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-   -   What is more impressive, Canada's dominance in hockey or Brazil's in soccer? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1194797)

Mr Kanadensisk 05-23-2012 04:00 AM

What is more impressive, Canada's dominance in hockey or Brazil's in soccer?
 
I thought this might lead to some intersting discussions.

I would say that Canada is more dominant in hockey than Brazil is in soccer since Canada wins a higher percentage of the best on best tournaments and also has a higher percentage of the world's elite players. However there are way more countries which compete at a high level in soccer, so for Brazil to do as well as they have is pretty unbelievable.

Fork 05-23-2012 04:20 AM

i dont think either country really dominates in their respective sports. when i think about dominating, i think of south korea at archery, china at table tennis, and jamaica in sprints

Mr Kanadensisk 05-23-2012 04:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fork (Post 50034853)
i dont think either country really dominates in their respective sports. when i think about dominating, i think of south korea at archery, china at table tennis, and jamaica in sprints

I think you could say that CAN and BZL are the most dominant countries in the respective sports. Canada has won 3 of the last 4 best on best tournaments, so I think anyone would have to admit that is considered dominant.

Ville82 05-23-2012 04:34 AM

Neither dominates.

Fork 05-23-2012 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk (Post 50034931)
I think you could say that CAN and BZL are the most dominant countries in the respective sports. Canada has won 3 of the last 4 best on best tournaments, so I think anyone would have to admit that is considered dominant.

where are you getting this from? the last 4 best on best tournaments are the 2012 world championships, 2011 world championships, 2010 world championships, and 2010 olympics, so canada has only won 1 out of 4

unless you are only counting olympics, but still canada has only won 2 out of 4 most recent tournaments, or 2 out of 15 dating back to the 50s....

Roughneck 05-23-2012 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fork (Post 50034853)
i dont think either country really dominates in their respective sports. when i think about dominating, i think of south korea at archery, china at table tennis, and jamaica in sprints

I should point out that even Canada has more 100m gold medals in the Olympics than Jamaica does. Usain Bolt is a dominant athlete, but the U.S. is the dominant sprint nation.

Theokritos 05-23-2012 04:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk (Post 50034931)
I think you could say that CAN and BZL are the most dominant countries in the respective sports. Canada has won 3 of the last 4 best on best tournaments, so I think anyone would have to admit that is considered dominant.

Should Canada win the 2014 Olympics, we can talk. Until then, they've won 1 best-on-best tournament on large ice from 1996-2010. Not to mention they haven't won a single World Championship in 5 years.

That said, while I wouldn't call Canada's international performance dominant, I still agree that Canada is the most dominant country relative to the other countries, much more dominant than Brazil in Football. But as you said: competition in Football is beyond the roof. Germany, 82 Mio people mad for Football. France, 65.5 Mio people mad for Football. Italy, 60.6 Mio people mad for Football. England, 50.4 Mio people mad for Football. Spain, 47 Mio people mad for Football. Argentina, 40.5 Mio people mad for Football. And so on. Difficult to compare Canada/Hockey and Brazil/Football.

Theokritos 05-23-2012 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fork (Post 50035007)
where are you getting this from? the last 4 best on best tournaments are the 2012 world championships, 2011 world championships, 2010 world championships, and 2010 olympics, so canada has only won 1 out of 4

unless you are only counting olympics, but still canada has only won 2 out of 4 most recent tournaments, or 2 out of 15 dating back to the 50s....

Best on best tournaments are Olympics and World Cups, not World Championships because they are played at the same time as the Stanley Cup Playoffs. The last 4 best on best tournaments were the 2002 Olympics, the 2004 World Cup, the 2006 Olympics and the 2010 Olympics.

Mr Kanadensisk 05-23-2012 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fork (Post 50035007)
where are you getting this from? the last 4 best on best tournaments are the 2012 world championships, 2011 world championships, 2010 world championships, and 2010 olympics, so canada has only won 1 out of 4

unless you are only counting olympics, but still canada has only won 2 out of 4 most recent tournaments, or 2 out of 15 dating back to the 50s....

nobody seriously defines the WC as best on best. The last four b on b were the '02, '06, '10 OG and '04 WCup.

Memphis The Pie 05-23-2012 04:43 AM

According to IIHF, there are 572 411 registered hockey players in Canada and 977 573 registered hockey players in the rest of the world COMBINED(half of them in the US).

In comparison, according to FIFA there are about 13 million people playing soccer in Brazil... and 265 million in the world.

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/bi...edplayers.html
http://www.iihf.com/iihf-home/the-ii...f-players.html

With all the culture/history, resources and infrastructure, Canada should easily dominate international hockey.

Fork 05-23-2012 04:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fire Feaster (Post 50035021)
I should point out that even Canada has more 100m gold medals in the Olympics than Jamaica does. Usain Bolt is a dominant athlete, but the U.S. is the dominant sprint nation.

that is a good point, but i still consider jamaica the most dominant country in short distance races because they are far and beyond the best at the moment. its impressive a small nation can produce athletes like bolt, asafa powell, yohan blake, veronica campbell brown, etc

Mr Kanadensisk 05-23-2012 04:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theokritos (Post 50035051)
Should Canada win the 2014 Olympics, we can talk. Until then, they've won 1 best-on-best tournament on large ice from 1996-2010.

As you know there have only been three on the big ice (if you exclude the '72 SS), so pretty small sample size, but you could also say that no one has won more big ice b on b than Canada.

Theokritos 05-23-2012 04:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk (Post 50035125)
As you know there have only been three on the big ice (if you exclude the '72 SS), so pretty small sample size, but you could also say that no one has won more big ice b on b than Canada.

1 out of 3 isn't domination, period. No one has won more than Canada, but if Canada is supposed to "dominate", they have to win more than others.

Everlasting 05-23-2012 04:54 AM

Canada dominate hockey? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

6 golds in whc in the last 70 years.
2 golds in olympics in that last 70 years.
15 golds at U20 since 77.

As you can see, Canada is far away from a dominant hockey nation. They are barley a top 3 nation. The only thing Canada could say they are best in (Looking through out the history) in hockey is U20 where they have in the last 12 years taking 5 golds which is really impressive. However, they havent won a U20 gold since 2009. So they dont even dominate at U20.But yeah, they are one of the best u20 countries, no doubt. But thats it.

Also, Brazil doesnt dominate football anymore :/

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fork (Post 50034853)
i dont think either country really dominates in their respective sports. when i think about dominating, i think of south korea at archery, china at table tennis, and jamaica in sprints

Jan-Ove Waldner. Your arguemnt is invalid.

Fork 05-23-2012 04:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk (Post 50035073)
nobody seriously defines the WC as best on best. The last four b on b were the '02, '06, '10 OG and '04 WCup.

i see a lot of people on hfboards discounting the world championships. i wonder if this is only because their country lost. if canada had won the tournament, i dont think people would be saying the same things about the world championship.

people claim that the WC doesnt count because not all of the best players go. this may be due to a number of factors, including the stanley cup playoffs, personal preference, injuries, etc. However, people seem to forget that canada is NOT the only country affected by this. There are players from the USA, Sweden, and every country that do not go to the WC. By your logic, if Canada is so dominant in the sport of hockey, shouldn't Canada overcome this problem by still icing a highly competitive team in the WC due to depth and the large amount of available players. This means that Canada should be less affected by players not wanting to play, so canada should actually be more dominant in the world championships than in "best-on-best" tournaments such as the olympics, relatively speaking. however, this is not the case as Canada hasn't won the WC is how ever many years

Hanji 05-23-2012 04:55 AM

Neither Brazil or Canada is dominant.
Nonetheless Canada's success isn't exactly impressive given their huge resource and player pool advantage. Brazil's success I do consider impressive.

goodoldhockeygame 05-23-2012 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fruktbomb (Post 50035085)
According to IIHF, there are 572 411 registered hockey players in Canada and 977 573 registered hockey players in the rest of the world COMBINED(half of them in the US).

In comparison, according to FIFA there are about 13 million people playing soccer in Brazil... and 265 million in the world.

http://www.fifa.com/worldfootball/bi...edplayers.html
http://www.iihf.com/iihf-home/the-ii...f-players.html

With all the culture/history, resources and infrastructure, Canada should easily dominate international hockey.

totally righT!

kp61c 05-23-2012 05:01 AM

you clearly dont watch much football. brazil dominating spain? :shakehead
btw the level of competition in hockey is MUCH weaker. so chances of one team dominating the others are better.
to answer the question, yep. canada more dominant in hockey than brazil in football

jekoh 05-23-2012 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theokritos (Post 50035069)
Best on best tournaments are Olympics and World Cups, not World Championships because they are played at the same time as the Stanley Cup Playoffs. The last 4 best on best tournaments were the 2002 Olympics, the 2004 World Cup, the 2006 Olympics and the 2010 Olympics.

The 2005 world championships were not played during the Stanley cup playoffs so they should count as best-on-best.

BusQuets 05-23-2012 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin929 (Post 50035187)
Canada dominate hockey? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

6 golds in whc in the last 70 years.
2 golds in olympics in that last 70 years.
15 golds at U20 since 77.

As you can see, Canada is far away from a dominant hockey nation. They are barley a top 3 nation. The only thing Canada could say they are best in (Looking through out the history) in hockey is U20 where they have in the last 12 years taking 5 golds which is really impressive. However, they havent won a U20 gold since 2009. So they dont even dominate at U20.But yeah, they are one of the best u20 countries, no doubt. But thats it.

Also, Brazil doesnt dominate football anymore :/


Jan-Ove Waldner. Your arguemnt is invalid.









Pretty much this.


Also seeying how Canada have the half of the registered hockey players in world their achievements are even more less great.

Mr Kanadensisk 05-23-2012 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin929 (Post 50035187)
Canada dominate hockey? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

6 golds in whc in the last 70 years.
2 golds in olympics in that last 70 years.
15 golds at U20 since 77.

As you can see, Canada is far away from a dominant hockey nation. They are barley a top 3 nation. The only thing Canada could say they are best in (Looking through out the history) in hockey is U20 where they have in the last 12 years taking 5 golds which is really impressive. However, they havent won a U20 gold since 2009. So they dont even dominate at U20.But yeah, they are one of the best u20 countries, no doubt. But thats it.

Also, Brazil doesnt dominate football anymore :/

please you left out womens hockey, sledge hockey, road hockey, table hockey and pocket hockey.

Seriously though, pre '98 Olympics and WC???

Mr Kanadensisk 05-23-2012 05:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jekoh (Post 50035267)
The 2005 world championships were not played during the Stanley cup playoffs so they should count as best-on-best.

missed oportunity, too few elite players attended

Mr Kanadensisk 05-23-2012 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fork (Post 50035197)
i see a lot of people on hfboards discounting the world championships. i wonder if this is only because their country lost. if canada had won the tournament, i dont think people would be saying the same things about the world championship.

When Canada wins people still say exactly the same thing.

ult 05-23-2012 05:12 AM

lol. canada domintaes just like Brazil i.e not dominating at all. :laugh:

Fork 05-23-2012 05:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr Kanadensisk (Post 50035345)
When Canada wins people still say exactly the same thing.

you know this because you bookmarked the 2007/2004/2003 WC finals GDT?


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