 14 game winning streak right now and they play exciting hockey and not the clutch and grab crap your boys play, so I'll pay!

:mad:

I could be wrong, but doesn't the minor league team for the Flyers play right across the street from the big club? And if that's correct, does that mean you would rather pay NHL ticket prices than AHL ticket prices to watch essentially the same quality of game? I honestly don't think the majority of people would, especially in most US markets. Some cities can barely get people out to watch the real product, why would they do it for replacement players?

Peter 11-24-2004 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shakes
I could be wrong, but doesn't the minor league team for the Flyers play right across the street from the big club? And if that's correct, does that mean you would rather pay NHL ticket prices than AHL ticket prices to watch essentially the same quality of game? I honestly don't think the majority of people would, especially in most US markets. Some cities can barely get people out to watch the real product, why would they do it for replacement players?

Let's be honest here though...don't you think the NHL, IF it uses replacement players and gets the CBA they want (by way of impasse)...don't you think the average ticket price will drop??

I know some who say it won't but from what I understand it will...and considerably. They will have to if they want to attract fans back to the game after being off for so long.

So count me in, I would definetly pay to see replacement players play at GM Place -as long as ticket prices were reduced.

I cheer for the team not necessarily the players.

guinness 11-24-2004 09:43 AM

"We've given them (the owners) offers, they've said no and they haven't come back (with any counteroffers). All he (Bettman) talks about is salary cap, salary cap. He does not want to negotiate."

Legace reinterated the NHLPA won't accept a salary cap.
He also told the paper that he felt fans wouldn't welcome replacement players.


This kind of statement always kills me, the players say that the owners don't want to negotiate, yet neither do the players. Both sides will have to compremise or you can just kiss the NHL goodbye.

And I'll watch replacement players, just maybe not in the NHL, but in the forms of NCAA and AHL hockey if it gets shown on TV.

Peter 11-24-2004 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guinness
"We've given them (the owners) offers, they've said no and they haven't come back (with any counteroffers). All he (Bettman) talks about is salary cap, salary cap. He does not want to negotiate."

Legace reinterated the NHLPA won't accept a salary cap.
He also told the paper that he felt fans wouldn't welcome replacement players.


This kind of statement always kills me, the players say that the owners don't want to negotiate, yet neither do the players. Both sides will have to compremise or you can just kiss the NHL goodbye.

And I'll watch replacement players, just maybe not in the NHL, but in the forms of NCAA and AHL hockey if it gets shown on TV.

Don't get me wrong here - I am fully behind the owners...but Legace has a bit of a point. The ball should be in the leagues court. The league gave 6, very short, proposals...the NHLPA came back with one which the league turned down so...the ball is in the leagues court.

I think the league should just pick 3 out of the 6 proposals, expand on them, and hand them over to the NHLPA to look at. It is frustrating that they aren't talking at all.

swflyers8* 11-24-2004 09:50 AM

Quote:

And if that's correct, does that mean you would rather pay NHL ticket prices than AHL ticket prices to watch essentially the same quality of game?
Yes, I would. Strange as it sounds. These kids would be playing for what's on the front and not what's on the back. They would be playing to show everyone that the NHL should move on with them. I'd pay either way.

Right now, all the players are for what's on the back of the jersey, not the front and not for the fans. So I would in a heartbeat.

Bring in the replacement players. I'd bet that players would start coming home and only the millionaires are left in Europe. BRING THEM IN NOW!

membleypeg 11-24-2004 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HungryforHockey25
TSN

I hate to break it to you, Manny, but I would pay to see my farm team in Flyers uniforms. They are on a 14 game winning streak right now and they play exciting hockey and not the clutch and grab crap your boys play, so I'll pay!

:mad:

I will join you at the game. There will be some good young players that will get a chance to show there stuff during this period. You can be sure that they will give 100% to show management that they deserve the perks of the NHL. Also, half of the team will be NHL players that crawl back to the league and desert their comrades.

SENSible1* 11-24-2004 10:00 AM

The NHL will have to reduce ticket prices for replacement hockey.

However, they will have far lower salary commitments so it will help offset the loss in revenue.

shadoz19 11-24-2004 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HungryforHockey25
Yes, I would. Strange as it sounds. These kids would be playing for what's on the front and not what's on the back. They would be playing to show everyone that the NHL should move on with them. I'd pay either way.

Right now, all the players are for what's on the back of the jersey, not the front and not for the fans. So I would in a heartbeat.

Bring in the replacement players. I'd bet that players would start coming home and only the millionaires are left in Europe. BRING THEM IN NOW!

I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the majority of fans (especially American fans) will not pay to watch replacement players.

Sanderson 11-24-2004 10:13 AM

I think many people would watch replacement players.
These guys might not have the same all-round abilities, but they do have certain strenghts.

You might lose the elite offensive talent, although some NHLers could come back to the league as well, but there are some pretty spectacular players left, who don't play in the NHL because of size or bad defense.

Watching someone like Brandon Reid surely is more exciting than watching all these third or fourth line grinders.
You still have speed, hits, big saves and highlight-reel goals, it's just the names and the elite talent that is missing. If you drop the prices, people should come and watch it.

Taranis_24 11-24-2004 10:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoz19
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the majority of fans (especially American fans) will not pay to watch replacement players.

And your an expert on what American fans want, how? I agree that they will not fill to capacity at 18,000 but I could see where they could get in 7K - 10K to come to the games, and even more for high rivalry games such as Philadelphia/Rangers. You can count me in as an American fan that will pay to watch replacement players.

Chili 11-24-2004 10:20 AM

I watched the Qmjhl/Russian selects games the last two nights and in my opinion, the entertainment value was higher than most NHL games I've seen the last couple of years. There was an excellent flow to the play, with numerous scoring chances at both ends of the ice as well as some great hits and fine goaltending. This Alex Radulov kid looks like a special player.

The NHL and NHLPA are digging their own graves, not only with the lockout/lack of talks but with the quality of the game the last few years.

This free time is opening eyes to the alternatives.

The more pig headed they are, the more they could hurt themselves in the long run.

shadoz19 11-24-2004 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taranis_24
And your an expert on what American fans want, how? I agree that they will not fill to capacity at 18,000 but I could see where they could get in 7K - 10K to come to the games, and even more for high rivalry games such as Philadelphia/Rangers. You can count me in as an American fan that will pay to watch replacement players.

I never claimed to be an expert. Do you think the league will survive very long only filling arenas to 50% or less of capacity? I know rivalries won't even be close to the same. The Wings-Avs rivalry wouldn't be anywhere near the same without the players that help to make up the rivalry. I think you have already said yourself that you will be in the minority.

shadoz19 11-24-2004 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chili

The NHL and NHLPA are digging their own graves, not only with the lockout/lack of talks but with the quality of the game the last few years.

No doubt about it.

guinness 11-24-2004 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taranis_24
And your an expert on what American fans want, how? I agree that they will not fill to capacity at 18,000 but I could see where they could get in 7K - 10K to come to the games, and even more for high rivalry games such as Philadelphia/Rangers. You can count me in as an American fan that will pay to watch replacement players.

Outside of the big NHL markets in the US, most people don't pay to see the NHL as it is. So instead of your local NHL club having 1-2 stars, it'll have 0. Where's the draw for the fans of Tampa, Carolina, Columbus to watch guys like Nash, Cole, or St. Louis replaced by no-names?

In Detroit, I'd be shocked if they got the JLA half full to watch replacement players, there are lots of other teams people can go see around here; the Mechanics in Fraser, Wayne State plays in Plymouth, U of M and MSU play at the JLA a few times a year, and the GLI is coming up next month. That's probably all in a 30 mile radius. Ann Arbor and East Lansing aren't that far away, as is GR, though I wouldn't drive to any of those cities, either they are on TV or I just don't follow the CCHA much.

SENSible1* 11-24-2004 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoz19
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the majority of fans (especially American fans) will not pay to watch replacement players.

I hate to break it to you, but if the price is right and the hockey is competitive/entertaining enough people will pay to watch replacement hockey. Losing the PR war, without even trying, has been just another blunder by Goodenow and the PA.

shadoz19 11-24-2004 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
I hate to break it to you, but if the price is right and the hockey is competitive/entertaining enough people will pay to watch replacement hockey. Losing the PR war, without even trying, has been just another blunder by Goodenow and the PA.

Read Guinness's post. That says it all.

SENSible1* 11-24-2004 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoz19
Read Guinness's post. That says it all.

Merely his opinion of future events.

If the price is right and the hockey is competitive enough fans will come out to make it feasible. That is all the owners need.

As long as the public is solidly behind the owners, the NHLPA will be in trouble.

Owen Wilson 11-24-2004 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guinness
Outside of the big NHL markets in the US, most people don't pay to see the NHL as it is. So instead of your local NHL club having 1-2 stars, it'll have 0. Where's the draw for the fans of Tampa, Carolina, Columbus to watch guys like Nash, Cole, or St. Louis replaced by no-names?

In Detroit, I'd be shocked if they got the JLA half full to watch replacement players, there are lots of other teams people can go see around here; the Mechanics in Fraser, Wayne State plays in Plymouth, U of M and MSU play at the JLA a few times a year, and the GLI is coming up next month. That's probably all in a 30 mile radius. Ann Arbor and East Lansing aren't that far away, as is GR, though I wouldn't drive to any of those cities, either they are on TV or I just don't follow the CCHA much.

While I agree with what your saying, you have to realize that if the league starts back up with replacement players, watch how many nhler's cross the picket line, eventually they will all cross. and yes, I really do believe that.

guinness 11-24-2004 11:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Owen Wilson
While I agree with what your saying, you have to realize that if the league starts back up with replacement players, watch how many nhler's cross the picket line, eventually they will all cross. and yes, I really do believe that.

That's true, even a few NHL'ers have said so. And other than the guys that are already millionairs or are NHLPA reps, most rather still be playing. If they can afford to play in Europe for less, they can afford to play in the NHL for less. It doesn't change that the owners are ultimately responsible for this mess, but both sides must hammer out a deal.

As for replacement players and getting the game competive. I'm all for that, the World Cup was some of the best hockey I've seen in ages. If the league would stop tampering with the rules, or call if the refs called like they should, the game would be a lot better.

And I also blame overexpansion for watering down the talent level. When you've got the best of the best playing against each other, you've got some good hockey, ie the World Cup, Olympics. I think some of the other leagues have become watered down too, look how low scoring the NBA has gotten and the lack of fundamentals or the extreme parity in the NFL.

X0ssbar 11-24-2004 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoz19
I hate to be the one to break this to you, but the majority of fans (especially American fans) will not pay to watch replacement players.

The majority of American NHL fans won't know the difference between replacements and current NHLers. Heck most of em only know two hockey players anyways - Gretzky and Lemiuex.

Message to owners: reduce ticket prices (and beer prices ;) ) and bring on the replacements - fans will come out and current NHLers will cross. The Prongers, Guerins and Marchants of the world can stay on the sideline for all I care.

shadoz19 11-24-2004 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Top Shelf
The majority of American NHL fans won't know the difference between replacements and current NHLers. Heck most of em only know two hockey players anyways - Gretzky and Lemiuex.

Message to owners: reduce ticket prices (and beer prices ;) ) and bring on the replacements - fans will come out and current NHLers will cross. The Prongers, Guerins and Marchants of the world can stay on the sideline for all I care.

Those that don't know anyone but Gretzky and Lemieux, don't watch hockey as is. I doubt that reduced prices will change that much. Here's a question for everyone who say replacement players will work: Why isn't the AHL, OHL, etc. reporting big gains in attendance with with no NHL???

Winger98 11-24-2004 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thunderstruck
I hate to break it to you, but if the price is right and the hockey is competitive/entertaining enough people will pay to watch replacement hockey. Losing the PR war, without even trying, has been just another blunder by Goodenow and the PA.

For the price to be right, I think it would have to be very low. For fans who follow the game, I expect them to look at it and say "these are minor league players, I'm only going to pay minor league prices." And for the casual fan who didn't care about hockey before this labor mess, it'll have to be super low to bring them in out of curiosity. Maybe movie ticket price low.

While the owners would have less money wrapped up in player costs, travel costs would still be a factor, as would all of the other hockey related costs. I would question whether replacement players would be worth it financially in the long run.

Would it break the union?
Would it eventually build a fanbase comparable to the standards of even last season?
Or would it further alienate the sport to the population as a whole and convince the majority of quality NHLers to just go overseas?

NEOhioHockeyFan 11-24-2004 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadoz19
Why isn't the AHL, OHL, etc. reporting big gains in attendance with with no NHL???

Simple... because they aren't in the same areas as the NHL clubs (with a few exceptions), to attract those fans. I'm in Cleveland... who do you expect the Barons to attract? People from Columbus aren't going to be headed our way for a hockey fix. I can bet though, they'd be willing to see some hockey at their own arena, regardless of who it is. I will agree though, the prices will have to be reduced, but I would assume that would be preferrable to not having anyone play and making no money.


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