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Burner99 05-21-2012 10:59 AM

Was the UDSSR the most dominating hockey power the world ever witnessed
 
To start this thread, I have to say that I'm really frustrated at the moment. Some Hockey Experts from Austria try to convince me that the Soviet Union was dominating the hockey world till it broke down. I mentioned that Canada Cups, in which Canada could win several time over the Soviet Union , but they only say that nobody is interested in these tournament, they actually call it a joke of a tournament and always refers to the World Championship and the Olympics as proof of the fact, that the Soviet Union were dominating and Canada not a real hockey power. They also claim that the Soviet Union dominated that NHL Players.

After a few responses I'm going crazy. I just don't know what to respond to them. To be clear I don't believe that the Soviet Union dominated Hockey. The simple reason they dominated the Olympics and World Championship was that the best Players from Canada were not allowed to play.

I also don't want to offend Fans of the old Soviet Union team by saying they were a bad team, because they were one of the best team.

I'm searching from opinions from real hockey fans, especially from Russia. Do you think that your team was better or were the Canadiens a serious threat for your team.

Depending on the expressed opinions I will feel ashamed for my ignorance or post a link to this thread in this forum as my last response to this people.

I also hope that I don't offend anybody with this thread as the purpose is very selfish, but maybe I will learn some more things about the history of hockey.

Sokil 05-21-2012 11:25 AM

What is this UDSSR you speak of?

ThatGuy22 05-21-2012 11:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sokil (Post 49955991)
What is this UDSSR you speak of?

I believe it is the abreviation used in German. Quick google search shows that in German what we called the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is Union Der Sozialistischen Sowjetrepubliken. They speak German in Austria, so the abreviation may be UDSSR.

Burner99 05-21-2012 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThatGuy22 (Post 49956257)
I believe it is the abreviation used in German. Quick google search shows that in German what we called the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics is Union Der Sozialistischen Sowjetrepubliken. They speak German in Austria, so the abreviation may be UDSSR.

Yes, you are right, sorry for this mistake, I thought the short term in English and German were identical, but it is not.

MadArcand 05-21-2012 11:39 AM

Union of Democratic Soviet Socialist Republics? :sarcasm:

BruinsBtn 05-21-2012 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burner99 (Post 49955175)
To start this thread, I have to say that I'm really frustrated at the moment. Some Hockey Experts from Austria try to convince me that the Soviet Union was dominating the hockey world till it broke down. I mentioned that Canada Cups, in which Canada could win several time over the Soviet Union , but they only say that nobody is interested in these tournament, they actually call it a joke of a tournament and always refers to the World Championship and the Olympics as proof of the fact, that the Soviet Union were dominating and Canada not a real hockey power. They also claim that the Soviet Union dominated that NHL Players.

After a few responses I'm going crazy. I just don't know what to respond to them. To be clear I don't believe that the Soviet Union dominated Hockey. The simple reason they dominated the Olympics and World Championship was that the best Players from Canada were not allowed to play.

I also don't want to offend Fans of the old Soviet Union team by saying they were a bad team, because they were one of the best team.

I'm searching from opinions from real hockey fans, especially from Russia. Do you think that your team was better or were the Canadiens a serious threat for your team.

Depending on the expressed opinions I will feel ashamed for my ignorance or post a link to this thread in this forum as my last response to this people.

I also hope that I don't offend anybody with this thread as the purpose is very selfish, but maybe I will learn some more things about the history of hockey.

That's like a cricket expert from Canada... completely worthless.

Fulcrum 05-21-2012 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruinsBtn (Post 49956629)
That's like a cricket expert from Canada... completely worthless.

lol probably true. What's Austria's IIHF ranking anyway?

Fulcrum 05-21-2012 11:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burner99 (Post 49955175)
To start this thread, I have to say that I'm really frustrated at the moment. Some Hockey Experts from Austria try to convince me that the Soviet Union was dominating the hockey world till it broke down. I mentioned that Canada Cups, in which Canada could win several time over the Soviet Union , but they only say that nobody is interested in these tournament, they actually call it a joke of a tournament and always refers to the World Championship and the Olympics as proof of the fact, that the Soviet Union were dominating and Canada not a real hockey power. They also claim that the Soviet Union dominated that NHL Players.

After a few responses I'm going crazy. I just don't know what to respond to them. To be clear I don't believe that the Soviet Union dominated Hockey. The simple reason they dominated the Olympics and World Championship was that the best Players from Canada were not allowed to play.

I also don't want to offend Fans of the old Soviet Union team by saying they were a bad team, because they were one of the best team.

I'm searching from opinions from real hockey fans, especially from Russia. Do you think that your team was better or were the Canadiens a serious threat for your team.

Depending on the expressed opinions I will feel ashamed for my ignorance or post a link to this thread in this forum as my last response to this people.

I also hope that I don't offend anybody with this thread as the purpose is very selfish, but maybe I will learn some more things about the history of hockey.

So let me get this straight, you're asking Russian fans if we thought USSR was the best in the world? You're asking this to clear up an argument?

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1swakp7Xi1r1bv2l.png

Best of luck

Uncle Rotter 05-21-2012 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BruinsBtn (Post 49956629)
That's like a cricket expert from Canada... completely worthless.

Considering immigration, there are probably lots of cricket experts in Canada

Fulcrum 05-21-2012 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Rotter (Post 49957069)
Considering immigration, there are probably lots of cricket experts in Canada

what if we consider immigration in Austria and their hockey experts :)?

tarheelhockey 05-21-2012 11:58 AM

I suggest posting this thread in the History board for more useful responses.

Gemini 05-21-2012 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burner99 (Post 49955175)
The simple reason they dominated the Olympics and World Championship was that the best Players from Canada were not allowed to play.

What other argument you need? They "dominated" because they cheated (and by "they" I mean the USSR, not the hockey team as they didn't get to call the shots).

Preisst 05-21-2012 01:35 PM

The USSR blatantly cheated and the best players in the world were Canadians. For any supposed "expert" to suggest the Canada Cups were a joke should tell you all you need to know when dealing with these "experts". Canada Cups were best on best and not a best versus players not good enough to play in the NHL.

Any Russian who is objective about the facts will agree that Canadians were/are the best hockey players in any era.

OttawaRoughRiderFan 05-21-2012 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Preisst (Post 49960543)
The USSR blatantly cheated and the best players in the world were Canadians. For any supposed "expert" to suggest the Canada Cups were a joke should tell you all you need to know when dealing with these "experts". Canada Cups were best on best and not a best versus players not good enough to play in the NHL.

Any Russian who is objective about the facts will agree that Canadians were/are the best hockey players in any era.

I am objective and agree. ;)

WarriorofTime 05-21-2012 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Preisst (Post 49960543)
The USSR blatantly cheated and the best players in the world were Canadians. For any supposed "expert" to suggest the Canada Cups were a joke should tell you all you need to know when dealing with these "experts". Canada Cups were best on best and not a best versus players not good enough to play in the NHL.

Any Russian who is objective about the facts will agree that Canadians were/are the best hockey players in any era.

Canada Cups were played on Canadian soil in a Canadian-centric tournament such as using NHL rules rather than international rules. The rest of the world didn't see them as big a deal as Canada. That being said, Canada won it in 3 times, the Soviet Union won it once. Canada won it clearly in '76, Russians won it clearly in '81. '84 and '87 were extremely close. The games probably could have gone the other way if they were played in Moscow. You can't really count '91 as the USSR did not have its A team.

That was all just the 80's though at a time when Canada had what Gretzky and Lemieux who are considered arguably the two best offensive players ever. The '72 Summit Series was extremely even with Canada coming ahead by the slimmest of margins 4-3-1. I would say the countries were pretty even with Canada having a slight edge. To say the USSR dominated international hockey is accurate though considering they won the Olympics and World Championships every yea.r

Preisst 05-21-2012 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarriorofTime (Post 49963199)
Canada Cups were played on Canadian soil in a Canadian-centric tournament such as using NHL rules rather than international rules. The rest of the world didn't see them as big a deal as Canada. That being said, Canada won it in 3 times, the Soviet Union won it once. Canada won it clearly in '76, Russians won it clearly in '81. '84 and '87 were extremely close. The games probably could have gone the other way if they were played in Moscow. You can't really count '91 as the USSR did not have its A team.
That was all just the 80's though at a time when Canada had what Gretzky and Lemieux who are considered arguably the two best offensive players ever. The '72 Summit Series was extremely even with Canada coming ahead by the slimmest of margins 4-3-1. I would say the countries were pretty even with Canada having a slight edge. To say the USSR dominated international hockey is accurate though considering they won the Olympics and World Championships every yea.r

So why do we not count 91 when the USSR supposedly did not have it's A team but we can count all the Olympics and WCs when Canada most definitely did not have it's A or B or C or D team? Double standard?

OttawaRoughRiderFan 05-21-2012 02:53 PM

I think we need to keep it current...

4 Best on Best tournaments since 2000. Canada won 3.

:)

canuck2010 05-21-2012 02:55 PM

The USSR dominated the World Championships and the Olympics when they had no other competition.

Do you really think they would have won all of those championships from the mid 50's on?

I give Russia credit for being a great hockey nation and producing great players but lets deal with reality.

WarriorofTime 05-21-2012 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Preisst (Post 49963421)
So why do we not count 91 when the USSR supposedly did not have it's A team but we can count all the Olympics and WCs when Canada most definitely did not have it's A or B or C or D team? Double standard?

Not really. If you look at the rest of my post you'll see that's not the angle I was going for. I was just using the Olympics and WCs to point out the USSR as dominating international ice hockey which is where the people mentioned in the OP were coming from.

OttawaRoughRiderFan 05-21-2012 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevyD (Post 49963579)
I think we need to keep it current...

4 Best on Best tournaments since 2000. Canada won 3.

:)

Good point Kevin. :)

I just looked it up. Best on best, since 2000, Russia has one Bronze. Shocking.

Russia peaked too early before 2010. Two WC's and then came out flat in Vancouver so before people read too much into this year's WC...

Theokritos 05-21-2012 03:06 PM

The correct sentence would read: "The USSR was the most dominating hockey power the IIHF world ever witnessed."

As for the experts the OP is referring to: I assume you're talking about self-appointed "experts", not people who are really interested in the history of the game. "Experts" of the former kind are not very hard to find on HFBoards as well, regardless whether they're from Austria, Australia, Canada or Russia.

Zuluss 05-21-2012 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarriorofTime (Post 49963199)
Canada Cups were played on Canadian soil in a Canadian-centric tournament such as using NHL rules rather than international rules. The rest of the world didn't see them as big a deal as Canada. That being said, Canada won it in 3 times, the Soviet Union won it once. Canada won it clearly in '76, Russians won it clearly in '81. '84 and '87 were extremely close. The games probably could have gone the other way if they were played in Moscow. You can't really count '91 as the USSR did not have its A team.

That was all just the 80's though at a time when Canada had what Gretzky and Lemieux who are considered arguably the two best offensive players ever. The '72 Summit Series was extremely even with Canada coming ahead by the slimmest of margins 4-3-1. I would say the countries were pretty even with Canada having a slight edge. To say the USSR dominated international hockey is accurate though considering they won the Olympics and World Championships every yea.r

You shouldn't really count Canada Cup '76 too, because the Soviets did not bring their best team, they probably did not see the format as a fair one too.

Anyway, I think you are right that Soviets did dominate international hockey, it's just a fact.

Whether they had the best hockey team in the world at that time is up to debate. I would say they were tied with Canada for that title, and it's a shame we did not see enough series like the Summit Series with these teams.

WarriorofTime 05-21-2012 03:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevyD (Post 49964011)
Good point Kevin. :)

I just looked it up. Best on best, since 2000, Russia has one Bronze. Shocking.

Russia peaked too early before 2010. Two WC's and then came out flat in Vancouver so before people read too much into this year's WC...

Russia was in the toughest group, even though they managed to win it they were set up for a really bad quarterfinal matchup against a (home) Canadian team that severely underachieved in Group Play. I guess Russia underachieved as a whole but not really by that much. Sweden going out in the QF to Slovakia was much more disappointing.

Preisst 05-21-2012 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarriorofTime (Post 49963971)
Not really. If you look at the rest of my post you'll see that's not the angle I was going for. I was just using the Olympics and WCs to point out the USSR as dominating international ice hockey which is where the people mentioned in the OP were coming from.

But it's quite obvious the ppull mentioned in the OP [the Austrian 'experts'] have an extremely biased anti-Canadian agenda.

They dominated all those years in the Olympics and WCs cuz they blatantly cheated AND they did not have to face the best Canadian players or even the 5th best team Canada could have put on the ice.

So let them flaunt their plastic ill gotten gains all they want, it means nothing.

Preisst 05-21-2012 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarriorofTime (Post 49964207)
Russia was in the toughest group, even though they managed to win it they were set up for a really bad quarterfinal matchup against a (home) Canadian team that severely underachieved in Group Play. I guess Russia underachieved as a whole but not really by that much. Sweden going out in the QF to Slovakia was much more disappointing.

Oh those poor Russians having to play in the toughest group, so sad for them. The hockey world just isn't fair to them after they cheated for decades. :amazed:


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