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-   -   Markham Arena II (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1178403)

htpwn 04-26-2012 06:03 PM

Markham Arena II
 
Markham Sports, Entertainment and Cultural Centre


http://www.markham.ca/wps/wcm/connec...afb375439e2f/1
(Click for larger image)

Quote:

Markham has been offered a unique opportunity to partner on a sports, entertainment & cultural centre located in Markham Centre:
  • Venue capacity approximately 20,000 (665,000 sq. ft)
  • Constructed on Markham-owned land and owned 100% by Markham
  • Constructions costs, estimated to be $325 million for hard, soft, and other costs, exclusive of construction financing
  • Over 90% of the Centre will be funded by the private sector
  • Will not necessitate an increase in the property tax rate
  • Located on an a parcel of land approximately 6 acres – situated west of the Unionville GO station and on the north side of Highway 407
  • There is a requirement for 4,400 parking spaces accommodated around the Centre


Staff Report on the Arena
-- Arena Presentation


Confidential report details Markham's NHL dreams
:

Quote:

According to a copy of an April 19 confidential report obtained by the Economist & Sun, the six-acre site for the proposed $325-million facility is currently owned by developer Rudy Bratty’s Remington, which will transfer the land west of the Unionville GO station to the town for parkland.

The report varies from statements made last week in which Markham Mayor Frank Scarpitti indicated the town already owned the land.
Quote:

The proposal from businessman Graeme Roustan, CEO of GTA Sports and Entertainment, has stressed the focus of the centre would be concerts and cultural events and not about having a professional sports team on site as a tenant.

However, the confidential report suggests otherwise
, citing Markham is concerned other events may fail to support rent without a franchise and hopes to negotiate a termination clause if Mr. Roustan fails to deliver an NHL team within a reasonable time after the facility opens.
Quote:

Sources said Mr. Roustan and Mr. Bratty are pushing to have their proposal expedited Thursday night — six days after the first public meeting last Friday — so they can submit an approved plan to an NHL meeting next week when discussion on the relocation of teams is initiated.

The rush isn’t to do with bringing the World Junior Ice Hockey Championships to Markham, sources indicated, contrary to statements made by Mr. Roustan last week.
Past threads:

1. Markham, Ontario planning to build a 19,000-seat arena

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3241/...8c9a73acfe.jpg
Source: Spacing Toronto.
Markham, Ontario
Population: 302,000

Killion 04-26-2012 06:11 PM

Thread?.... Ok, so what are the chances of the vote being deferred in light of the fact that there appears to have been some expressions of interest from a couple of private parties who seem willing to step into the breach & assume the financial interests currently resting with the City of Markham?. Has been determined one way or the other that theyve' signed an exclusivity agreement with Remington et al negating that possibility?.

htpwn 04-26-2012 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killion (Post 48875239)
Thread?.... Ok, so what are the chances of the vote being deferred in light of the fact that there appears to have been some expressions of interest from a couple of private parties who seem willing to step into the breach & assume the financial interests currently resting with the City of Markham?. Has been determined one way or the other that theyve' signed an exclusivity agreement with Remington et al negating that possibility?.

Yea, sorry, I just figured I'd try to take a page from the great job JawandaPuck did with the Seattle threads and add some additional information in the OP.

Anyways, here is today's agenda recommending that Council vote in favour. Whether they decide to prorogue (remember, there has been closed door discussions for months, so this won't be a decision on a whim, but it is unfortunate that the public hasn't been given more time to discuss the proposal) or not, we'll just have to wait and see. I think its unlikely, as it looks like Roustan is pushing this to get passed ASAP.

You can apparently listen to the meeting live here, although I can't seem to get it to work.

GuelphStormer 04-26-2012 07:43 PM

it no work pour moi too.

Patofqc 04-26-2012 07:47 PM

I sure hope the southern Ontario gets a second team, so whicever team i root for (the Habs now, the nords i hope soon) plays Toronto twice more. So much better then games against Florida or Carolina...

Patofqc 04-26-2012 07:48 PM

My hope is all of Seattle, Markham and Quebec City all get a team soon. My guess is Phoenix to Quebec City, Seattle and Toronto 2 for expansion.

Bryan574 04-26-2012 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patofqc (Post 48885053)
How far is Markham from Hamilton? Then there should be 2 more teams in the Toronto region, one in Marham and one in Hamilton (maybe the Islanders?;) ). Sorry was not thinking

further then Toronto is to Hamilton as Markhams more in Toronto's backyard.


As you can see Kitchener/Waterloo region and Hamilton area will still be in the same position as before undeserved.



http://www.chambersfood.com/img/map1.jpg

JMROWE 04-26-2012 08:15 PM

Look if Markham wants an NHL. team they should get to the back of the line because there are a lot of cities ahead of Markham .

1. Quebec City
2. Hamilton
3. Seattle
4. Houston
5. Toronto (Markham)

If Markham cared to read the report put out by The Confrence Board of Canada said that Hamilton & Quebec City are the only viable markets left in Canada & that a 2nd team in the GTA. (Markham) was not viable & would be extremly difficult to do not to mention a huge price tag but being apart of Toronto they will probley let ego get in the way of common sense & try to do it anyway just out spite for Hamilton & the rest of the unserved NHL. market in southern Ontario .

wjhl2009fan 04-26-2012 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMROWE (Post 48887383)
Look if Markham wants an NHL. team they should get to the back of the line because there are a lot of cities ahead of Markham .

1. Quebec City
2. Hamilton
3. Seattle
4. Houston
5. Toronto (Markham)

If Markham cared to read the report put out by The Confrence Board of Canada said that Hamilton & Quebec City are the only viable markets left in Canada & that a 2nd team in the GTA. (Markham) was not viable & would be extremly difficult to do not to mention a huge price tag but being apart of Toronto they will probley let ego get in the way of common sense & try to do it anyway just out spite for Hamilton & the rest of the unserved NHL. market in southern Ontario .

The thing is it will come down to who steps and do they have the money while Markham could be in the text book sense at the back of the line its possible they ready to step up and have the funds which would put them at the front of the line.

JMROWE 04-26-2012 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patofqc (Post 48885053)
How far is Markham from Hamilton? Then there should be 2 more teams in the Toronto region, one in Marham and one in Hamilton (maybe the Islanders?;) ). Sorry was not thinking

Hamilton is about an hour & half to 2 hours away from Markham & no one from Hamilton , Kitchener\Waterloo area & the rest of southwestern Ontario would support an NHL. there because it is too far & last time I checked Hamilton , The KW. area & southwestern ontario are the largest unserved NHL market in canada not Markham who just wants to further inflate the ego of Toronto (GTA.) at the spite of everyone else in southern ontario .

Bryan574 04-26-2012 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan (Post 48887893)
The thing is it will come down to who steps and do they have the money while Markham could be in the text book sense at the back of the line its possible they ready to step up and have the funds which would put them at the front of the line.


as posted earlier


http://www.hamilton.ca/NR/rdonlyres/...ernal_Audi.pdf


Quote:

AEG/Katz Group has identified an individual with the resources and interest in becoming an NHL owner for a team in Hamilton. If and when this candidate becomes the owner/franchisee of an NHL team for Hamilton, it is the Katz Groupís intention to leverage that opportunity into a multi‐use sports and entertainment district.*Katz Group is contemplating a new ultra urban development that contemplates retail commercial and residential space anchored by a fully modern NHL venue that would cater to 2 million visitors annually.

Bryan574 04-26-2012 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMROWE (Post 48888365)
Hamilton is about an hour & half to 2 hours away from Markham & no one from Hamilton , Kitchener\Waterloo area & the rest of southwestern Ontario would support an NHL. there because it is too far & last time I checked Hamilton , The KW. area & southwestern ontario are the largest unserved NHL market in canada not Markham who just wants to further inflate the ego of Toronto (GTA.) at the spite of everyone else in southern ontario .

alright bud settle down. :nono:

JMROWE 04-26-2012 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wjhl2009fan (Post 48887893)
The thing is it will come down to who steps and do they have the money while Markham could be in the text book sense at the back of the line its possible they ready to step up and have the funds which would put them at the front of the line.

LOL. Hamilton has an NHL. ready arena that can be quickly upgraded at any time & with Katz & AEG. supporting a NHL. team in Hamilton & are about take over Copps Coliseum Hamilton has some key alies in there corner . Also Quebec City is a couple of months away from putting a shovel in the ground for there new arena so in my opinion Hamilton & Quebec City are at the front of the line . But lets be honest dose Markham really think that MLSE. will allow them to bring another NHL. team to play in there yard the answer is no .

Killion 04-26-2012 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Patofqc (Post 48885053)
How far is Markham from Hamilton?

Toronto to Hamilton is about 10km's farther west than say, Montreal to Hudson PQ, whereas Markham is closer to Toronto by about 10kms' than Joliette is to Montreal, lying in the northeasterly quadrant of Toronto. Distance from the "Old Village" of Markham to Hamilton is about 100km's.

Markham, or York Region encompasses a huge swath of land across the northern edges of the GTA, no real lines of demarcation or borders with Toronto's urban sprawl. If you miss the signs, you'd be unaware of even being in it. No real "city center" or anchor, which is one of the reasons theyd dearly like to get this project built, a team installed.

Hamilton on the other hand is quite distinct & distinctive, a city population proper of about 500,000; University, Bio-Med, HT & the remnants of a once massive heavy industrial complex including steel of course for which its famous, like Pittsburgh. Again there you have a massive population that within 60mins' drive or less totals some 2.5-3M more.

I believe both markets could easily support NHL franchises, money just sitting on the table, both likely being top 5 or 6 revenue generators in no time flat. In fact, in comparison to Quebec or the newly minted Jets in Winnipeg, either one of Hamilton or Markham would be far more lucrative. Larger population bases; heavier corporate presence; media concentrations etc, demand for it right off the charts.

Bryan574 04-26-2012 09:04 PM

fan 590's David Alter twitter from the vote :‏

More citizens coming up, asking council to defer a vote, saying not enough information has been disclosed.

A lot of citizens here not liking this deal as is. Wanting a minimum of 60 days to come up with new plan.

WingsFan95 04-26-2012 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMROWE (Post 48887383)
Look if Markham wants an NHL. team they should get to the back of the line because there are a lot of cities ahead of Markham .

1. Quebec City
2. Hamilton
3. Seattle
4. Houston
5. Toronto (Markham)

If Markham cared to read the report put out by The Confrence Board of Canada said that Hamilton & Quebec City are the only viable markets left in Canada & that a 2nd team in the GTA. (Markham) was not viable & would be extremly difficult to do not to mention a huge price tag but being apart of Toronto they will probley let ego get in the way of common sense & try to do it anyway just out spite for Hamilton & the rest of the unserved NHL. market in southern Ontario .

Thing is, Markham is 1 hour from Barrie.
45 min from Oshawa.
30-45 min from Newmarket and the rest of York Region.

That's a city population of over 400,000 that is hockey mad and is usually not within range to go see many Leafs games...nor do they really want to.

Then there's Northern Toronto.


Hamilton and Kitchener area is pushing 800 thousand but I think too many people are looking at those numbers the wrong way. The economy and spending habits in those areas aren't the best for hockey.


Now, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't say Hamilton, who got passed over for Tampa and Ottawa, is all that big of an option especially with a now ancient stadium.


Houston and Seattle are in no way ahead of Markham. No way.

Ryan34222 04-26-2012 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan574 (Post 48885289)
further then Toronto is to Hamilton as Markhams more in Toronto's backyard.


As you can see Kitchener/Waterloo region and Hamilton area will still be in the same position as before undeserved.



http://www.chambersfood.com/img/map1.jpg

Not to mention Brampton Mississauga..certainly they wouldn't fight traffic all the way out to Markham for a 7pm game

Bryan574 04-26-2012 09:31 PM

twitter feed:

Regional Councillor Joe Li says this product should be 100% privately funded, won't support motion.


Councillor Jones says town of Markham shouldn't be in the professional arena business.

Ryan34222 04-26-2012 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan574 (Post 48896827)
twitter feed:

Regional Councillor Joe Li says this product should be 100% privately funded, won't support motion.


Councillor Jones says town of Markham shouldn't be in the professional arena business.

I would agree with Mr Jones.. Markhams still a town leave the pie in the sky dreams for the cities.

Hamilton Tigers 04-26-2012 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingsFan95 (Post 48895987)
That's a city population of over 400,000

301,709 according to 2011 census

Quote:

Hamilton and Kitchener area is pushing 800 thousand
Again according to 2011 census

519,949 City of Hamilton
507,096 region of Waterloo

That's 1,027,045 between the two of them. Then add the following

713,443 Mississauga
474,786 London
392,184 St Catharines - Niagara
182,520 Oakville
175,779 Burlington
141,097 Guelph
135,501 Brantford

That's another 2,215,310

Total 3,242,355...

... and that doesn't include Milton, Brampton, The western part of Toronto, none of which would have to fight the congestion of Toronto, where as Markham is on the 'wrong side' of that traffic congestion, which among the worst in the world.
http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/Canada/2.../19664861.html

JMROWE 04-26-2012 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WingsFan95 (Post 48895987)
Thing is, Markham is 1 hour from Barrie.
45 min from Oshawa.
30-45 min from Newmarket and the rest of York Region.

That's a city population of over 400,000 that is hockey mad and is usually not within range to go see many Leafs games...nor do they really want to.

Then there's Northern Toronto.


Hamilton and Kitchener area is pushing 800 thousand but I think too many people are looking at those numbers the wrong way. The economy and spending habits in those areas aren't the best for hockey.


Now, don't get me wrong, but I wouldn't say Hamilton, who got passed over for Tampa and Ottawa, is all that big of an option especially with a now ancient stadium.


Houston and Seattle are in no way ahead of Markham. No way.

Copps Coliseum can be easly & quickly upgraded in a matter of months & with posible comfimation of Katz & AEG, takking over Copps Coliseum tomorrow Quebec City & Hamilton are clearly at the ahead of the line .

I would not be surprised if Hamilton has contractors on there speed dail ready to move in & start renovating Copps Coliseum at moments notice .

htpwn 04-26-2012 09:59 PM

Can somebody please remind me what municipality is in the title?

JMROWE 04-26-2012 10:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryan574 (Post 48896827)
twitter feed:

Regional Councillor Joe Li says this product should be 100% privately funded, won't support motion.


Councillor Jones says town of Markham shouldn't be in the professional arena business.

Looks like this ain't going to happen .

Ryan34222 04-26-2012 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htpwn (Post 48899675)
Can somebody please remind me what municipality is in the title?

Haha you would have to expect this..we're really threatened by Markham getting an arena

knorthern knight 04-26-2012 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by htpwn (Post 48899675)
Can somebody please remind me what municipality is in the title?

Town of Markham. Or was the question rhetorical? Not sure.


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