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-   -   Radulov and Kostitsyn, a matter of culture ? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1182515)

torero 05-02-2012 06:50 PM

Radulov and Kostitsyn, a matter of culture ?
 
I understand that both guys broke team rules. That is not great. I fully agree with that.

Yet i wanted to give a type of cultural perspective on this affair.

In the US, the top of anti alcohol was reached in the years of prohibition. Total alcohol prohibition. Since then, rules have relaxed a bit. Yet it is still heavily sentenced to drive while being drunk. (i am not entering into the debate whether it is good or not !! i judge nothing ... ) the US remains among the countries the heaviest anti alcohol policy ... behind most muslim countries.

In Russia, to put the perspective, people drink a lot ..., but a lot means a lot !. For 2 persons, finish a 1 liter bottle of Vodka isn't a big deal. It is a nice evening where they had reasonable fun !. To be sick the next day ... is like a bit being a hero. You are forgiven. (a bit the same style than teenagers ... how was your party ? amaaaazing we drunk like ... hahaha... an now i have head ache). It must be among the most permissive countries in the world for Alcohol. On a daily basis, the alcohol excuse is a good one, for which most russians (and ex USSR block countries) have almost perfect compassion.

Just to say it. So, that they be suspended for 1 game. That is ok, it is fine. That they be no wanted anymore for the team for that ... i believe a second chance is deserved. Now that they really understood that what they did is really not good in the NHL.
Now the 2 guys really understood the cultural difference described previously.

Don't kill a monster on the rise for cultural misunderstandings !

adsfan 05-02-2012 06:54 PM

I have heard that plenty of people in Russia drink a lot. Plenty of people here in Wisconsin have the same problem. Maybe it is weather related? Wherever you have a lot of cold and snow, you drink because there is less to do in winter.

jstreet 05-02-2012 06:55 PM

It was stupid. The team is down 0-2 and they were both specifically brought in to bring playoff success to Nashville. It is unacceptable, professionally speaking at the very least.

Mara 05-02-2012 07:00 PM

Well it's always possible that it's just cultural differences, but from what I've heard the KHL is even more/at least as strict as the NHL when it comes to keeping yourself in shape for the season/individual games. They tell you how to train, what to eat and when on a strict schedule. I somehow doubt that players in the KHL are allowed to go drinking so freely.

adsfan 05-02-2012 07:02 PM

[QUOTE=Mara;49170703]Well it's always possible that it's just cultural differences, but from what I've heard the KHL is even more/at least as strict as the NHL when it comes to keeping yourself in shape for the season/individual games. They tell you how to train, what to eat and when on a strict schedule. I somehow doubt that players in the KHL are allowed to go drinking so freely.[/QUOTE]

I think that you are correct. If you are trying to get something started, like a pro hockey league, the last thing you need is a bunch of drunkhead players.

torero 05-02-2012 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mara (Post 49170703)
Well it's always possible that it's just cultural differences, but from what I've heard the KHL is even more/at least as strict as the NHL when it comes to keeping yourself in shape for the season/individual games. They tell you how to train, what to eat and when on a strict schedule. I somehow doubt that players in the KHL are allowed to go drinking so freely.

That reminds me Thailand with its laws prohibiting to have pornographic journals.
It is a joke.

In the same way, the prohibition will be their. no doubt. but guys will do it, and it will be tolerated and hidden.


Besides ... they have to adjust !! don't misunderstand me !
But for this they had to understand this ocean of difference ... and that the rule is a real one in the US (like in most other western countries !)

101st_fan 05-02-2012 07:10 PM

It isn't a culture issue, it's a stupidity issue. If it were cultural, we'd see similar issues with Malkin, Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Gonchar, Anisimov, Fedotenko, etc. Some players realize they are supposed to act like grown men, some don't.

Iron Duke 05-02-2012 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 101st_fan (Post 49171109)
It isn't a culture issue, it's a stupidity issue. If it were cultural, we'd see similar issues with Malkin, Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Gonchar, Anisimov, Fedotenko, etc. Some players realize they are supposed to act like grown men, some don't.

This, absolutely. I'm not even sure whether the cultural arguments being provided are actual insights or just the reputation of what Russian culture is like. Frankly, it doesn't sound all that different from Southern California culture, or that of several metro areas, I'm sure.

Ace Rothstein 05-02-2012 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by torero (Post 49170339)
I understand that both guys broke team rules. That is not great. I fully agree with that.

Yet i wanted to give a type of cultural perspective on this affair.

In the US, the top of anti alcohol was reached in the years of prohibition. Total alcohol prohibition. Since then, rules have relaxed a bit. Yet it is still heavily sentenced to drive while being drunk. (i am not entering into the debate whether it is good or not !! i judge nothing ... ) the US remains among the countries the heaviest anti alcohol policy ... behind most muslim countries.

In Russia, to put the perspective, people drink a lot ..., but a lot means a lot !. For 2 persons, finish a 1 liter bottle of Vodka isn't a big deal. It is a nice evening where they had reasonable fun !. To be sick the next day ... is like a bit being a hero. You are forgiven. (a bit the same style than teenagers ... how was your party ? amaaaazing we drunk like ... hahaha... an now i have head ache). It must be among the most permissive countries in the world for Alcohol. On a daily basis, the alcohol excuse is a good one, for which most russians (and ex USSR block countries) have almost perfect compassion.

Just to say it. So, that they be suspended for 1 game. That is ok, it is fine. That they be no wanted anymore for the team for that ... i believe a second chance is deserved. Now that they really understood that what they did is really not good in the NHL.
Now the 2 guys really understood the cultural difference described previously.

Don't kill a monster on the rise for cultural misunderstandings !

I'm not a Preds fan but there is so a lot of incorrect information in this post that I felt compelled to respond.

1. The US has the highest drinking age in the world, besides some dry counties scattered around the country I would say there really aren't any more anti-alcohol policies.
2. Alcohol is flat out banned in most Muslim countries. In Saudi Arabia, it is punishable by lashes.
3. The US has the highest allowable BAC in the world when it comes to drunk driving. I've seen hundreds of BG Checks in my career, you'd be shocked by how many people have 3, 4 or 5 DUI's. Only recently has it become difficult to get your license back after DUI in some states.

Just to add, I feel that this was a great move by the Preds organization. It is a very well run organization and I couldn't imagine what they'd be able to put together if they were able to spend to the cap year after year.

torero 05-02-2012 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ace Rothstein (Post 49172047)
I'm not a Preds fan but there is so a lot of incorrect information in this post that I felt compelled to respond.

1. The US has the highest drinking age in the world, besides some dry counties scattered around the country I would say there really aren't any more anti-alcohol policies.
2. Alcohol is flat out banned in most Muslim countries. In Saudi Arabia, it is punishable by lashes.
3. The US has the highest allowable BAC in the world when it comes to drunk driving. I've seen hundreds of BG Checks in my career, you'd be shocked by how many people have 3, 4 or 5 DUI's. Only recently has it become difficult to get your license back after DUI in some states.

Just to add, I feel that this was a great move by the Preds organization. It is a very well run organization and I couldn't imagine what they'd be able to put together if they were able to spend to the cap year after year.

1) Muslim countries are strongly anti alcohol ... that is what i was saying.
2) i don't know the exact rules on alcohol in the US, yet i know 2 americans who have a really good level who simply went to jail for driving with alcohol. I know no other people who had such a hard sentence. That was in the US. Plus my general observation (newspapers, people's attitude) tells me that you are stongly against ...
3) Only being in the developed countries, meaning NA, Europe and East Asia makes you a hard country, the others are in practice very relaxed on this. Bribery is most often the key.
4) Possibly you are right on the % of alcohol in the blood. I do not know the details in the US ... her in Switzerland it is 0.8 g/l.
5) what has drinking age average to do with tolerance to the consequences of a hangover ?

So much about the so called mistakes !

my point being that tolerance should be given to these players. Not this nitty gritty on the rules or whatsoever.

Stylizer1 05-02-2012 08:11 PM

This has nothing to do with culture or drinking. They broke curfew. They could have been at the library coming up with strategic rebuttals to the reason why you should brush your teeth before you change a flat tire. doesn't really matter. At least they had fun while breaking curfew and not something not as fun as research.

Neal Before Zod 05-02-2012 08:29 PM

I don't think it has anything to do with the alcohol part of culture. I don't think fans mind what any of the players do on their own time. If they want to go out clubbing/drinking or anything else, I really don't care.

But this was not on their own time. This wasn't a matter of "oops, you just committed a cultural faux pas" by drinking. No matter what the reason -- the team and all of its members must be focused on the game. You can't be focused when you are out in the wee hours of the morning across town clubbing. They could've been drinking Shirley Temple's for all I care. They know better than that.

101st_fan 05-02-2012 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by torero (Post 49173069)
1) Muslim countries are strongly anti alcohol ... that is what i was saying.
2) i don't know the exact rules on alcohol in the US, yet i know 2 americans who have a really good level who simply went to jail for driving with alcohol. I know no other people who had such a hard sentence. That was in the US. Plus my general observation (newspapers, people's attitude) tells me that you are stongly against ...
3) Only being in the developed countries, meaning NA, Europe and East Asia makes you a hard country, the others are in practice very relaxed on this. Bribery is most often the key.
4) Possibly you are right on the % of alcohol in the blood. I do not know the details in the US ... her in Switzerland it is 0.8 g/l.
5) what has drinking age average to do with tolerance to the consequences of a hangover ?

So much about the so called mistakes !

my point being that tolerance should be given to these players. Not this nitty gritty on the rules or whatsoever.

Drive drunk through Germany. Their Polezei don't play around.

PK76 05-02-2012 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstreet (Post 49170509)
It was stupid. The team is down 0-2 and they were both specifically brought in to bring playoff success to Nashville. It is unacceptable, professionally speaking at the very least.

To be fair AK is the best goal scorer on the team in the playoffs and Radu had a very good first round. It was definitely stupid to do what they did and they deserve the suspension, though.

Let's see how the team does without them now.

tserberis* 05-02-2012 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 101st_fan (Post 49171109)
It isn't a culture issue, it's a stupidity issue. If it were cultural, we'd see similar issues with Malkin, Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Gonchar, Anisimov, Fedotenko, etc. Some players realize they are supposed to act like grown men, some don't.

I don't know about all of them, but I know some particular stuff about Caps players.
We have a restaurant called "Russian House" in DC close by Dupont Circle. It was really funny to watch one New Year how Taxi wouldn't pick up Semin cause he was so waisted and Ovi was holding him back so he wouldn't get into a fight.

Yes, in Russia players locked up on the base before games, so they don't do stupid stuff like that, and here they allowed to much and they take advantage of it.

golfmade 05-02-2012 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by torero (Post 49173069)
my point being that tolerance should be given to these players. Not this nitty gritty on the rules or whatsoever.

I'm proud of the Predators organization for sticking to their guns and not letting the rules slide. No one player is above the team.

MarkMM 05-02-2012 10:08 PM

1.) I don't think culture is the issue, it's not following team rules, and common sense about the commitment that professionals (geez, even amateurs) should have about putting yourself in a position to be prepared to win.

2.) Canada has a younger drinking age than the US, but using drunk driving penalties as an example of American drinking culture I don't think is accurate, in Canada, depending on the province/circumstance, you drive drunk here, you're looking at fines, losing your car, losing your driver's license and going to jail.

maplepred 05-02-2012 10:44 PM

These two didn't have the balls to show up and watch the game tonight, brutal team spirit.

golfmade 05-02-2012 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maplepred (Post 49184279)
These two didn't have the balls to show up and watch the game tonight, brutal team spirit.

They're not even in the press box? Where exactly are they then?

Fuelled by Passion 05-02-2012 11:07 PM

Not trying to promote their behavior or defend on them, but there is some info that need to be considered
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14232970

PanniniClaus 05-02-2012 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by golfmade (Post 49184441)
They're not even in the press box? Where exactly are they then?

I would say drinking beer and eating fried chicken in the dressing room.

Roman Yoshi 05-02-2012 11:13 PM

Maybe a matter of team culture, not ethnic culture

ninetynine* 05-03-2012 12:00 AM

I think it's a matter of team culture, it's interesting that AK46 was the guy who'd been a Pred all year, his brother was not, same with Radulov.

torero 05-03-2012 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ninetynine (Post 49190521)
I think it's a matter of team culture, it's interesting that AK46 was the guy who'd been a Pred all year, his brother was not, same with Radulov.

Radulov came straight from Russia.

tserberis* 05-03-2012 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maplepred (Post 49184279)
These two didn't have the balls to show up and watch the game tonight, brutal team spirit.

What are you talking about, they showed them on TV coming into Arena...


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