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-   -   Teams like the Rangers ruined this league (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=118660)

malberti* 12-14-2004 11:02 PM

Teams like the Rangers ruined this league
 
These big market owner just could not control themselves. Hockey makes little money and the Detroits, NYR', Dallas', St Louis', Toronto's have runined this league. They took it too far. And some of those teams even had embarrasing results. I mean at the trading deadline's and in the summer these teams just bought free agents and offered Ludacrious amonts of money. Thus raising every players salary. I remember how overpaid Graves, Messier(2nd time), Holik, and the rest were. Detroit bought a cup. St louis and Toronto never made it, Dallas bought most players, etc

and the players benefited......all of them.....while the small market teams wasted their time and energy trying to sell a system to their fans, etc. Well, NOW THE PARTY IS OVER. The owners will let this lockout go on till they get what they want. CONTROL OVER THEMSELVES AND THEIR GREED. And why not? They take the risk. The players have been overpaid for years. This is not baseball. There are no ratings for hockey. Even the big market Rangers TV Ratings stink! Small market teams like the Isles also then contributed to this joke of a league. Signing Yashin to 10 years 90 million(cause their pathetic ways drew every player away from that franchise) they had to act desperate and try to act like a big market team.

Its poetic justice though. The Rangers started this crap. And now look at them. They might be the worse franchise in sports. They are what you want "NOT TO BE". "This one will last a lifetime" lasted until the strike of 1995. And then they started to embarrass themselves, by being pathetic at building a team. They bought EDM players, won a cup, and then became a laughing stock. Brought down an entire league, and now they are the epitome of of the NHL. Congrats!

Kovy274Hart 12-14-2004 11:22 PM

This post just wreaks of no class. I wonder which team you like. The Devils? A team who contributed to the insane amount Holik got. What about the Islanders and their fat 9 year deal to Yashin?

You can't just blame the Rangers for this. Sure, our team contributed to the problem. But you can't forget that even smaller market teams screwed up.

Boston gave Martin Lapointe $5 million-a-year. And they're notoriously cheap. By that logic, Holik is an $8 million player.

What about Ottawa's insane contract to rookie Alex Daigle? Moronic on many levels. You don't think that factored in?

Graves deserved his raise. Yes, it was too high. But at that time, he was coming off a great season and was a premiere power forward in the game. Unfortunately, back problems contributed to his demise. He still played hard.


As far as the "buying a Cup" garbage, that's a joke. What Cup would have been won without Leetch, Zubov, Richter and Kovalev? You are an idiot. They also used some of the guys that were already Rangers to acquire key players. Guys like Turcotte, Patrick and Amonte were traded for Larmer, Kypreos, Matteau and Noonan. It worked out pretty well.

The reason the team fell apart was poor mismanagement by Smith after winning that year. He made some awful deals. Traded Tikk and Lidster to the Blues for Nedved. Traded Zubov and Nedved to the Pens a year later for Samuelsson and Robitaille. They never replaced Zubov. Traded Ferraro, Laperriere, Lafayette and Norstrom to LA for McSorley, Kurri and Churla. One of the worst deals every assembled.

These are the reasons the Rangers didn't win another Cup. If they had kept that '94 team together, I guarantee you they would have gotten to another final.


And you claim Detroit bought their Cups??? What a bunch of nonsense that is! Try telling that to one of the best captains ever in Steve Yzerman. Try telling that to Sergei Fedorov and Nicklas Lidstrom. Even Chris Osgood had a hand in winning one of their Cups. And Slava Kozlov had a hand in all three. Holmstrom was on a couple of the winners as well.

Without those players, the Red Wings don't win.


That's why your theory is garbage.

And you know what else? If you look at our organization now compared to what it was a couple of years ago, it's in much better shape. Here's a newsflash for you and all the Ranger haters: We're going to be a team to be reckoned with in a few years.

So, whenever the new CBA comes down, I don't have any worries. We have a wealth of prospects and talent that will make people like you drool.


Enjoy.

Dantonius 12-14-2004 11:29 PM

He's an Islanders fan. I know it might be difficult to harness your bias against the Devils, but...

Theoren Fan 12-14-2004 11:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malberti
the Detroits, NYR', Dallas', St Louis', Toronto's have runined this league.

They also happen to be the most popular teams in the league, and without them there wouldn't be any product that people would want to watch. Sigh, looks like just another case of an Islander fan bringing their lil brother complex down on the big bad Rangers. Yawn.

malberti* 12-14-2004 11:31 PM

The Rangers Organization stinks. Every body including Rangers fans(knowledeable) know that. That is obvious. The Devils are a great organization. Everone know s that, including Rangers abd Isles, and Philly fans. This is not about that. If you read my post, Isaid the Isles screwed up with Yashin, but keep in mind they had a below payroll for 12 years. They are not on the Rangers level in terms of salary structure. Don't blame the Isles. They have other problems, like making a profit. The Rangers on the other hand not only contributed this mess. They led the charge. and now they have an organization filled with hole, and career minor leaguers, etc. All of thier buying led to ONE stanley Cup, which lasted for a NY minute(so to speak)
How can you realistically put down the Devils. They are a organization that should be the standard in the NHL. The Rangers are not close to that and we all know it. Detrit, Dallas, Toronto, etc are not much better.......we are paying the price cause of theams like the NY Rangers. And now I hope the players sqeal and take it hard. Cause this is lasting Two years. the NHL and there .08 ratings can take it up there as*'s......They created this mess. Messier 5 mil per year...lol

Kovy274Hart 12-14-2004 11:34 PM

In addition to our team's offersheet to Sakic, Karmanos gave Fedorov a similar one.

You want to blame the teams for this mess? Fine. But what about the fact that these same owners under Bettman's leadership signed off on the deal to finalize the CBA? They setup the system and it backfired.

That's why the situation is what it is now.

Graveytrain 12-14-2004 11:36 PM

Although the problems today are mainly economic, IMO it did not start out that way

Changes instituted such as expansion, the instigator rule have had a chilling and snowballing effect... diluting the talent tool, eating at the fabric of the game.... creating a gap between player 1 and player 20 that did not seem to exist before....So when you have 4 guys on your team that probably don't belong in the league, can do nothing but skate and get in someones way, was it wonder that the elite players began to command the salaries they did? When you have no talent nobodys occupying your bottom 4-6 roster spots... the game breakers are worth that much more

Thanks Gary

malberti* 12-14-2004 11:42 PM

this lockout will last for years. I will never forget the BUYING Neil Smith was doing. Just shelling out big money to bad players. He was a disgrace. Hockey produces little money. This league became 4 teams that could spend what they want.....a few middle teams, and the rest just getting the scraps. Its amazing how the Rangers did not win more, It reaklly is when u think about it. I mean they haven't even come close since 1994. They had the Highest payroll by far. Just amazing.

But Its not just the Rangers. The owners signed a bad CBA in 1995. They will not make that mistake twice. This will last a long time. They will squeeze evry penny out of the union. I wonder if Neill Smith is laughing now. Sather became a bigger joke with all the losing. The Rangers have looked like an expansion team. The money got out of hand and the Rangers got worse. unbelieveable

Graveytrain 12-14-2004 11:42 PM

also little things like no tag up off sides, and needless whistles for any reason... all of which stop any flow and speed the game has...making it nothing more then a stop and go traffic jam...

Kovy274Hart 12-14-2004 11:42 PM

I don't know if I can take this Isles fan seriously. The Holik contract was the end result of his former team's stupidity not re-signing him when they had a chance the year prior. He offered to sign up for significantly less. But instead, they forced him to arbitration and the end result was a nasty negotiation which the Devils won comparing him to lesser players.

The Devils never anticipated that Holik would have a big year and lead them in many categories. That raised the bar. And when that happened, even Lamoriello was offering Holik a huge raise that contributed to his final contract. So, you can't take the Devils off the hook for that. People like to say it was just our team that overpaid Bobby. But the truth is the Devils were right in there going dollar for dollar with the Rangers, Flyers and Leafs. So, if the shoe fits, then wear it.

They also have a $60 million payroll at present. How is that positive when the league wants economic change?

If an organization like theirs can't control their payroll, you know the system needs changing.

Dantonius 12-14-2004 11:46 PM

To be fair, Kovy, the Devils' payroll hovering around $60 million is more indicative of how the economy has not been working. If you do draft well and assemble a very strong core, it becomes impossible (for a team with a generally MODEST budget, at least) to keep that core together without having your payroll spiral out of control (which then yields obvious results).

How many teams in sports can you honestly say are more well-run than they are?

malberti* 12-14-2004 11:51 PM

the devils have an organization of drat choices. They are the standard. I am not a Devil fan. its a fact. They outclass most NHL teams, including the Blueshirts. The Rangers are a terrible organization. we all know that. Just look at that mess. Holik was signed as a free agent by the rangers for I think close to 9 mil a year. what a laugh! Why bllmae NJ. They drafted him, nurtured him, and became champions with thier own player. The Rangers stole him, and got it in the rear, for the simple fact that Holik is a step slower, and is obviously overrated.

There is no doubt the Rangers are a symbol of what is wrong in the NHL. They have recently started to rebuild. Can u imagine the Rangers drafting a player and that player playing for the Rangers for more than 3 years. It willl be a welcomed relief. Its time for that franchise to wipe the egg off there faces, and start to build something that resembles an NHL team. BTW....get rid of Messier already. he has been such a waste of money and time. Sather has to go as well. He has been terrible. He killed that team

Graveytrain 12-14-2004 11:59 PM

for the simple fact that Holik is a step slower, and is obviously overrated.

Really, his 25 goals, 56 points were just 9 points and 4 goals shy of his career highs of 7 years ago...

you can quit your charade anytime now, as if NY was offerring twice as much as any other suitor... fact is NJ and Toronto made similar offers and in Toronto's case an almost identical offer...

malberti* 12-15-2004 12:03 AM

56 points ?? wow!! oh boy!! 9 million for 56 points hahahahha
plus a public complaint after every game. wow, he is really good. whats that $200000.00 per point. Cut it out. quit the buying. its embarrassing.


stop sticking up for the Holik signing. It was terrible. gawd!

Graveytrain 12-15-2004 12:07 AM

I addressed your statement that Holik has lost a step and is overrated... neither of which are true... nowhere did i say he isn't overpaid

He is perhaps more unique then any player in the game, because there isn't another like him, for that he is not overated... of course he's overpaid... :shakehead

most of the league is... and there were other teams lining up to "overpay" Holik as well

Kovy274Hart 12-15-2004 12:13 AM

LOL... Holik wasn't drafted by the Devils. Try the Hartford Whalers. He was acquired along with a draft pick (selected Jay Pandolfo) in exchange for Sean Burke and Eric Weinrich.

Nice try though.

Graveytrain 12-15-2004 12:16 AM

Wait, but they " nurtured " him.... or caressed him or whatever...

so much so he had to practically beg for quality ice time...

tml_4ever 12-15-2004 12:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malberti
Hockey makes little money and the Detroits, NYR', Dallas', St Louis', Toronto's have runined this league.

And uh... NYI hasn't? The last time i recalled, that "Alexei CASHIN'" guy was still your property... :shakehead:

:troll:

NYR2 12-15-2004 02:02 AM

malberti, go take a long walk off a short pier and take that garbage talk with you. Thanks. :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kovy274Hart
I don't know if I can take this Isles fan seriously.

I'm pretty sure I've seen this person posting around other places and trust me, you shouldn't take him seriously.

Quote:

Originally Posted by malberti
The Rangers are a terrible organization. we all know that. Just look at that mess.

They're trying to fix that so please just let it go already. What was the point of coming in here and bashing the Rangers on a Ranger board, especially when they're not even playing hockey? You must be pretty bored.

Quote:

Originally Posted by malberti
Its time for that franchise to wipe the egg off there faces, and start to build something that resembles an NHL team.

Right on...why do you care again? :dunno:

Quote:

Originally Posted by malberti
BTW....get rid of Messier already. he has been such a waste of money and time.

Messier? What in the world are you talking about? There isn't even a freakin season being played right now and you're talking about getting rid of Mess? You're grasping now, give it up already.

se7en* 12-15-2004 02:36 AM

I don't know why, but I feel some strange unspoken partnership with the Rangers. They're very popular in Edmonton too. Probably because all the ex-Oilers. Is it their fault? Nah. Bad decisions from owners, agents, & players are to blame, not any specific team.

I would agree that rich teams have the best chance to win Stanley, but saying that they 'bought it' really undermines the hard work and dedication it takes for any team to win, not just the large-markets.

tml_4ever 12-15-2004 03:08 AM

Cyao, troll! :troll:

10...

9...

8.......

Safir* 12-15-2004 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kovy274Hart
In addition to our team's offersheet to Sakic, Karmanos gave Fedorov a similar one..

That only half the truth on Feds. Rutherford (Carolina) made Feds that crasy offer and left Karmonos no chance, but to match it. Detroit could have gotten Carolina's five first round picks in exchange.

pld459666 12-15-2004 06:39 AM

malberti
 
The Rangers made the mistake of making an absurd offer to one player that had a direct effect on the overall landscape of the NHL and that was to Sakic in 97.

That offer was what may have started things, but what the Islanders did with Yashin and Peca was even more absurd.

Both players were more easily comparable to other players in the NHL simply because neither are on the same level as Sakic, then or now.

Both players held out for certain amounts that their previous teams were not willing to meet, yet the Islanders acquired both players and gave them both MORE than they were worth.

Holik on the other hand was offered 8 million+ byt both NJ and Tor. The Rangers felt and I feel the same way that they needed that type of player and agreed to the extra million to nail down the player you need and want. The Holik contract can't be looked at when Elias or Iginla negotiate their contracts simply because they have not reached that level of total Free Agency. The contracts that they look at, Yashin. John Madden? Peca although he could have really raked the Devils over the coals by becomming a UFA this past summer, he did the right thing in my opinion.

As for your other comments, thanks Mr. Obvious. The Devils and Senators are the model that all teams should try to emulate, like we didn't know that.

Safir* 12-15-2004 07:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pld459666
That offer was what may have started things, but what the Islanders did with Yashin and Peca was even more absurd.

Both players were more easily comparable to other players in the NHL simply because neither are on the same level as Sakic, then or now.

Both players held out for certain amounts that their previous teams were not willing to meet, yet the Islanders acquired both players and gave them both MORE than they were worth.

Peca hold out before he got delt to the Isles, while Yashin played in the season before being send to NY. Yashin had 88 points and 94 points (Hart Trophy nominee that year) two years before that (with the holdout year in between.)

Quote:

Holik on the other hand was offered 8 million+ byt both NJ and Tor. The Rangers felt and I feel the same way that they needed that type of player and agreed to the extra million to nail down the player you need and want. The Holik contract can't be looked at when Elias or Iginla negotiate their contracts simply because they have not reached that level of total Free Agency. The contracts that they look at, Yashin. John Madden? Peca although he could have really raked the Devils over the coals by becomming a UFA this past summer, he did the right thing in my opinion.
I knew that Toronto offered Holik 8 million, but the Devils. Can you provide a link that supports your claim?

SingnBluesOnBroadway 12-15-2004 07:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malberti
These big market owner just could not control themselves. Hockey makes little money and the Detroits, NYR', Dallas', St Louis', Toronto's have runined this league. They took it too far. And some of those teams even had embarrasing results. I mean at the trading deadline's and in the summer these teams just bought free agents and offered Ludacrious amonts of money. Thus raising every players salary. I remember how overpaid Graves, Messier(2nd time), Holik, and the rest were. Detroit bought a cup. St louis and Toronto never made it, Dallas bought most players, etc

and the players benefited......all of them.....while the small market teams wasted their time and energy trying to sell a system to their fans, etc. Well, NOW THE PARTY IS OVER. The owners will let this lockout go on till they get what they want. CONTROL OVER THEMSELVES AND THEIR GREED. And why not? They take the risk. The players have been overpaid for years. This is not baseball. There are no ratings for hockey. Even the big market Rangers TV Ratings stink! Small market teams like the Isles also then contributed to this joke of a league. Signing Yashin to 10 years 90 million(cause their pathetic ways drew every player away from that franchise) they had to act desperate and try to act like a big market team.

Its poetic justice though. The Rangers started this crap. And now look at them. They might be the worse franchise in sports. They are what you want "NOT TO BE". "This one will last a lifetime" lasted until the strike of 1995. And then they started to embarrass themselves, by being pathetic at building a team. They bought EDM players, won a cup, and then became a laughing stock. Brought down an entire league, and now they are the epitome of of the NHL. Congrats!

And the Isles had nothing to do with this? Yashin is not only the worst contract in the game it is the worst RFA contract ever with unprecidented money and length. All for a guy who sat out because the Senators (who you laud) were not paying him enough. But sure enough, here come the Islanders who give him an outrageous contract (not to mention what they sent back to the Sens).

Have the Rangers added to the problem? Of course but really who hasn't?

Phoenix signing Amonte, then realizing they can't afford him and dealing him away as soon as they could?

Florida giving Pavel Bure 10M a season?

Washington giving Jagr 12M?

The Canes signing Federov to an offer sheet that they knew would add at least 3M to his contract should the Wings match it.

Even the Devils could have kept Holik for 5M per but didn't and wound up bidding as high as 8M per.

So turn the page, we've all seen this one before and look at what your team has done to put things where they are now.


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