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-   -   2012 WHL Bantam Draft Thread (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1163221)

Royal Canuck 02-06-2012 01:56 AM

All Bantam Draft Related Topics will go here.

(Barzal) I don't know what's got in to this kid but he is not playing up to his potential?????

Oilersfan21 02-06-2012 10:35 PM

2012 whl bantam draft predictions
Anybody have any predictions about the 2012 bantam draft 1st-2nd rounds including American skaters?

VicWHL101 02-07-2012 01:03 AM

I predict Matt Barzal will go in the top 5

Oilersfan21 02-07-2012 08:24 AM

How about Albertan defensemen? I heard Reagan, Guhle and Boulton were ranked high.

TopScoutingDepo 02-08-2012 06:18 PM

I think Ty Ronning will make a big move on his ranking before draft day He probably has the best wrist shot in bantam hockey and he flys all over the ice with and without the puck

Oilersfan21 02-08-2012 10:42 PM

Thank you western elite, I will be looking into that. And as for top scouting depo, I watched ronning in the John Reid memorial, and size and strength might be a bit of a concern. He can skate, but will have to work on gaining ibs of muscle in order to win a high percentage of puck battles at a higher level.

TopScoutingDepo 02-09-2012 03:51 AM

im sure they said the exact same things about his dad and all the other small players that make it. I seen him get layed out at center ice last week,he popped right back up and kept grinding.He knows how to put the puck in the net.that being said he has had the best training and coaching you can get.that is a big advatage over alot of bantam players who dont have BWC coaching a father who has his own training center and played in the nhl

Oilersfan21 02-09-2012 10:00 AM

If he has all these training centers and facilities we should see a major improvement over the summer then weight wise and maybe some more height.

WesternHockeyScout 02-09-2012 11:32 AM

No question that Ty is a skilled player and a solid pick somewhere in the first 6 rounds of the 2012 Bantam draft.

However, these days, you don't need a father who played in the NHL, and the training facilities, organizational advantages you mention are available to many kids throughout North America and the world.

Also, BWC is a fine organization, but to suggest that is somehow superior to others would be strictly a matter of opinion. I am sure those involved at North Shore, POE, Notre Dame, the Alberta AAA bantam programs etc. etc. might have a different opinion.

Hard working players with a passion for the game make their own breaks and blaze their own trails, as I am sure is the case with Ty, and a couple hundred others who are on the board for this years draft.

Here's 21 minutes on Ty spotlighted in a game this season.

As you can see, like many of the talented smaller forwards available in this years draft, Ty works hard, has good stick skills and decent hockey sense. He also benefits from having a big horse like Adam Musil as his centerman, which does open up a little bit more ice for him.

Oilersfan21 02-09-2012 01:02 PM

That is correct, many of the bantam aaa teams in Alberta would set a challenge for bwc, such as Sherwood park, Ssac, Calgary royals, lloydminister, ect. As well when I saw musil in st albert, he looked tired and a bit lazy. Was that just a bad game i saw? Or his he a true dominant 1st round source.

WesternHockeyScout 02-09-2012 04:15 PM

That's a great point. I think Adam is a fantastic hockey player. Obviously his size is a huge asset, and he uses it well to. He's a clean but explosive checker and a real force on the wall.

His skating stride is also exceptional. Great knee bend for a big guy who has explosive first step acceleration and a long smooth stride.

He is also a character kid with a proven pedigree - an older brother who has been a big success in the WHL and comes from a first class family.

With his experience playing on arguably Western Canada's #1 team playing with some of the best players in this age group, and already having WHL size, he's one of safer first round bets a GM can make.

Where Adam could improve, as you correctly cited, is in his work ethic. His backcheck is almost non-existent most of the time. Check out this 21 minute Scouting Reel video on Adam and you will see he almost immediately starts coasting when the puck goes the other way.

That said, with Adam's tremendous upside in so many other areas, that's something that can be worked on.

The more interesting discussion on this, is how much of an impact it has on a players draft value, which team they play on.

For example, Adam does play on Western Canada's #1 squad, and one of the top teams, frankly, on the continent in this age group. He's the second line center behind Matthew Barzal, who many will argue is the best player in the age group. A lot of times, Adam is out there facing the other teams weaker lines. Or, he's on the power play. He gets his share of points and he contributes to his teams outstanding success. Add in all his upside and it's easy to ignore a laxidaisical backcheck.

However, what if Adam played on the Interlake Lightning AAA team from Selkirk, Manitoba. He's now the starting center and matched up with opponents top guns. Say his team struggles to win 25% of their games in one of Western Canada's softer leagues. All of the sudden that lazy backcheck stands out as an issue. Is he still a first round prospect?

Compare Adam, for example, to a kid like Terrel Draude. They are both blessed with size and they both can find the back of the net. There is an argument to made that Draude must carry his team, while Adam does not. If the two players switch teams, does Draude's stock rise as the second line center behind Barzal? Can Musil carry Draude's load?

One of the blogs had an article up recently about first round busts, and late round surprises. My belief is that one of the things that contributes to players getting over-valued in the draft is over-exposure.

Certainly, no team has enjoyed as much exposure as Burnaby (rightfully so, by the way), but when you combine that success with the marketing efforts of the player reps, that can certainly lead to an over-valuation of it's players in this years draft.

If you list Burnaby's top players, it would look something like this;

1.) Barzal
2.) Szeto
3.) Musil
4.) McBride
5.) Shultz
6.) Ronning
7.) Holowko

A lot of those kids are heavily marketed, and if you believe the hype being pushed by their representatives, as many as 5 or 6 them are being touted as first rounders.

Good players, to be sure, each and every one, but for my money, there is no more than 2 first rounders in the bunch. Way too many great players out there, who aren't as heavily marketed, and playing on teams that don't get the type of exposure or enjoy the type of success that Burnaby has.

After Barzal, I would look to Soy, Gawdin or Kawaguchi in BC before I went to a second Burnaby forward, (although Szeto has some mad skillz and hockey sense). And that's just in BC. There is about a dozen other forwards after that in different regions before I go back to the Burnaby well.

However, marketing and exposure are powerful things. As is the benefit of playing on the second line of a powerhouse team and being pretty decent yourself. Those are some of the reasons we have a steady supply of first round busts and late round suprises.

After that rant though - Adam Musil's potential is unlimited. He's a great looking hockey player and certainly looks like a can't-miss prospect.

Oilersfan21 02-09-2012 05:27 PM

That was a good read. I was interested when you mentioned the part about draude and musil exchanging places. Musil would be eating many more minutes, and who knows whether he would continue to coast or not. He also would not have the skill to play with, which would probably subtract much of his point totals. Thinking of that, it reminds me of Brendan Guhle who played in grand prairie last year, and who is now Playing in Sherwood park. You can certainly tell he has been able to skate the puck and be more offensive with support behind him. Playing with Cameron Reagan also helps. Those 2 know where each other are all the time. this reminds me of Duncan Keith and brent seabrook, or Ryan suter and Shea weber. Anyways, musil is obviously a tremendous hockey player, but Work ethic is a big asset as well, if you draft musil high, you will obviously want to see him improve, and without work ethic, it is tough for this to happen.

bantamhockeyfan 02-09-2012 06:10 PM

Holowko had 2 points in the entire John Reid tournament playing with skilled players and defencemen that can get him the puck. How can you even mention him as a top prospect?

bantamhockeyfan 02-09-2012 06:18 PM

If you want to see where Ronning will go in the draft look for a similar sized, speedier more agressive 96 from last year. He was Captain of Abbotsford and was one of the last players picked in the draft.

bantamhockeyfan 02-09-2012 06:24 PM

Barzal grew abount 5 inches over the summer. For now he is somewhat clumsy and has to adapt to his new size. Also, I believe he has been plagued by a bad groin all year. Those two factors, plus his frustration and attitude on the ice and bench have him playing sub-par to what he is capable of.

LVShark 02-10-2012 01:17 AM

Robby Jackson will go top 15 without a doubt. Kid is absolutely unreal.

WesternHockeyScout 02-10-2012 12:49 PM

Robby Jackson is a nice looking player. However, is he ready to commit to the WHL and sign as a 15 year old? It's difficult for a team to commit one of it's top draft picks to a player with commitment issues.

Similar to another California talent, Brian Williams, from the 2010 draft. First round talent, but was undecided on the WHL rout, so he fell all the way to the 8th round.

It would be great to see Robby in the WHL. I hope the comes our way

mjw22 02-10-2012 05:41 PM

bantam draft age would 16 be better.
I see a lot of bantam discussion on this site . With the high number of 1-2 round picks that don't pan out as predicted would a 16 yr old draft lesson the chances of this happening. The other two CHL leagues do this. I would think you would get a better read on development etc with one more year. Anyone know why it is 15 not 16 . Seems there are a lot of list players that out perform drafted players mainly due to the fact IMO that they get listed at 16 or later and have developed into better players.

WesternHockeyScout 02-11-2012 12:42 AM

You hit the nail on the head.

Two things the WHL can do to get more value from their draft picks.

1.) As you said, move the draft back a year


2.) Host a Territorial Tournament prior to the draft. Form 8 Regional Teams with players who want to go the WHL route and are willing to sign immediately. Form the teams from BC, Northern Alberta (Red Deer & North), Southern Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba and USA. These teams should include most of your top 5 round potential picks. Have them play a round robin tournament against each other so apples and apples can be compared.

Host the Tournament from Thursday to Sunday on draft week and make the first round picks the Sunday afternoon following the final games and lock up your first round picks on the spot.

The WHL is a over 100 million dollar a year business. It's worth getting it right the first time.

TopScoutingDepo 02-11-2012 02:10 AM

I think moving it back a year would be very logical.bantam hockey is a transitional year of hockey where kids are turning into men.Most kids are late bloomers,I see the game as 90% mental.You can't teach someone to play with heart.Most of the top draft picks don't play a physical game at all,you won't get to see how they react to it till Miget. 16 would make alot more sense. No doubt

timekeep 02-11-2012 02:34 AM

All for moving the WHL draft back a year and then the players that are good enough can play immediately as well.

TopScoutingDepo 02-11-2012 02:44 AM

Look at Brendan Gallagher! Everybody thought he was way to small.Size does help but it's about being a smart two player these days.If you don't backcheck you ain't going nowhere these days

TopScoutingDepo 02-11-2012 03:07 AM

Hey western hockey scout.what do you think of a goalie like Alex kong who left bwc to be no1 for burnaby minor.He is a great goalie but has maybe the worst defence
In tier1.does he shine more as #1 on burnaby minor or as Mcbrides backup on bwc

TopScoutingDepo 02-11-2012 03:16 AM

I could see exceptional puck handling skill watching Barzal but Doesn't look much better than Soy in my eyes

Sammy* 02-11-2012 04:53 AM


Originally Posted by TopScoutingDepo (Post 43942147)
Look at Brendan Gallagher! Everybody thought he was way to small.Size does help but it's about being a smart two player these days.If you don't backcheck you ain't going nowhere these days

For every Gallagher there are a million other guys whose small stature has an enormous effect.
Like it or not , thats a fact.
And the size issue only becomes more difficult to deal with as the kid gets older & moves up the food chain.

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