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hairylikebear 04-10-2012 11:35 AM

Rate Your GM!
 
Joey Joe Joe has been in power for essentially three years now, so I figure it's as good of a time as any to step back and try to objectively evaluate his performance. The way I see it, this UFA/RFA period will mark the true start of Gaglardi's influence, so it makes sense to place the cutoff before any of those new contracts get signed. Below is a handy dandy timeline summarizing just about everything he's done (barring accidental errors/omissions,) for your consideration.

http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...imeline_01.jpghttp://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...imeline_02.jpg
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...imeline_03.jpghttp://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...imeline_04.jpg
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...imeline_05.jpghttp://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...imeline_06.jpg
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...imeline_07.jpghttp://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...imeline_08.jpg
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...imeline_09.jpghttp://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...imeline_10.jpg
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...imeline_11.jpghttp://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...imeline_12.jpg
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...imeline_13.jpghttp://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...imeline_14.jpg
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...imeline_15.jpghttp://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...imeline_16.jpg

hairylikebear 04-10-2012 11:50 AM

Rosters:
Then
Now

Prospects:

Then:
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...spects2009.jpg

Now:
http://i1208.photobucket.com/albums/...spects2012.jpg

StarsFan74 04-10-2012 12:13 PM

"...my gut says maybe." Maybe what? Maybe, retain him? Maybe, fire him?

hairylikebear 04-10-2012 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarsFan74 (Post 47663017)
"...my gut says maybe." Maybe what? Maybe, retain him? Maybe, fire him?

Exactly.

piqued 04-10-2012 12:30 PM

Love the timeline, great stuff.

Frozen Failure 04-10-2012 12:47 PM

Pros (of varying impact) to Joe's Tenure:
- Barch traded
- Prospect pool is now a pool rather than a puddle
- Did I mention Barch traded?
- Spent Richards' salary appropriately after he left for UFA.
- Let a lot of filler leave via UFA; replaced with better more expensive filler
- Didn't trade a 1st rounder away!
- Made some solid minor trades (Brunnstrom, Roman out)
- Let Turco and Modano walk after they had checked out
- Again, he traded Krys Barch.
- Kari Lehtonen, baby!
- Didn't rush a prospect in his entire tenure.
- Sensibly sent Raycroft packing and gave Bachman a chance to hack it.
- And finally, Wizard Prince of Swedes, Loui Eriksson extended at superb dollar and term.

Negatives (of varying impact):
- Goligoski for Neal and Niskanen (imo)
- Gave up assets for Jamie !%^&ing Suckenbrunner
- Extended Robidas for 4 years!
- Extended Goligoski for huge money and 4 years!
- Not selling this year after trading Grossmannnnnnnnnn for two picks indicative that they were trying to obtain more young talent.
- Failing to be hands on enough to call up enough younger players to supplement ailing talent (Morrow, Ott, Ribeiro, etc)
- Burned a year on Reilly Smith's ELC for 3 games and 2 weeks.
- Hasn't retired Lehtinen or Modano's # yet

Neutral shtuff:
- Daley re-signed at good money. Might be too long of term but what can ya do.
- Coaching decisions as we have now seen it is not the coaches but the team itself
- Ott extension
- Didn't trade down and make a better pick with the 2009 1st. Glennie will be acceptable but he'll be forever labeled as the "Panic Pick".

I honestly say keep him on for a year or two longer to give him a chance to reap what he has sown.

hairylikebear 04-10-2012 12:49 PM

I didn't realize before doing this that Fiddler was signed for three years.

That's a really underrated contract.

StarsFan74 04-10-2012 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hairylikebear (Post 47663507)
Exactly.

That's what my gut says then :D

StarsFan74 04-10-2012 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozen Failure (Post 47664679)
Pros (of varying impact) to Joe's Tenure:
- Barch traded
- Prospect pool is now a pool rather than a puddle
- Did I mention Barch traded?
- Spent Richards' salary appropriately after he left for UFA.
- Let a lot of filler leave via UFA; replaced with better more expensive filler
- Didn't trade a 1st rounder away!
- Made some solid minor trades (Brunnstrom, Roman out)
- Let Turco and Modano walk after they had checked out
- Again, he traded Krys Barch.
- Kari Lehtonen, baby!
- Didn't rush a prospect in his entire tenure.
- Sensibly sent Raycroft packing and gave Bachman a chance to hack it.
- And finally, Wizard Prince of Swedes, Loui Eriksson extended at superb dollar and term.

He first re-signed Barch in the off-season of 2010 when he didn't have to :laugh:. He also re-signed Brunnstrom after he took us through arbitration :laugh:. Both trades didn't need to be made.

Quote:

Negatives (of varying impact):
- Goligoski for Neal and Niskanen (imo)
- Gave up assets for Jamie !%^&ing Suckenbrunner
- Extended Robidas for 4 years!
- Extended Goligoski for huge money and 4 years!
- Not selling this year after trading Grossmannnnnnnnnn for two picks indicative that they were trying to obtain more young talent.
- Failing to be hands on enough to call up enough younger players to supplement ailing talent (Morrow, Ott, Ribeiro, etc)
- Burned a year on Reilly Smith's ELC for 3 games and 2 weeks.
- Hasn't retired Lehtinen or Modano's # yet
- He gave up a 3rd rounder for Langs, which could've been a 2nd if he'd re-signed him or we'd made the playoffs. ASSETS? Nah!

-He had to keep Goligoski. A team with 3 years (now 4) out of playoffs has less leverage in negotiating.

- He tried getting Saad for Grossmann from Chicago. They refused. He asked for Hodgson for Ott, Van offered only Raymond. He couldn't do anything about Morrow (LTIR and playing horribly) or Robidas (not playing well), both of whom were also under NTCs. You can't just blindly give away players for nothing when you are competing. Actually, to the contrary, I wanted him to add around the deadline.

- As if retiring Mo's and Lehts' jersey numbers was very imperative? They can wait.

Elysian 04-10-2012 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarsFan74 (Post 47665767)
He first re-signed Barch in the off-season of 2010 when he didn't have to :laugh:. He also re-signed Brunnstrom after he took us through arbitration :laugh:. Both trades didn't need to be made.



- He gave up a 3rd rounder for Langs, which could've been a 2nd if he'd re-signed him or we'd made the playoffs. ASSETS? Nah!

-He had to keep Goligoski. A team with 3 years (now 4) out of playoffs has less leverage in negotiating.

- He tried getting Saad for Grossmann from Chicago. They refused. He asked for Hodgson for Ott, Van offered only Raymond. He couldn't do anything about Morrow (LTIR and playing horribly) or Robidas (not playing well), both of whom were also under NTCs. You can't just blindly give away players for nothing when you are competing. Actually, to the contrary, I wanted him to add around the deadline.

- As if retiring Mo's and Lehts' jersey numbers was very imperative? They can wait.

Also, regarding Goligoski, it wasn't even close to "huge money," it was average money for a guy with the skills Goli has, even if he had a down year. There's more than enough indication that with a good team and a halfway decent power play Goligoski will be worth every penny (see his performance after being traded here, or his performance after coming back from injury this year). It's up to Gulutzan to utilize him properly.

Frozen Failure 04-10-2012 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarsFan74 (Post 47665767)
He first re-signed Barch in the off-season of 2010 when he didn't have to :laugh:. He also re-signed Brunnstrom after he took us through arbitration :laugh:. Both trades didn't need to be made.

Entirely true!
Quote:

Originally Posted by StarsFan74 (Post 47665767)
- He gave up a 3rd rounder for Langs, which could've been a 2nd if he'd re-signed him or we'd made the playoffs. ASSETS? Nah!

A third/possibly a 2nd would've been too much to give up for Suckenbrunner at this point in his career
Quote:

Originally Posted by StarsFan74 (Post 47665767)
-He had to keep Goligoski. A team with 3 years (now 4) out of playoffs has less leverage in negotiating.

Did he have to sign Goligoski? No! He could've waited til the draft to see what offers were out there. And I guess Elysian is also right in the fact that Gogo is not utilized well enough on the power play. And either Goligoski can't move the puck, or the entire team can't move the damn puck... which really shows that Goligoski (and some of our defense) can't defend very well.
Quote:

Originally Posted by StarsFan74 (Post 47665767)
- He tried getting Saad for Grossmann from Chicago. They refused. He asked for Hodgson for Ott, Van offered only Raymond. He couldn't do anything about Morrow (LTIR and playing horribly) or Robidas (not playing well), both of whom were also under NTCs. You can't just blindly give away players for nothing when you are competing. Actually, to the contrary, I wanted him to add around the deadline.

Asked too much for what assets we had to offer. And I would much rather have just given away guys like Robidas and Morrow for mid round 2nds and prospects the teams interested were down on...yeah... adding at this year's deadline would have really stung for the future. Consider that Morrow, Robidas, Ribeiro, Fiddler, all the UFAs and eventually Ott will need to be replaced? There was no reason to buy at the deadline this year.
Quote:

Originally Posted by StarsFan74 (Post 47665767)
- As if retiring Mo's and Lehts' jersey numbers was very imperative? They can wait.

Jere waits for no one!

Stars99Lobo37 04-10-2012 01:39 PM

Mark Parrish, Steve Bergin, Landon Wilson....good God. I forgot what we had to watch in 08-09. :facepalm:

StarsFan74 04-10-2012 02:19 PM

Quote:

A third/possibly a 2nd would've been too much to give up for Suckenbrunner at this point in his career
Definitely not the calamity you make it out to be. We gave up only a 3rd, so no point pounding the drums vis-a-vis the possible 2nd.


Quote:

Did he have to sign Goligoski? No! He could've waited til the draft to see what offers were out there. And I guess Elysian is also right in the fact that Gogo is not utilized well enough on the power play. And either Goligoski can't move the puck, or the entire team can't move the damn puck... which really shows that Goligoski (and some of our defense) can't defend very well.
Yes and No. He signed him before a the CBA negotiations could make things worse or before a spate of defenseman extensions made it even worse. A little hasty, I agree, but had to be done.

Also, "waited till the draft?" For whom or what? What is the point of dealing away the guy you traded away Neal for? I'd have no issues if the return was Bogosian, Shattenkirk, or Pietrangelo, but that is not possible, is it?

Quote:

Asked too much for what assets we had to offer. And I would much rather have just given away guys like Robidas and Morrow for mid round 2nds and prospects the teams interested were down on...yeah... adding at this year's deadline would have really stung for the future. Consider that Morrow, Robidas, Ribeiro, Fiddler, all the UFAs and eventually Ott will need to be replaced? There was no reason to buy at the deadline this year.
I would not give away Robidas "for mid round 2nds and prospects" after we already dealt away Grossmann for picks. We had 6 regulars and Pardy at that point. Makes no sense if we were still in the running. Like I said, I wanted us to add. Grossmann's deal somewhat surprised me.

Quote:

Jere waits for no one!
And yet, he still waits.

WhoahNow 04-10-2012 02:26 PM

I'm quite impressed with the drafting since GMJN has started, each year has the majority of the draftees looking like impact players (by impact players I mean playing on the Dallas Stars roster and contributing to the team).

2009
Impact players-Glennie, Chaisson, R.Smith, Vincour
Maybe impact players- None
Not likely impact players-McKenzie

2010
Impact players-Campbell, Nemeth
Maybe impact players-Guptill, Klingberg
Not likely impact players-Theriau

2011
Impact players-Oleksiak, Ritchie, Stransky
Maybe impact players- Molin, Vance, Jokipakka
Not likely impact players-None

16 players drafted under GMJN, 56.25% of them look to be impact players, 19.23% maybe impact players, and 12.5% not likely to be impact players.

Of course these are in my opinion and some players may not reach the Stars roster while some may turn out better than originally expected.

StarsFan74 04-10-2012 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elysian (Post 47666623)
Also, regarding Goligoski, it wasn't even close to "huge money," it was average money for a guy with the skills Goli has, even if he had a down year. There's more than enough indication that with a good team and a halfway decent power play Goligoski will be worth every penny (see his performance after being traded here, or his performance after coming back from injury this year). It's up to Gulutzan to utilize him properly.

It is a bit of an overpayment, I won't deny that. I thought initially maybe a 2 yr $3.5-4M "trial period" would have been a better offer, but if he is coerced to do that, he isn't coming back once he becomes UFA and we're left stranded again. Maybe Larsen would fill in for him when he leaves, but when Goose extended, Larsen hadn't really figured into the equation.

Stars99Lobo37 04-10-2012 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhoahNow (Post 47670029)
2011
Impact players-Oleksiak, Ritchie, Stransky
Maybe impact players- Molin, Vance, Jokipakka
Not likely impact players-None

If there is one player I'm pulling for big time to make the big club it's Jokipakka.

Hearing Bill Ollerman trying to say Jyrki Jokipakka and hearing Ralph say Jokipakka with the puck would be amazing. :laugh::laugh::laugh:

ReverendAlBundy 04-10-2012 03:00 PM

I think the whole stars board is pulling for Jyrki Jokipakka to make it. Ralph would make it magic to the ears.

Bennrocks 04-10-2012 03:03 PM

When the Grossmanns of the world are getting 3.5 over 4 years goligoski surely deserves 4.6

Also with the contracts going out to defenders now Daley, if he can stay as good as he was this season, is an absolute steal at 3.3

Elysian 04-10-2012 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bennrocks (Post 47672223)
When the Grossmanns of the world are getting 3.5 over 4 years goligoski surely deserves 4.6

:yo:

Frozen Failure 04-10-2012 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bennrocks (Post 47672223)
When the Grossmanns of the world are getting 3.5 over 4 years goligoski surely deserves 4.6

Well how's this... Bieksa makes 4.6 next year. Coburn makes 4.5. Pitkanen makes 4.5. Tyutin makes 4.5. These guys are all 2-3 types. Capable of handling pretty much every forward who comes their way and contributes enough offensively to play PP minutes.

Goligoski is arguably not quite as good as Bieksa, Coburn, Pitkanen, Tyutin, Hamhuis, etc. This is where I think Goligoski is somewhat overpaid in comparison to other players. He's not the best at defending, his offense isn't much to really write home about except that it is above average, and he does indeed suck under pressure.

This is Grossmann's prime-years contract. It's not a bad deal. If an average D-man makes 3, 3.5 for Grossmann's extra size, excellent positioning (blockin' shots to piss off Razor!) and solid first pass is worth it. There's always injury concerns with him, lately, though. But that comes with the territory. Comparables are Hjalmarsson, Boychuk, Scuderi. (all make about 3.5)

imo, Daley's deal is the best of pretty much every D-man out there. 3.3 for a guy who can skate, defend, pass, shoot (sometimes) and play a team game? Pretty much perfect, which is why Dillon is going to be awesome, because he is a bigger Daley with better tools.

No, Alex Goligoski does NOT deserve 4.6 million dollars per year to play 3-4-5 minutes unless he shows massive improvements in his defensive game and ability to move the puck. Of course, he could have just been injured this year. And the power play? I'm not going to hold that against him. That's all on the coaching staff. If he can put up 45 points and turn our power play around to be a top 10-15 unit when Gully figures out a better strategy, great, I'll shut up and eat a hat. Until then, he has not quite proven to me personally that he should be getting the money he has signed for.

E: I wouldn't say he's grossly overpaid, but I do feel that his contract is a bit... generous. Probably closer to .75 to 1 million overpaid.

StarsFan74 04-10-2012 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozen Failure (Post 47673791)
No, Alex Goligoski does NOT deserve 4.6 million dollars per year to play 3-4-5 minutes unless he shows massive improvements in his defensive game and ability to move the puck. Of course, he could have just been injured this year. And the power play? I'm not going to hold that against him. That's all on the coaching staff. If he can put up 45 points and turn our power play around to be a top 10-15 unit when Gully figures out a better strategy, great, I'll shut up and eat a hat. Until then, he has not quite proven to me personally that he should be getting the money he has signed for.

Can't disagree with that.

LatvianTwist 04-10-2012 04:00 PM

I've never figured out why people are putting any blame on Goligoski for the PP.

piqued 04-10-2012 04:02 PM

Uh, because he's the guy out there the most on the PP?

Frozen Failure 04-10-2012 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LatvianTwist (Post 47675477)
I've never figured out why people are putting any blame on Goligoski for the PP.

Because of this (piqued's point with NUMBERS!):

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...Name=timeOnIce

Stars99Lobo37 04-10-2012 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frozen Failure (Post 47675657)
Because of this (piqued's point with NUMBERS!):

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...Name=timeOnIce

The fact that Robidas got more playing time on the powerplay than Benn infuriates me all over again. :shakehead:shakehead:rant::rant:


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