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-   -   Proposal: Plekanec, Gorges, 2012 2nd, Weber for Kane, Jimmy Hayes (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1191441)

Drydenwasthebest 05-16-2012 07:50 PM

Plekanec, Gorges, 2012 2nd, Weber for Kane, Jimmy Hayes
 
As the title states, how do fans feel about this one?

Plekanec, Gorges, Weber, 2012 2nd

For

Kane and Jimmy Hayes

Hawks get great 2nd line center, top defensive d-man, young developing d-man, 2012 2nd rounder.

Habs get great young winger with skill, and a young developing winger with size.

Comments?

UniverStalinGraduate* 05-16-2012 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest (Post 49791983)
As the title states, how do fans feel about this one?

Plekanec, Gorges, Weber, 2012 2nd

For

Kane and Jimmy Hayes

Hawks get great 2nd line center, top defensive d-man, young developing d-man, 2012 2nd rounder.

Habs get great young winger with skill, and a young developing winger with size.

Comments?

I don't think this would be a smart move for the Habs. That 2nd rounder is crazy valuable, Kane is neither a center, big, nor a big time goal scorer and he has character issues. Hayes is nothing, a throw in worth as much as Weber.

Pleaknec, Gorges and the 32nd (Jersey will forfeit their pick) for Kane

No thanks.

Jack de la Hoya 05-16-2012 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest (Post 49791983)
As the title states, how do fans feel about this one?

Plekanec, Gorges, Weber, 2012 2nd

For

Kane and Jimmy Hayes

Hawks get great 2nd line center, top defensive d-man, young developing d-man, 2012 2nd rounder.

Habs get great young winger with skill, and a young developing winger with size.

Comments?

An (aging) 2C and a good second-pairing defenseman for a 23 year-old, PPG RW? Seems a bit light.

I don't think it is a deal either side does, but it would have to be the 3rd OA + ...

MXD 05-16-2012 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeh82 (Post 49792117)
An (aging) 2C and a good second-pairing defenseman for a 23 year-old, PPG RW? Seems a bit light.

I don't think it is a deal either side does, but it would have to be the 3rd OA + ...

You're not getting the 3rd overall, nor a high 1st rounder for Kane (at this moment).

Jack de la Hoya 05-16-2012 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MXD (Post 49792457)
You're not getting the 3rd overall, nor a high 1st rounder for Kane (at this moment).

1. I'm not the one trying to acquire him.

2. I'm sorry, but a few booze pics don't completely undercut a player's value. See Richards, Mike; Carter, Jeff.

I don't think he's a good fit in Montreal. I assume he stays in Chicago, or that Buffalo decides to overpay for marketing reasons.

Regardless, there's not enough value in that deal for Chicago.

DontToewzMeBro 05-16-2012 08:01 PM

I garuntee Montreal would gladly give their 3rd overall for Kane

rt 05-16-2012 08:01 PM

Hawks getting ripped off big time.

Drydenwasthebest 05-16-2012 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeh82 (Post 49792117)
An (aging) 2C and a good second-pairing defenseman for a 23 year-old, PPG RW? Seems a bit light.

I don't think it is a deal either side does, but it would have to be the 3rd OA + ...

Aging? He is 29 or 30. He is signed to a very good value contract, and he would be killer on your PK as well as centering Hossa and whomever else you put with him. The 3rd overall is not in play since Kane is small, not a center, and my have other issues we must be wary about.

You also forgot about a potential top 4 PMD and the 32nd overall pick.

However, if you do not like the offer we each keep our assets and move on.

Next opinion, please!

Jack de la Hoya 05-16-2012 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest (Post 49792837)
Aging? He is 29 or 30. He is signed to a very good value contract, and he would be killer on your PK as well as centering Hossa and whomever else you put with him. The 3rd overall is not in play since Kane is small, not a center, and my have other issues we must be wary about.

You also forgot about a potential top 4 PMD and the 3nd overall pick.

However, if you do not like the offer we each keep our assets and move on.

Next opinion, please!

What?

I called Gorges a "good second pairing defenseman," which I think is a fair characterization. Plekanec is a decent 2C, but the combination isn't enough for Chicago to move Kane--they don't have the scoring depth to do it.

Mostly, though, you might want to re-read your OP. You didn't offer the 3rd overall pick.

Drydenwasthebest 05-16-2012 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeh82 (Post 49792553)
1. I'm not the one trying to acquire him.

2. I'm sorry, but a few booze pics don't completely undercut a player's value. See Richards, Mike; Carter, Jeff.

I don't think he's a good fit in Montreal. I assume he stays in Chicago, or that Buffalo decides to overpay for marketing reasons.

Regardless, there's no value in that deal for Chicago.

I hate comments like that last one. I have been involved in a lot of threads where Hawks fans have made very attractive offers for Plekanec (Morin, McNeil, Jimmy Hayes and a pick, as one example) because he would be their ideal second line center. You guys also need a top defensive d-man, which Gorges is. How is there no value there? Say not enough, maybe, but none at all? That is a bit ignorant, no?

Jack de la Hoya 05-16-2012 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest (Post 49793379)
I hate comments like that last one. I have been involved in a lot of threads where Hawks fans have made very attractive offers for Plekanec (Morin, McNeil, Jimmy Hayes and a pick, as one example) because he would be their ideal second line center. You guys also need a top defensive d-man, which Gorges is. How is there no value there? Say not enough, maybe, but none at all? That is a bit ignorant, no?

Didn't meant to offend--I'll tweak my post.

First, I'm not a Blackhawks fan. Perhaps they will feel differently about the proposal.

Second, value is determined by the assets in the deal. Plekanec could, indeed, be an ideal 2C for Chicago, allowing them to shift Kane / Sharp to their preferred positions. But there is no (good) value to the Blackhawks in swapping Kane for a package around Plekanec and Gorges.

As you point out, there might be a match to make between the two teams around Plekanec, but I don't think you can do it around Kane (and Gorges).

Drydenwasthebest 05-16-2012 08:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeh82 (Post 49793133)
What?

I called Gorges a "good second pairing defenseman," which I think is a fair characterization. Plekanec is a decent 2C, but the combination isn't enough for Chicago to move Kane--they don't have the scoring depth to do it.

Mostly, though, you might want to re-read your OP. You didn't offer the 3rd overall pick.

I meant 32nd overall pick. You are right, I didn't, and wouldn't offer the 3rd overall for Kane.

You actually said there was nothing of value in the deal, that is what annoyed me. I have no problem with thinking the value is off and tweaking it, but you clearly stated there was nothing of value in the trade and that was completely wrong.

I would also point out that Plekanec is an elite 2nd line center and a decent 1st line center. He is great defensively and is a leading reason why our PK was top 3 this year.

Blind Gardien 05-16-2012 08:43 PM

I wouldn't be interested in that from the Habs' POV. For starters, I wouldn't be interested in Kane. Talented, but too much trouble for the Habs atm. Plekanec and Gorges are huge pieces of the Habs' team. The offensive upgrade of Kane over Plekanec would not be close to enough to offset the defensive hit the team would take in losing Plekanec and Gorges. I don't really care much about the picks/kids around it, the basic premise is not going to help the Habs win games.

Bourne Endeavor 05-16-2012 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MXD (Post 49792457)
You're not getting the 3rd overall, nor a high 1st rounder for Kane (at this moment).

You do realize we're hoping Galchenyuk or Grigorenko become has good as Kane already is, yes? We'd do that trade in a nanosecond.

kthsn 05-16-2012 08:47 PM

Maybe something around Price/Kane will have the Blackhawks listening, this not so much.

Sevanston 05-16-2012 08:54 PM

I would like those players on the Hawks, but this package is not enough for Kane.

RyanCallahan24* 05-16-2012 08:59 PM

Here we go again. What is this? the 3rd thread recently with Plekanec to Ducks?

UniverStalinGraduate* 05-16-2012 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 (Post 49797243)
Here we go again. What is this? the 3rd thread recently with Plekanec to Ducks?

Pardon?

This is Plekanec to the Hawks.

Sorry for creating a thread involving Plekanec to the Ducks.

NExt time i'll PM you to ask your permission.:shakehead

RyanCallahan24* 05-16-2012 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeh82 (Post 49793623)
Didn't meant to offend--I'll tweak my post.

First, I'm not a Blackhawks fan. Perhaps they will feel differently about the proposal.

Second, value is determined by the assets in the deal. Plekanec could, indeed, be an ideal 2C for Chicago, allowing them to shift Kane / Sharp to their preferred positions. But there is no (good) value to the Blackhawks in swapping Kane for a package around Plekanec and Gorges.

As you point out, there might be a match to make between the two teams around Plekanec, but I don't think you can do it around Kane (and Gorges).

Say what?

top 6 forwards:

C: Toews, Plekanec

W: Hossa, Sharp, Stalberg + Saad maybe? or a UFA or whatever.

+ a high 2nd rounder (32th, basically a late 1st) + Gorges a really dependable D who would help Blackhawks alot.


The trade would make the team better overall IMO.

Drydenwasthebest 05-16-2012 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor (Post 49796403)
You do realize we're hoping Galchenyuk or Grigorenko become has good as Kane already is, yes? We'd do that trade in a nanosecond.

Actually, you are wrong. We want Galchenyuk or Grigorenko to be goal scorers in the 30+ range with size and physicality to provide space for our other players. We are not looking at them as playmaking centers, we are hoping they become goal scoring centers who can crash the net, create space, play physical, hit hard, etc...

So, yes, Kane is very good. No, we do not send the 3rd overall that we need to get a big center for another small skilled winger who only scored 66 points this season on a vastly more offensive oriented team with better offensive stars than Montreal has.

I am willing to send Plekanec ++ for Kane because of how good Kane can be, but we need to get that big center far more than we need Kane. Sorry, the only way the 3rd overall is traded is for one of the big centers who are already in the NHL that we would like to get (dreaming about Eric Staal...sigh...never going to happen...).

Habsterix* 05-16-2012 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest (Post 49791983)
As the title states, how do fans feel about this one?

Plekanec, Gorges, Weber, 2012 2nd

For

Kane and Jimmy Hayes

Hawks get great 2nd line center, top defensive d-man, young developing d-man, 2012 2nd rounder.

Habs get great young winger with skill, and a young developing winger with size.

Comments?

I would not touch Patrick Kane with a ten foot pole, regardless of the asking price.

mytor4* 05-16-2012 09:34 PM

Pass on this. Kane just isn't the fit we are looking for.

RyanCallahan24* 05-16-2012 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate (Post 49797501)
Pardon?

This is Plekanec to the Hawks.

Sorry for creating a thread involving Plekanec to the Ducks.

NExt time i'll PM you to ask your permission.:shakehead

:laugh: my bad. There is a Plekanec to Ducks just under this thread. Pressed on the wrong one. Cut me some slack it's 4.47 am over here ;).:naughty:

UniverStalinGraduate* 05-16-2012 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyanCallahan24 (Post 49800591)
:laugh: my bad. There is a Plekanec to Ducks just under this thread. Pressed on the wrong one. Cut me some slack it's 4.47 am over here ;).:naughty:

Lol, I posted that Ducks one. Guess I should check the threads more often. There has been a few of them lately :P

Consider slack cut!

Martini* 05-16-2012 10:04 PM

While I believe Kane will be traded, and his price isnt as high as it once was, I honestly think the OP's offer is a little low.


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