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-   -   KHL Expansion (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1164867)

malkinfan 04-14-2012 12:58 AM

KHL Expansion
 
I noticed there is a hot thread like this in another forum which many of the same guys post. Why not post here too, so we don't always have to look over there. Can we make this a sticky? Any news or discussion on expansion post here.

Zagreb, Poprad, Prague, Donbass... Let the fun begin!

vorky 04-14-2012 04:43 AM

Slovan Bratislava and HC LEV Prague have 99,9% to play KHL next season according to my informations. HC LEV Prague will officially sent application next week. KHL commision will come to check infrastraction of Slovan next week.

Donbass - we will see what happens with building new arena. Druzhba is not good enough

HK Poprad - I dont believe this club will play KHL.

Joey Banana 04-14-2012 05:33 AM

A question for you KHL guys, i really donīt know much about this league. Why are they so eager to get a Swiss/German/Austrian team? Every year i hear rumours about teams going to the KHL.

I just donīt get it. The level of hockey is so far below in those leagues than in the KHL and even if those teams bring big loads of cash to form a solid team they will always be outplayed because they have to dress natives, right?

Also there is no revenue, because hockey is either a too small market (Switzerland and Austria) or gets no attention whatsoever (Germany).

Or are these just rumours and the KHL never really tried to get a team from that area?

vorky 04-14-2012 05:44 AM

I have never heard rumours about Austrian club to join league.

Only real candidate from this area is Helvetics of Suiss. IMO KHL wants to get new markets and Suiss is hockey and wealth country, Germany is great (size and ecomony). Maybe Germans are not interesting in hockey so much, but there is a big potential. Gazprom Germany can lure sponsors, fans will come. Does any german tv broadcast KHL? I am almost sure it will, if german club joins. So, new market for KHL (plus modern technologies, KHL can learn and not only broadcasting)

There was no rule about natives for non-russian clubs in past. There will be one since new season (valid until Sochi Olympics). German, Slovak etc club will have to dress at least 5 guys who can play for country (acc.to IIHF rule), where club is based. Example - german club must sign germans. It is not real german, Helvetics to join until Sochi Olympics. And we dont know how this rule will work after Olympics. Will it be abandoned? I think German club would not have trouble to sign 5 natives, you have many of them in NA

IJKPrinciple 04-14-2012 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joey Banana (Post 47965613)
A question for you KHL guys, i really donīt know much about this league. Why are they so eager to get a Swiss/German/Austrian team? Every year i hear rumours about teams going to the KHL.

I just donīt get it. The level of hockey is so far below in those leagues than in the KHL and even if those teams bring big loads of cash to form a solid team they will always be outplayed because they have to dress natives, right?

Also there is no revenue, because hockey is either a too small market (Switzerland and Austria) or gets no attention whatsoever (Germany).

Or are these just rumours and the KHL never really tried to get a team from that area?

It's the "Kontinental Hockey League". Basically expansion into Europe (and Asia) and eventually uniting these 2 continents hockey-wise was the main goal from the beginning. Eventually the goal is to have at least 1 team from every of the top ice hockey markets (Sweden, Finland, Czechia, Slovakia, Germany, Switzerland,...) while the domestic leagues of these countries will be sort of like 2nd Tier to KHL (Russian clubs in KHL have VHL clubs as farms, non-Russian KHL clubs will have the countries' domestic leagues' clubs as farms).

IJKPrinciple 04-14-2012 08:39 AM

Aaaaand Milan is out for 2012-13, now officially, although it has been rumoured.

http://www.championat.com/hockey/new...em-sezone.html

zorz 04-14-2012 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IJKPrinciple (Post 47967777)
Aaaaand Milan is out for 2012-13, now officially, although it has been rumoured.

http://www.championat.com/hockey/new...em-sezone.html

I dont mind these news at all. I still think adding Milan is not the best idea. IMO they should add only teams which they want in the leagues forever, not some stopgaps. If they really want some clubs from European hockey countries and still keep significant number of Russian teams there (which they probably want), there is no space for teams like Milano.

Joey Banana 04-14-2012 09:58 AM

Okay, thanks.

Would absolutely love a german team having a big rivalry with a swiss team. :naughty:

Well, with only 5 natives, it actually is possibly to compete, i think. Especially if swiss and german players from NA came to play in those teams.

But what would such a team need as a budget?

vorky 04-14-2012 10:08 AM

Quote:

what would such a team need as a budget?
rumours says that budget is around 12-15 milions euro. Minimum of course.

malkinfan 04-14-2012 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IJKPrinciple (Post 47966761)
It's the "Kontinental Hockey League". Basically expansion into Europe (and Asia) and eventually uniting these 2 continents hockey-wise was the main goal from the beginning. Eventually the goal is to have at least 1 team from every of the top ice hockey markets (Sweden, Finland, Czechia, Slovakia, Germany, Switzerland,...) while the domestic leagues of these countries will be sort of like 2nd Tier to KHL (Russian clubs in KHL have VHL clubs as farms, non-Russian KHL clubs will have the countries' domestic leagues' clubs as farms).

Exactly. Ruzicka is having a hard time understanding this. He thinks that the Czech league play is better than KHL play (delusional), and that the Czech league teams can't compete with Lev Prague (well duh that's not the point). The idea is to get rid of all of these fragmented domestic leagues of like 10 teams, usually 2-3 powerhouse and the rest average or below par. Now the KHL comes in and scoops those good markets up and gives those teams an additional financial boost. Now fans of those markets get a top flight match to watch every single game because its 30 teams strong. Its called infrastructure upgrade.

vorky 04-15-2012 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malkinfan (Post 48007887)
Exactly. Ruzicka is having a hard time understanding this. He thinks that the Czech league play is better than KHL play (delusional), and that the Czech league teams can't compete with Lev Prague (well duh that's not the point). The idea is to get rid of all of these fragmented domestic leagues of like 10 teams, usually 2-3 powerhouse and the rest average or below par. Now the KHL comes in and scoops those good markets up and gives those teams an additional financial boost. Now fans of those markets get a top flight match to watch every single game because its 30 teams strong. Its called infrastructure upgrade.

seems you read this :D

zorz 04-15-2012 04:25 AM

I just read the interview and even though I don't think he has much of a point, still whatever Ruzicka says is worth thinking about. He's very respectable person who knows a lot about hockey.

vorky 04-15-2012 04:56 AM

I respect Ruziska as a player and coach/manager but there is too much hysteria about KHL in Prague. Especially about sharing O2 Arena. It worked in Poprad, why should not in Prague?

he said that tickets in Poprad costed 20-25 euro
Quote:

V Popradu se platilo dvacet až dvacet pět euro
It is not true, it was 7-20 euro He does not (want to) have info and makes panic.

ult 04-15-2012 06:51 AM

20-25 euros is cheap anyway. In Kazan the average ticket price for regular season is about 17 euros. In Riga it's even higher. What is average salary in Prague?

malkinfan 04-15-2012 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ult (Post 48040569)
20-25 euros is cheap anyway. In Kazan the average ticket price for regular season is about 17 euros. In Riga it's even higher. What is average salary in Prague?

However, maybe this is the reason for Kazan bad attendance. What can you say about Riga, such a great hockey market. How much does Minsk charge for an average ticket?

malkinfan 04-15-2012 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorky (Post 48039367)
seems you read this :D

Yes :D

Mirinho 04-15-2012 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ult (Post 48040569)
20-25 euros is cheap anyway. In Kazan the average ticket price for regular season is about 17 euros. In Riga it's even higher. What is average salary in Prague?

it's one of the highest from eastern capitals ... as i know czech fans there won't be problem with ticket prices but with team roster, results etc. ... if LEV Praha will have the same sh** team like was in Poprad last season, fans won't participate ... it they will have good team with especialy good czech players and LEV will be in the top half of the table you can easily expect 10k + per match

Sokil 04-15-2012 03:43 PM

Donbas is in, Druzhba is good enough and they've made a commitment to build a much larger one

Sokil 04-15-2012 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorky (Post 47965709)
I have never heard rumours about Austrian club to join league.

EC Redbull Salzburg was mentioned once.

Sokil 04-15-2012 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malkinfan (Post 48007887)
Exactly. Ruzicka is having a hard time understanding this. He thinks that the Czech league play is better than KHL play (delusional), and that the Czech league teams can't compete with Lev Prague (well duh that's not the point). The idea is to get rid of all of these fragmented domestic leagues of like 10 teams, usually 2-3 powerhouse and the rest average or below par. Now the KHL comes in and scoops those good markets up and gives those teams an additional financial boost. Now fans of those markets get a top flight match to watch every single game because its 30 teams strong. Its called infrastructure upgrade.

This is great in theory - culling powerhouse teams from each of the smaller fragmented national leagues - but it's undone by there being so many crappy Russian teams involved diluting the talent-base.

Cut a bunch of Russian teams in remote or oversaturated locations and this plan works much better.

J17 Vs Proclamation 04-15-2012 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malkinfan (Post 48007887)
Exactly. Ruzicka is having a hard time understanding this. He thinks that the Czech league play is better than KHL play (delusional), and that the Czech league teams can't compete with Lev Prague (well duh that's not the point). The idea is to get rid of all of these fragmented domestic leagues of like 10 teams, usually 2-3 powerhouse and the rest average or below par. Now the KHL comes in and scoops those good markets up and gives those teams an additional financial boost. Now fans of those markets get a top flight match to watch every single game because its 30 teams strong. Its called infrastructure upgrade.

The problem is, people don't seem to understand that such a concept could destroy European hockey if it came to be. Making a European elite league could destroy domestic hockey, given motivation to develop talent all but disappears for the majority. I mean if the Czech league loses it's elite teams and is left with the remains, the remains will absolutely disintegrate.

All you are doing is making a mini NHL, which is odd considering so many Europeans complain about the NHL poaching talent in the first place. You create one strong league, but the infrastructure of other leagues is destroyed.

I just don't really understand or see the true logic in this by the KHL. Surely there are more important things they could be doing within Russian hockey? Adding teams from all over Europe may make a stronger "domestic" league, but it serves no help in improving the Russian development system and bring up new young players. You'd create even more of a Russian elite, with many traditional clubs no longer being able to be part of the KHL (unless you are going to expand it to like 50-60 teams), roster spots become much tighter for young Russian players etc.

All this does is absolute cull the lower tiers of hockey infrastructure. Having the elite is all well and good, but hockey development won't work with just an elite and domestically shattered leagues.

Sokil 04-15-2012 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation (Post 48082645)
The problem is, people don't seem to understand that such a concept could destroy European hockey if it came to be. Making a European elite league could destroy domestic hockey, given motivation to develop talent all but disappears for the majority. I mean if the Czech league loses it's elite teams and is left with the remains, the remains will absolutely disintegrate.

All you are doing is making a mini NHL, which is odd considering so many Europeans complain about the NHL poaching talent in the first place. You create one strong league, but the infrastructure of other leagues is destroyed.

I just don't really understand or see the true logic in this by the KHL. Surely there are more important things they could be doing within Russian hockey? Adding teams from all over Europe may make a stronger "domestic" league, but it serves no help in improving the Russian development system and bring up new young players. You'd create even more of a Russian elite, with many traditional clubs no longer being able to be part of the KHL (unless you are going to expand it to like 50-60 teams), roster spots become much tighter for young Russian players etc.

All this does is absolute cull the lower tiers of hockey infrastructure. Having the elite is all well and good, but hockey development won't work with just an elite and domestically shattered leagues.

Why are you assuming that the lower teams would disappear if the top 1-2 teams left? I don't see the connection.

If anything, rather than wanting to leave to the NHL, local development will grow with players wanting to represent their nation's KHL team rather than move to North America to play in the AHL or NHL there. Having a viable alternative tot he NHL within Europe, IMO, is a great thing.

ult 04-15-2012 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J17 Vs Proclamation (Post 48082645)
.



lol, what? With KHL everything is like, 10 times better than it was before. I mean everything. What better can they do for Russian hockey other than trying to make it number 1 sport in country, which it never was. No help in improving the Russian development system? Are you out of your mind? There are 20 teams in KHL, next season there will be about 25 russian teams in VHL, and about 50 in MHL. Then you have KHL TV with about 10 million subscribers and unprecedented rise of popularity of hockey in media.

You better stick to what you know best, english hockey, or whatever.

This post reminded me how much I hate nhl... Like, boo, what are you doing, making your own strong league, stop it now!

Sokil 04-15-2012 04:46 PM

Barys Astana ruined Kazakhstani hockey development. :sarcasm:

vorky 04-15-2012 04:52 PM

Quote:

next season there will be about 25 russian teams in VHL
what teams should join VHL? Krylya Sovetov comeback?


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