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-   -   The "Rising Monster" (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1159765)

ILikeItILoveIt 04-09-2012 01:27 PM

The "Rising Monster"
 
Interesting quote from the Detroit Message Board:

I think winning this series is more important to our future than just winning normal series.
If we beat the Preds, the team could be blown away again. 1st round exit, and maybe Suter sees greener grass somewhere else. Maybe Radulov doesn't come back. Weber leaves year after. Maybe their deadline deal UFA's won't come back. That would mean easier Nashville again in the becoming years before they raise the next generation on top again.
If they win and succeed this year, it's very probable the team wants to stay together and will become a heck of a contender for years to come.
So, we have to kill the rising monster now before it's too late.
Wings in 6 and sign Suter at next summer
.”

Is 2012 another 2007 in the making? It’s the last time we finished 4th, had 110 points, loaded up with a marquee player down the stretch, and felt like we had the roster to win the Cup. We won Game 1, then lost 4 straight to the Sharks and Leopold blew up the team.

The overall health of the Preds is much different now, but we were feeling pretty good about ourselves back then too.

I don’t think we’d have 2007-esque blow up if we go one-and-done, but if the following happens:
  • Suter and AK46 don’t resign
  • Rads plays in Russia until he’s a UFA
  • We don’t sign Gaustad and Gill
  • And Webs signs another 1 year contract to get him to UFA-ville

We will not be the team we would be for the next few years if:
  • Suter and AK46 sign, and Webs signs an extension
  • We sign Gill for $2mm a year for 2 years
  • Rads signs long term

Throw in the natural growth of Smith, Wilson, Ellis, Josi, and Lindbach and we WOULD be the “Rising Monster” and be a true Cup contender for the next 5 years. There may be more at stake here than meets the eye.

Bottom line, if we make a deep run, there will be excuse for not signing with this team besides just not wanting to be in Nashville anymore, which none of the suspects are saying. It’s always been about management commitment financially and obtaining the right pieces.

Nashville has the lowest salary of any team in the Playoffs. We could sign the key players we already have and stay below the cap. We sold out 25 of 41 home games, plus who knows how many playoffs games. The stage is set for Nashville to become the “Rising Monster”. A true PREDATOR!

As if we needed more pressure on this series.

cju1979 04-09-2012 02:21 PM

No pressure. We are the underdog STILL. Let's effing DO THIS!

lstcyr 04-09-2012 02:52 PM

I just don't understand the logic. The only reason the Preds don't beat the Red Wings is that the players don't play well enough. At this point in time, I would think everything the owners and management can do has been done. If we lose in the first round and someone leaves, there's really no excuse for blaming anyone but the players.

preds1 04-09-2012 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lstcyr (Post 47618629)
I just don't understand the logic. The only reason the Preds don't beat the Red Wings is that the players don't play well enough. At this point in time, I would think everything the owners and management can do has been done. If we lose in the first round and someone leaves, there's really no excuse for blaming anyone but the players.

Agree. There are no excuses this year.

lstcyr 04-09-2012 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by preds1 (Post 47619215)
Agree. There are no excuses this year.

Thanks but my point was that there should be no excuses for someone leaving and blaming management or ownership because we lose in the first round. As always, it's possible that we do lose and because the Red Wings play better (that tasted bad). But then, if Suter leaves, it's because he wants to.

cju1979 04-09-2012 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lstcyr (Post 47619565)
Thanks but my point was that there should be no excuses for someone leaving and blaming management or ownership because we lose in the first round. As always, it's possible that we do lose and because the Red Wings play better (that tasted bad). But then, if Suter leaves, it's because he wants to.

I don't want to turn this into another Suter thread but the way he plays sometimes, I don't mind, as long as we get some heart and soul out of the deal.

And just wait for Wed and Friday...its gonna bee one loud @$$ Monster at the Bridge.

glenngineer 04-09-2012 03:59 PM

Regardless of what happens, there is no one to blame. The team has been built properly by Poile and ownership. Trotz has done a solid job behind the bench this year and not letting the team get into major ruts. The team itself has played well since the early swoon. If they lose, maybe we just lose to a team playing better. Sometimes that happens. There are so many ifs and possibilities. I just want to watch a great series and whoever wins moves on to the second round. We can figure out what happens from there.

Top 6 Spaling 04-09-2012 05:47 PM

I absolutely agree with the premise of this. If the Preds can lock up our core (Rads, AK, Suter, Weber this off-season), we can be true competitors for years. Here is who I would call our "core", assuming those 4 resign for 4+ years, and as long as they stay, we can find people to fill in the other spots.

Rads-Smith-AK (assuming Smith continues to develop well)
Erat-Fisher-SK
xx-Legwand-Hornqvist
xx-xx-xx

Weber-Suter
Josi-Blum
xx-xx

Rinne
xx

We can find plugs for the rest of the spots easily even if Wilson, Ellis, Hali, Spaling, etc. all end up leaving somehow. The point is, if we can carry this momentum to re-signing everyone, we can compete for a long time. If we can't, we could have another 2007 on our hands, albeit a lesser one.

ILikeItILoveIt 04-09-2012 05:54 PM

1 more major step for management awaits ......
 
Agree with the no excuses theory. For the first time since maybe 2007, we are as good as anyone and can win the Cup on talent. If we lose, it's because we didn't play up to our capabilities. In the past, we had to play up to our capabilities just to have a 40-60 chance. In other words, we could play our best and lose. This year, if we play our best, we win.

That said, we are currently 16th in salary in the 16 team tournament. We're roughly $13mm under the Cap. Bringing in players at the deadline only amounts to a small hit for this year considering the amount of games they're paid for.

The last great barrier to be broken would be to spend above the mid-point, giving up some rev sharing, and spending another $10mm to sign these players that have made us better to contracts that have us paying them all year and driving up our salary number.

Right now, we're still straddling the mid-point versus cap team line. If we decide we must continue to field our best team from the mid-point and have an internally imposed cap, then players like Webs/Suts/Rads etc can make a legit argument to leave.

Mgmt can make a legit argument that you can't sustain a Cap-level budget in Smashville (pop. 17,113) even if you sell all the games out. Lack of real TV money and 2k-to-3k less capacity than the bigger arenas don't let the numbers work. Not saying that's the case, nor am I saying mgmt won't pay up (they've insinuated they would). The players just need to see them actually do it.

Once that final piece is in place, there will be zero chance of a "blow-up" of this core team. It may not blow up even if they stay at the mid-point or slightly higher.

The worst formula is 1-and-done + self-imposed mid-point cap = Suts/Webs/Rads to Wings/Canucks/Ufa.

torero 04-09-2012 05:58 PM

I see the Predators as the rising monster.

If Sutter leaves, that is a 3.5 mio to throw onto another quality blue line player.

The team is not Suter, or Weber or ... . The team is the team with its management and with Trotz and other crew members + their global situation.

Some teams are just falling, with poor prospects and a salary cap that is by far reached and leaves little room, they are tied with long term contracts with some old players and they just loose more and more games.
On the other hand you have a team like the Preds that are loaded with high level prospects, good players under contract, a lot of space in the salary cap, and winning more and more games.

dulzhok 04-09-2012 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lstcyr (Post 47618629)
I just don't understand the logic. The only reason the Preds don't beat the Red Wings is that the players don't play well enough.

I don't agree with this. Datysuk, Zetterberg, Lidstrom, Howard, Franzen, Holmstrom, Betruzzi and ton of experienced depth make the Wings as good as anyone if they play up to THEIR potential. They have dealt with a lot of injuries this year. They are mostly healthy and they have more playoff experience and wins than anyone. There are lots of reasons why they could beat us.

I'm not saying they will win but certainly they have the means to.

I don't really like predictions in POs, especially in a close series like this. It's hockey, anything can happen. We're both talented teams. Lets play the game and see what happens.

But sure, I think this off-season is crucial to the team taking the next step to elite.

ThirdManIn 04-09-2012 06:34 PM

If Weber, Suter, Radulov, AK, SK, etc truly want to be on a competitive team that has a chance to win for years to come then why wouldn't they all re-sign? Just because we don't win a first round series against a pretty good Detroit team?

If we lose in the first round and anyone leaves it will be pretty obvious that they just didn't want to sign here.

predfan98 04-09-2012 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ILikeItILoveIt (Post 47628061)
Agree with the no excuses theory. For the first time since maybe 2007, we are as good as anyone and can win the Cup on talent. If we lose, it's because we didn't play up to our capabilities. In the past, we had to play up to our capabilities just to have a 40-60 chance. In other words, we could play our best and lose. This year, if we play our best, we win.

That said, we are currently 16th in salary in the 16 team tournament. We're roughly $13mm under the Cap. Bringing in players at the deadline only amounts to a small hit for this year considering the amount of games they're paid for.

The last great barrier to be broken would be to spend above the mid-point, giving up some rev sharing, and spending another $10mm to sign these players that have made us better to contracts that have us paying them all year and driving up our salary number.

Right now, we're still straddling the mid-point versus cap team line. If we decide we must continue to field our best team from the mid-point and have an internally imposed cap, then players like Webs/Suts/Rads etc can make a legit argument to leave.

Mgmt can make a legit argument that you can't sustain a Cap-level budget in Smashville (pop. 17,113) even if you sell all the games out. Lack of real TV money and 2k-to-3k less capacity than the bigger arenas don't let the numbers work. Not saying that's the case, nor am I saying mgmt won't pay up (they've insinuated they would). The players just need to see them actually do it.

Once that final piece is in place, there will be zero chance of a "blow-up" of this core team. It may not blow up even if they stay at the mid-point or slightly higher.

The worst formula is 1-and-done + self-imposed mid-point cap = Suts/Webs/Rads to Wings/Canucks/Ufa.

I don't buy this cap $ argument..... Pekka is going up 3.5 next year, Suter by3.5 at least if he stays... There is $7 million right there.

And here are the players due increases.....andrei K, sergei K, colin wilson, radulov...

and it doesn't even include gill, gaustad, tootoo........

we're only straddling the mid cap point to leave room for those players...

if they want to leave, they want to leave, it isn't because there wasn't the money...

that's an old tired argument that I just don't buy

It is now up to the players.....we've seen them beat the wings and know that they can..... they just have to want this as a team and execute.... all of them. All the pieces are here.

Roman Yoshi 04-09-2012 07:19 PM

Hockey is just as much a mental game as it is physical. Losing in the first round, while we can claim it is against a good detroit team, is going to kill our momentum and probably force some players (like suter) to question if we can actually be elite even if it isn't fair to say that.

Winning means everything. Beating Detroit in the first round could raise this team to new heights mentally and for our reputation as a franchise, but a loss could set us back for a couple years as we once again don the mantel of "good but not good enough to get passed the first round"

adsfan 04-09-2012 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cju1979 (Post 47616935)
No pressure. We are the underdog STILL. Let's effing DO THIS!

No, I think this is the first time that Nashville is not the underdog.

Legionnaire11 04-09-2012 08:55 PM

I still think the Preds are the underdog. Maybe if it were a 1/8 matchup or 2/7 where the Preds had a 10-15 point better record than the Wings. But they were even throughout the season, the Wings had that ridiculous home win streak, and they have the experience and history on their side as well. Even if the talent on paper is even, and the Preds have home ice, they are still the underdog.

One more advantage for the Wings IMO since they will try to play the underdog in their locker room, a position they haven't been in since '95

PredsV82 04-09-2012 09:30 PM

as I said in the series thread, I believe this is the 'tipping point' for our franchise.

If we make the WCF's or the SCF's, I can't imagine anyone wanting to leave this team, since the future would be extremely bright given how much youth we have backing up the core.

and even if a primma donna did leave(yes I am looking at you Ryan...) we would have to be one of the most attractive FA destinations and we would have the money to spend on a replacement.

However, if we go one and done, and all the UFA's leave and Rads heads back to Russia, next year will become a desperation season, and if we don't have a big year next season either, then its probably a full on retool geared toward the youngsters...

so lets just win a couple rounds and make it all academic, mmkay?

Gnashville 04-09-2012 09:38 PM

I'm already accepted that Suter is gone no matter what. But we'll continue on with Rinne and could get a King's ransom from someone for Weber. It'll take a while but we'll be OK.

golfmade 04-09-2012 09:56 PM

As far as I'm concerned we're still the underdogs against the Wings until we can beat them in the playoffs.

This just happens to be the year we'll do just that.

Fuelled by Passion 04-09-2012 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thirdmanin (Post 47630013)
if weber, suter, radulov, ak, sk, etc truly want to be on a competitive team that has a chance to win for years to come then why wouldn't they all re-sign? Just because we don't win a first round series against a pretty good detroit team?

+100

VFL615* 04-10-2012 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PredsV82 (Post 47639759)
as I said in the series thread, I believe this is the 'tipping point' for our franchise.

If we make the WCF's or the SCF's, I can't imagine anyone wanting to leave this team, since the future would be extremely bright given how much youth we have backing up the core.

and even if a primma donna did leave(yes I am looking at you Ryan...) we would have to be one of the most attractive FA destinations and we would have the money to spend on a replacement.

However, if we go one and done, and all the UFA's leave and Rads heads back to Russia, next year will become a desperation season, and if we don't have a big year next season either, then its probably a full on retool geared toward the youngsters...

so lets just win a couple rounds and make it all academic, mmkay?

Let's just worry about getting through Detroit. Pump the brakes folks. This is one of the best times in Preds history and we are already looking ahead two months. Enjoy it and keep the *** red out of the Bridge.

Drake744 04-10-2012 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gnashville (Post 47640319)
I'm already accepted that Suter is gone no matter what. But we'll continue on with Rinne and could get a King's ransom from someone for Weber. It'll take a while but we'll be OK.

haha if we make the WCF or SCF and Suter still leaves he's such a liar. He'll be the first good ex-Pred to be booed by us.

Roman Yoshi 04-10-2012 12:11 PM

This series, to me, is make or break. Winning it will have huge rewards. Losing it could have horrific consequences to our perception around the league, psychologically damning to our players (not just Suter) and a serious problem for our fanbase.

As far as must wins go, all other games prior to this one are simple scrimmages. This is the real deal.

VFL615* 04-10-2012 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joetimo (Post 47662919)
This series, to me, is make or break. Winning it will have huge rewards. Losing it could have horrific consequences to our perception around the league, psychologically damning to our players (not just Suter) and a serious problem for our fanbase.

As far as must wins go, all other games prior to this one are simple scrimmages. This is the real deal.

Agree. Winning the Detroit series can give this team tremendous momentum and confidence. Almost winning like against the Hawks two years ago and it could lead to serious setbacks.
I am sure coach and management understand it and i do not think we could be in any better position to take that "huge step" that this franchise has positioned itself to take.

quoth the Raven 04-10-2012 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joetimo (Post 47662919)
This series, to me, is make or break. Winning it will have huge rewards. Losing it could have horrific consequences to our perception around the league, psychologically damning to our players (not just Suter) and a serious problem for our fanbase.

As far as must wins go, all other games prior to this one are simple scrimmages. This is the real deal.

Agree 1,000%. Well said.


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