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-   -   Speculation: Iggy (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1187663)

Latrappe 05-10-2012 08:34 AM

Iggy
 
Bruins fan, here...

Let's speculate that the Flames are ready to trade Iggy, what would be a fair trade proposal. Just keep in my mind that the trade have to make sense for both side. Fire away !

The Gnome 05-10-2012 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latrappe (Post 49533457)
Bruins fan, here...

Let's speculate that the Flames are ready to trade Iggy, what would be a fair trade proposal. Just keep in my mind that the trade have to make sense for both side. Fire away !

2 out of your 5 best prospects and your 1st round pick. If you need to make cap room then add a roster player. If said roster player is a decent player remove one of the prospects / 1st rounder.

The problem is that Feaster has been saying that he wants to get younger players in the 21-26 year range, not prospects. So I'm assuming he would be targeting a player you guys do not want to give up.

I know you said speculate, but I really do not think Iggy is going anywhere. I believe most fans around here would agree with me.

Gary83* 05-10-2012 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latrappe (Post 49533457)
Bruins fan, here...

Let's speculate that the Flames are ready to trade Iggy, what would be a fair trade proposal. Just keep in my mind that the trade have to make sense for both side. Fire away !

If he was to be moved at the draft I would want from Boston:

Spooner
Caron or Khokhlachev
2012 1st

Would rather have Khokhlachev over Caron as I think he has the better skill set/upside.

If we were to take Caron I'd like to see Calgary maybe squeak 2012 or '13 second rounder.

Hopefully Oates2Neely doesn't come in here sporting his Calgary trolling crap, would much prefer that mega ****** just keeps to the main boards.

Stewie Griffin 05-10-2012 09:29 AM

Thing is though, Iginla won't be traded in a situation where a team doesn't overpay, making your requirement of "fair" moot.

Perro 05-10-2012 01:27 PM

I know a lot of fans are howling for a rebuild asap. However I think trading Iggy makes the most sense at the deadline where GM's always overpay for guys on 1 year contracts. Just look at what Gaustad got.
At the Deadline the flames will likely be able to get a 1st, a roster player, and a great proispect minimum. Plus it will be easier for the other team to obsorb his cap hit as it will be mostly paid.
You do not often see big name goalies traded as rentals at the deadline so I think that if they wish to trade Kipper it should be in the off season. It has been posted all over the place but I feel that a deal with Chicago for Crawford and a prospect would make a lot of sense.

Gary83* 05-10-2012 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perro (Post 49544105)
I know a lot of fans are howling for a rebuild asap. However I think trading Iggy makes the most sense at the deadline where GM's always overpay for guys on 1 year contracts. Just look at what Gaustad got.
At the Deadline the flames will likely be able to get a 1st, a roster player, and a great proispect minimum. Plus it will be easier for the other team to obsorb his cap hit as it will be mostly paid.
You do not often see big name goalies traded as rentals at the deadline so I think that if they wish to trade Kipper it should be in the off season. It has been posted all over the place but I feel that a deal with Chicago for Crawford and a prospect would make a lot of sense.

Good post.

I really feel like the Flames will want to see what sort of impact Baertschi is going to have on this team next year. If Baertschi can help cover for what will no doubt will be a slow 20 game start for Iggy then it's entirely possible that we're in the playoff race from the start, not starting at the bottom of the west and working our way up - which has been the case the last two years.

We'll also have a full year of Cammy and an unknown right now in Cervenka.

Coach Parker 05-10-2012 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary83 (Post 49534195)
If he was to be moved at the draft I would want from Boston:

Spooner
Caron or Khokhlachev
2012 1st

Would rather have Khokhlachev over Caron as I think he has the better skill set/upside.

If we were to take Caron I'd like to see Calgary maybe squeak 2012 or '13 second rounder.

Hopefully Oates2Neely doesn't come in here sporting his Calgary trolling crap, would much prefer that mega ****** just keeps to the main boards.

Yeah, this is what we discussed about a week ago and went back and forth until we came to this. Works for what both teams actually want and need, and not scraps.

Perro 05-10-2012 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gary83 (Post 49544339)
Good post.

I really feel like the Flames will want to see what sort of impact Baertschi is going to have on this team next year. If Baertschi can help cover for what will no doubt will be a slow 20 game start for Iggy then it's entirely possible that we're in the playoff race from the start, not starting at the bottom of the west and working our way up - which has been the case the last two years.

We'll also have a full year of Cammy and an unknown right now in Cervenka.

Cammy had a brutal year last year stats and injury wise. Hopefully you get a full year from him.
Cervenka was a good signing. Low risk with potentially high reward.

Coach Parker 05-10-2012 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perro (Post 49544105)
I know a lot of fans are howling for a rebuild asap. However I think trading Iggy makes the most sense at the deadline where GM's always overpay for guys on 1 year contracts. Just look at what Gaustad got.
At the Deadline the flames will likely be able to get a 1st, a roster player, and a great proispect minimum. Plus it will be easier for the other team to obsorb his cap hit as it will be mostly paid.
You do not often see big name goalies traded as rentals at the deadline so I think that if they wish to trade Kipper it should be in the off season. It has been posted all over the place but I feel that a deal with Chicago for Crawford and a prospect would make a lot of sense.

At the deadline the Flames will be within 4 points of 8th and will have once again convinced themselves that they are a playoff team. Then when the fall once again happens the value of Iginla will be down to nothing.

I am simply going on what has happened year after year. Every team is adding a prospect and developing along with Calgary as well. I'd also wager that points from Edmonton, Colorado and Minnesota are going to be harder to come by.

The Gnome 05-10-2012 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coach Parker (Post 49551219)
At the deadline the Flames will be within 4 points of 8th and will have once again convinced themselves that they are a playoff team. Then when the fall once again happens the value of Iginla will be down to nothing.

I am simply going on what has happened year after year. Every team is adding a prospect and developing along with Calgary as well. I'd also wager that points from Edmonton, Colorado and Minnesota are going to be harder to come by.

If they were going to trade him, now would be the time. I really doubt it though, if any big name comes out of CGY this year it will be Kipper.

Medium Rare* 05-10-2012 05:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latrappe (Post 49533457)
Bruins fan, here...

Let's speculate that the Flames are ready to trade Iggy, what would be a fair trade proposal. Just keep in my mind that the trade have to make sense for both side. Fire away !

I've said it before and will say it again, if Hamilton is not available neither is Iggy. I would want Hamilton + your 2012 1st as a starting point for Iggy, Bruins fans seem to think Hamilton is untouchable so its a non-starter IMO.

MVW 05-10-2012 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gnome (Post 49551449)
If they were going to trade him, now would be the time. I really doubt it though, if any big name comes out of CGY this year it will be Kipper.

I think alot of that depends on whether or not they can get Ramo over here next season. I actually think that Gio is the most likely to be moved at this point as he would be the easiest to replace via FA compared to Iggy or Kipper. I do think its almost a certainty that one of Iggy, Kipper or Gio is going to be moved though, if that does not happen then you cannot significantly reshape the identity of this team. Every other deal would be a lateral trade.

InfinityIggy 05-10-2012 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latrappe (Post 49533457)
Bruins fan, here...

Let's speculate that the Flames are ready to trade Iggy, what would be a fair trade proposal. Just keep in my mind that the trade have to make sense for both side. Fire away !

If we are moving the (arguably) most important player in our Franchises history, we better be getting something great back.

Go big or go home, I would ask for Hamilton in a straight up deal.

MVW 05-10-2012 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medium Rare (Post 49552689)
I've said it before and will say it again, if Hamilton is not available neither is Iggy. I would want Hamilton + your 2012 1st as a starting point for Iggy, Bruins fans seem to think Hamilton is untouchable so its a non-starter IMO.

We've had this discussion before but I would settle for both Khokhlachev and Spooner. While they may not be considered that 'bluechip' prospect, they both have top line potential in their game because they are both so skilled. There is always a risk that even the best of prospects turn out to be busts (I'm still not sold on what kind of player B. Schenn is going to be) so by acquiring 2 young players of this caliber, we are increasing our odds that at least one of these guys is going to reach their potential.

L. Schenn is another example, when he walked to the podium on draft day, Magiure was saying how he was going to be the future captain of the Leafs. While is a good young dman, he also was once thought of as a bluechip prospect (similar to Hamilton), however he has actually regressed somewhat this past season IMO.

I also look at a guy like Reinhart that we drafted later that has elevated his status as a prospect. Khokhlachev and Spooner have both really developed nicely since being drafted and like Reinhart have really elevated their status as prospects. If we obtained these guys, they would instantly be rated #1 and #2 on our depth charts going into next season assuming Baertschi is playing on the big club. Again, I think by getting both of these guys AND a 1st, we are adding 3 top end talents to our organization by moving one player, and we are increasing our chances of developing top end talent from within our organization.

Again, I understand your points for wanting Hamilton and you are right in your thinking. But personally I would rather get both Khokhlachev and Spooner than just Hamilton and lesser parts.

CGYPUKSUX 05-10-2012 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfinityIggy (Post 49558351)
If we are moving the (arguably) most important player in our Franchises history, we better be getting something great back.

Teams considering trading for Iginla don't care what he has done for the Calgary Flames or what he has meant to the Flames in the past. They care about what Iginla will potentially do for them in the next one to four years. Iginla is likely to score 70-100 goals over the next four seasons, so any return will be based on that, not the 500+ he's scored in the past.

Quote:

Go big or go home, I would ask for Hamilton in a straight up deal.
Yeah, you're not getting a player of Hamilton's potential for Iginla. Yes, Iginla has been one of the best players during the past decade, but teams are not paying for what he has done for the Flames, they are paying for he could do for them. I think you could get a couple of good assets for him, but not a bluechipper. I'd take Caron and a first, hope you can squeeze another asset out of Boston, and not look back. Unfortunately, the Flames are a real sentimental bunch and will hold on to Iginla. They better hope he doesn't bolt next summer and leave them with nothing to show for him.

HighLifeMan 05-10-2012 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX (Post 49563435)
Teams considering trading for Iginla don't care what he has done for the Calgary Flames or what he has meant to the Flames in the past. They care about what Iginla will potentially do for them in the next one to four years. Iginla is likely to score 70-100 goals over the next four seasons, so any return will be based on that, not the 500+ he's scored in the past.



Yeah, you're not getting a player of Hamilton's potential for Iginla. Yes, Iginla has been one of the best players during the past decade, but teams are not paying for what he has done for the Flames, they are paying for he could do for them. I think you could get a couple of good assets for him, but not a bluechipper. I'd take Caron and a first, hope you can squeeze another asset out of Boston, and not look back. Unfortunately, the Flames are a real sentimental bunch and will hold on to Iginla. They better hope he doesn't bolt next summer and leave them with nothing to show for him.

That maybe so, but it absolutely has an affect on his trade value to the Calgary Flames.

Jordan Caron + 1st does NOT get a deal done from a Calgary perspective.
I understand you are trying to be realistic, but that offer simply does not help Calgary at all.

That's actually a pretty terrible offer from my perspective. A late first + An equivilent prospect to Greg Nemisz is not enough to justify trading #12.

The Gnome 05-11-2012 09:23 AM

I just don't get it. I know Iggy is older now, but he is one of the best bets for 30+ goals in the entire leauge. Even on a team as bad as the flames.

Seriously, if we trade him, I'm expecting a huge return at this point. Because the guy has not regressed much at all and his physical condition is top notch, even at his age. He still has at least 3 more solid years baring a major injury, that is worth a ton for a cup contending team. I honestly think flames fans have been spoiled for so long with a guy like Iggy that they don't even recognize how good he is anymore. What a ****ing shame. :shakehead

I understand Bruins fans cannot afford a guy like Hamilton because of their prospect depth at that position. But in reality, GM's would pay top dollar to land a guy of Iggy's character and calibre, even if he only has a few more years in the tank. He's that good, period.

InfinityIggy 05-11-2012 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CGYPUKSUX (Post 49563435)
Teams considering trading for Iginla don't care what he has done for the Calgary Flames or what he has meant to the Flames in the past. They care about what Iginla will potentially do for them in the next one to four years. Iginla is likely to score 70-100 goals over the next four seasons, so any return will be based on that, not the 500+ he's scored in the past.



Yeah, you're not getting a player of Hamilton's potential for Iginla. Yes, Iginla has been one of the best players during the past decade, but teams are not paying for what he has done for the Flames, they are paying for he could do for them. I think you could get a couple of good assets for him, but not a bluechipper. I'd take Caron and a first, hope you can squeeze another asset out of Boston, and not look back. Unfortunately, the Flames are a real sentimental bunch and will hold on to Iginla. They better hope he doesn't bolt next summer and leave them with nothing to show for him.

Thats fine, we will just keep him then and use him to rear our younger players. I have no problem with that either.

MVW 05-11-2012 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gnome (Post 49571709)
I just don't get it. I know Iggy is older now, but he is one of the best bets for 30+ goals in the entire leauge. Even on a team as bad as the flames.

Seriously, if we trade him, I'm expecting a huge return at this point. Because the guy has not regressed much at all and his physical condition is top notch, even at his age. He still has at least 3 more solid years baring a major injury, that is worth a ton for a cup contending team. I honestly think flames fans have been spoiled for so long with a guy like Iggy that they don't even recognize how good he is anymore. What a ****ing shame. :shakehead

I understand Bruins fans cannot afford a guy like Hamilton because of their prospect depth at that position. But in reality, GM's would pay top dollar to land a guy of Iggy's character and calibre, even if he only has a few more years in the tank. He's that good, period.

IMO, the only thing that lowers his value from landing a Hamilton is his contract length. What if the B's sent us Hamilton and it doesn't work out for in Boston and he walks at the end of the season?

Calculon 05-11-2012 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVW (Post 49582727)
IMO, the only thing that lowers his value from landing a Hamilton is his contract length. What if the B's sent us Hamilton and it doesn't work out for in Boston and he walks at the end of the season?

More problematic for interested GM's is the idea of giving up big assets for Iginla only to have the season canceled by a lockout and then have him walk without ever having played for them.

It was speculated that GM's would insist upon speaking to Iginla about signing an extension before they would trade for him.

The Gnome 05-11-2012 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVW (Post 49582727)
IMO, the only thing that lowers his value from landing a Hamilton is his contract length. What if the B's sent us Hamilton and it doesn't work out for in Boston and he walks at the end of the season?

Very good point. but I would think that Iggy is a pretty candid guy. There would be talks between him and another franchise about what he wants for his future, I would hope anyways.

If he wants to come back to CGY, then yes that certainly would hinder his trade value. But then at least if you trade him, you know that if you takes less, iggy will still be coming back as an FA. So really you only lose a year of Iggy. I would be willing to take less if that was the case.

Neilio 05-11-2012 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gnome (Post 49571709)
I understand Bruins fans cannot afford a guy like Hamilton because of their prospect depth at that position. But in reality, GM's would pay top dollar to land a guy of Iggy's character and calibre, even if he only has a few more years in the tank. He's that good, period.

The Bruins could afford it. The fans may not want to give up a top prospect. But they are in cup contention mode now. That window doesn't last forever. Iginla could well put them back at the top for the next few years. If they stay put, Hamilton is 3 or 4 years away from realizing his potential, and that window is probably shut by then. He's a good prospect, but he's not helping them win the cup with this cluster of players, unless its a limited role.

If I'm the Bruins management, I think this is exactly the time to make this kind of trade. Make another few runs at the cup. Try to draft another d-man in the meantime, or trade some other pieces to fill in the gaps.

Xelstyle 05-11-2012 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neilio (Post 49586967)
The Bruins could afford it. The fans may not want to give up a top prospect. But they are in cup contention mode now. That window doesn't last forever. Iginla could well put them back at the top for the next few years. If they stay put, Hamilton is 3 or 4 years away from realizing his potential, and that window is probably shut by then. He's a good prospect, but he's not helping them win the cup with this cluster of players, unless its a limited role.

If I'm the Bruins management, I think this is exactly the time to make this kind of trade. Make another few runs at the cup. Try to draft another d-man in the meantime, or trade some other pieces to fill in the gaps.

Just to go on the Bruins side, I'm sure they'll be more willing to give up those future pieces instead of Hamilton, who is closer to being on the main squad than anybody else at the moment.
Problem is, that's the main thing the Flames are looking for too.

MVW 05-11-2012 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gnome (Post 49586299)
Very good point. but I would think that Iggy is a pretty candid guy. There would be talks between him and another franchise about what he wants for his future, I would hope anyways.

If he wants to come back to CGY, then yes that certainly would hinder his trade value. But then at least if you trade him, you know that if you takes less, iggy will still be coming back as an FA. So really you only lose a year of Iggy. I would be willing to take less if that was the case.

Sign and trade scenerio's are usually quite rare in the NHL, but I agree that with Iginla it is a special circumstance. Iginla is arguably the most classiest guy in the NHL and if he told Chiarelli that he would resign in Boston then I would fully expect him to do so. I think at this point in Iginla's career he wants a) stability and b) a chance to win the Cup each year. He has buddies in Boston, I could see him fitting in quite nicely there and especially with their style of play.

My only point was, if you rewind to last offseason Iginla's trade value was at a premium. He just came off a fantastic season and had 2 year's left on his deal (which is important). The problem was the B's just won the Cup and had no reason to give up significant assets for him. I can't see any team being a better fit for Iginla than Boston, I just think Feaster needs to listen when Chiarelli calls him and if the 'right' deal comes along I am all for it! I would definitely be cheering my ass off every game the B's played especially in the quest for the Cup.

@ Calculon, that's a very legitimate concern and something I'm sure a GM calling about Iginla would need to consider and work around before making a deal. Again as mentioned, Iggy is as honorable as they come and I'm sure they could work around those obstacles.

CGYPUKSUX 05-12-2012 09:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighLifeMan (Post 49564035)
That maybe so, but it absolutely has an affect on his trade value to the Calgary Flames.

It shouldn't. There is no room in sports for sentimentality IMO, not with limited roster sizes and salary caps. The days where you could have Lanny playing inspirational leader are kind of gone, especially when its a big salary.

Quote:

Jordan Caron + 1st does NOT get a deal done from a Calgary perspective.
I understand you are trying to be realistic, but that offer simply does not help Calgary at all.
Caron and the player selected this draft looks a helluva lot better than nothing, and that is the direction the Flames are headed with Iginla. It's a replay of the Sundin situation all over again. Unless the Flames announce a 3 year $10 million extension come July 1st they are setting themselves up for a train wreck after another non-playoff year. What incentive will Iginla have to stay here? None. He's going to have his number retired regardless of where he retires, so why stick around and finish on a loser? He bolts the Flames have nothing to show for their investment. The "glorious" memories of Iginla will also remain regardless of where he retires, so the sentimentality argument is moot.

Quote:

That's actually a pretty terrible offer from my perspective. A late first + An equivilent prospect to Greg Nemisz is not enough to justify trading #12.
That's likely what he's worth. Getting another Greg Nemisz, who is a pretty good hockey player with lots of room to grow, would be a helluva lot better than a kick in the teeth.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gnome (Post 49571709)
I just don't get it. I know Iggy is older now, but he is one of the best bets for 30+ goals in the entire leauge. Even on a team as bad as the flames.

Has been. You left out "has been" one of the best 30+ goal scorers. There are no guarantees going forward. I personally do not believe Iginla will break 30 goals again in his career and is trending to 20-25 goals in a couple of seasons after being close to 30 the this next season and possibly the one after. He's got probably 75-100 goals left in him. That's what you're paying for, not the past accomplishments.

Quote:

Seriously, if we trade him, I'm expecting a huge return at this point.
You're going to be very disappointed. What would you give up for a player that will score 75-100 goals over the next three or four seasons?

And if you think those numbers are bunk you better set your expectations by looking at the players who scored 500+ goals in the NHL and look at their numbers and trends in the later years of their careers.

[/QUOTE]Because the guy has not regressed much at all and his physical condition is top notch, even at his age. [/QUOTE]

Hasn't regressed much? Huh? He's lost several steps, which is why he cherry picks so much. He's no longer physically dominating, which is why he spins to the half boards almost every time he enters the zone or tries to makes 1,000 dekes and loses the puck. He's no longer that intimidating presence when he takes the ice, with his physical play or his intensity. He's even lost his ability to overpower the goaltender with his shot on the rush. The one thing about Iginla's game that does remain is his quick release. He still has that going for him, but beyond that, Iginla has seen his game deteriorate with age, just like all players who hit 30 and then 35.

Quote:

He still has at least 3 more solid years baring a major injury, that is worth a ton for a cup contending team. I honestly think flames fans have been spoiled for so long with a guy like Iggy that they don't even recognize how good he is anymore. What a ****ing shame. :shakehead
History seems to say otherwise about player viability. We have been spoiled watching Iginla, but the time has come to move him and move on. The team will not change its culture and identity as long as Iginla is around and this team desperately needs both.

Quote:

I understand Bruins fans cannot afford a guy like Hamilton because of their prospect depth at that position. But in reality, GM's would pay top dollar to land a guy of Iggy's character and calibre, even if he only has a few more years in the tank. He's that good, period.
I think the best comparable would be Bourque in Boston and his deal out of there. Was Bourque and Andreychuk for Rolston, Grenier, Pahlsson and a 1st a top dollar?

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfinityIggy (Post 49574483)
Thats fine, we will just keep him then and use him to rear our younger players. I have no problem with that either.

That's the last thing this team needs. If the rumblings from past coaches mean anything there is a problem in the room and you do not want that problem to rub off on the young players. This team needs a change of direction and that will only start with Iginla's departure. The same arguments about keeping Iginla are the same ones people made about keeping Fleury. There comes a time when a player needs to move on, for the team's sake and for the player's sake. That time has come with Iginla. We can celebrate his past successes when they hoist his jersey to the rafters, but moving forward it would be best if he played elsewhere and the Flames focused on building a new core and a new identity.


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