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-   -   WC: WC a bang to the cocky NHL (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1194935)

fredrikstad 05-23-2012 11:03 AM

WC a bang to the cocky NHL
 
This is a google translate,and written before the semifinals in the 2012 WC
http://translate.google.no/translate...toddiga-nhl%2F

But I think the writer has many good points.
My own thoughts is that i NA they are playing way to many games,and train way to litle.
16 to 20 years old, should have at least three practices for every game the play. And that should go for adults too.

WaltWhitman 05-23-2012 11:16 AM

That's why college hockey is better than the CHL for development. :sarcasm:

More practice and weight training. Less injuries and burnout from so many games.

Yakushev72 05-23-2012 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fredrikstad (Post 50042585)
This is a google translate,and written before the semifinals in the 2012 WC
http://translate.google.no/translate...toddiga-nhl%2F

But I think the writer has many good points.
My own thoughts is that i NA they are playing way to many games,and train way to litle.
16 to 20 years old, should have at least three practices for every game the play. And that should go for adults too.

I agree. During the regular season, practices in the NHL are properly described as "skatearounds," really aimed more at loosening up than at improving skills and executing plays and strategies. If they still insist on playing 82 games, lengthen the schedule to accomodate more intense practices.

s7ark 05-23-2012 11:49 AM

Europeans are welcome to look down their nose at how we do thing in North America all they like. But the fact is that the NHL has the best players in the world, is much more popular than any other hockey league, and far, far more profitable. So we'll probably just keep doing things how we see fit and pretty much ignore all the nay-saying Europeans with an axe to grind about losing their top players to the NHL.

Europeans can care as much as they like about the WHC. We're more than happy with the NHL and the SCF. We can settle which country is tops at the Olympics.

BalticWarrior 05-23-2012 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7ark (Post 50044321)
Europeans are welcome to look down their nose at how we do thing in North America all they like. But the fact is that the NHL has the best players in the world, is much more popular than any other hockey league, and far, far more profitable. So we'll probably just keep doing things how we see fit and pretty much ignore all the nay-saying Europeans with an axe to grind about losing their top players to the NHL.

Europeans can care as much as they like about the WHC. We're more than happy with the NHL and the SCF. We can settle which country is tops at the Olympics.

I get the feeling you think you guys have already won the Olympics.

s7ark 05-23-2012 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helo (Post 50044415)
I get the feeling you think you guys have already won the Olympics.

God no. Russia, USA, Sweden, maybe even Finland could take the Olympic gold. That is why I said we'd see who was best there. We're in the mix, maybe even the favourite because we won it last time, but it is by no means a certainty that Canada wins in Sochi.

BTW, since this forum will likely be shut down shortly and I rarely see any of you on HFOil, kudos to you Latvian hockey fans. You guys have a passion far greater than warranted given how your team has done internationally. I really hope you guys keep improving and become a top hockey nation. You fans definitely deserve it. Latvian hockey fans are very well liked in Canada.

Alpine 05-23-2012 12:00 PM

NHL or CHL didn't even notice the WC.
Man the MEM is hard to call

hfboardsuser 05-23-2012 12:03 PM

----

Hennessy 05-23-2012 01:18 PM

Had I known I'd be visiting that tabloid, I'd have saved myself a click. I feel dirty now.

FolignoQuantumLeap 05-23-2012 03:09 PM

From what I understand, the SEL and KHL have both been taking pages out of Canada's book in recent years with the development of their junior systems. I'm not saying the author doesn't know what he's talking about but well he doesn't know what he's talking about.

Uncle Rotter 05-23-2012 11:36 PM

Idiotic article.
How far does Russia get without their NHL players?
Would Slovakia even make the QF?
Finland's 3 NHL forwards scored nearly 50% of their team's goals.
16 of the top 25 scorers were from the NHL.
As for Thoresen:
4 games against Russia, Sweden, Czechs: 1g 3a
4 games against Italy, Germany, Latvia, Denmark: 6g 8a

Holden Caulfield 05-23-2012 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by s7ark (Post 50044789)
BTW, since this forum will likely be shut down shortly and I rarely see any of you on HFOil, kudos to you Latvian hockey fans. You guys have a passion far greater than warranted given how your team has done internationally. I really hope you guys keep improving and become a top hockey nation. You fans definitely deserve it. Latvian hockey fans are very well liked in Canada.

Latvians do amazing and are only getting better BUT the entire country has only 2.2 million people. Canada has 3 CITIES that have a larger population. Latvia does unreal for their population and you have to respect how much passion they have for the game, it is one of my favourite countries for hockey (I will make it out to Riga one day, my next Europe trip I want to hit Eastern Europe), but they simply will not be able to be a real medal threat or anything due to simple population. Not enough people to create enough depth. Even Slovakia and Finland have 5.4 million each (the next smallest of the major countries) double + 1 million. If Latvia had 5 million people, they would EASILY be a top country, IMO.

BalticWarrior 05-24-2012 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield (Post 50082709)
Latvians do amazing and are only getting better BUT the entire country has only 2.2 million people. Canada has 3 CITIES that have a larger population. Latvia does unreal for their population and you have to respect how much passion they have for the game, it is one of my favourite countries for hockey (I will make it out to Riga one day, my next Europe trip I want to hit Eastern Europe), but they simply will not be able to be a real medal threat or anything due to simple population. Not enough people to create enough depth. Even Slovakia and Finland have 5.4 million each (the next smallest of the major countries) double + 1 million. If Latvia had 5 million people, they would EASILY be a top country, IMO.

Just wanted to correct you that Latvia is in northen europe ;) also even if we can`t be medal contender we can become TOP 8 nation someday.

Robin Hood 05-24-2012 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FolignoQuantumLeap (Post 50052993)
From what I understand, the SEL and KHL have both been taking pages out of Canada's book in recent years with the development of their junior systems. I'm not saying the author doesn't know what he's talking about but well he doesn't know what he's talking about.

This is new to me. Very interesting. Where did you get this from?

Nevertheless, I actually think he brings up some good points. Remember that this is written for a Swedish audience in a Swedish context and in Sweden (and Denmark for that matter) there is a tendency to think that anything from NHL is perfect. Well, it's not. It's very very good, best in the World, like he's stating several times, but nothing is perfect. Examplified by the recent World Championships.

Quote:

Europeans are welcome to look down their nose at how we do thing in North America all they like. But the fact is that the NHL has the best players in the world, is much more popular than any other hockey league, and far, far more profitable. So we'll probably just keep doing things how we see fit and pretty much ignore all the nay-saying Europeans with an axe to grind about losing their top players to the NHL.

Europeans can care as much as they like about the WHC. We're more than happy with the NHL and the SCF. We can settle which country is tops at the Olympics.
I think you totally missed the point of the article, but put that aside. Why can't we please just discuss the topic as it is already without falling into the usual Euro/NA crap discussion. The writer didn't insult Canada as a country or anything so there's no reason to melt down. He was adressing a topic that is regularly being discussed in Sweden about ICE HOCKEY. Jesus Christ it took four posts until someone screwed this up and derailed it with some good old racist prejudgement and hemispheric separation.

This is why these boards are no fun any more. Some posters only come here to stir up trouble.

And for your information: Sweden is not Europe. Europe is a continent consisting of many totally different countries with relative geographic proximity. In Northern Europe we have more in common with Canada and Australia than with southern Europe or Russia. You cannot say "Euro" or "Europe" just because som Swede said something about a North American hockey tournament. Just as I can't blame entire North America because som Mexican said something.

Did you consider that at least half of his readers are totally disagreeing with him and still thinks that NHL is the totally awesome and you're also calling them out with your Euro rant?

pouskin74* 05-24-2012 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Rotter (Post 50082417)
Idiotic article.
How far does Russia get without their NHL players?
Would Slovakia even make the QF?
Finland's 3 NHL forwards scored nearly 50% of their team's goals.
16 of the top 25 scorers were from the NHL.
As for Thoresen:
4 games against Russia, Sweden, Czechs: 1g 3a

4 games against Italy, Germany, Latvia, Denmark: 6g 8a

1-Can you remind me how far reached Canada with full NHL roster in last 3 years?:sarcasm:
2-How far reached Slovakia last year with Gaborik,Hossa & Co ??
3-And Finnland got nothing but last year with European players in main roles they got a gold medal.
4-Thoresen?? Filppula from Detroit Red Wings 7 points out of 10 against France and Kazahstan! So what were you saying?:sarcasm:

YARR123 05-24-2012 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Rotter (Post 50082417)
Idiotic article.
How far does Russia get without their NHL players?
Would Slovakia even make the QF?
Finland's 3 NHL forwards scored nearly 50% of their team's goals.
16 of the top 25 scorers were from the NHL.
As for Thoresen:
4 games against Russia, Sweden, Czechs: 1g 3a
4 games against Italy, Germany, Latvia, Denmark: 6g 8a

The point was that some teams with very few NHLers did well (SVK, FIN) while teams full of them did badly (USA, SWE, CAN), and that the NHL isn't perfect. Everything that comes from the NHL isn't pure gold, and that even NHLers may suck in the WC.

As for Thoresen scoring 1+3 against those teams is pretty impressive, knowing that he scored those points playing for Norway and against those teams.

Quote:

And for your information: Sweden is not Europe. Europe is a continent consisting of many totally different countries with relative geographic proximity. In Northern Europe we have more in common with Canada and Australia than with southern Europe or Russia. You cannot say "Euro" or "Europe" just because som Swede said something about a North American hockey tournament. Just as I can't blame entire North America because som Mexican said something.
This. It's so annoying. I'm not European, I'm Finnish. And it's funny that if a Swede says something weird then a Canadian points his finger at the whole continent.

Inub0i 05-24-2012 02:54 AM

The WC have indeed shown that sometimes a team filled with NHLers don't always win.

As long as our team (in this case, the US) qualifies for the Olympics in Sochi, I'm pretty damned happy. With our ragtag group, a QF finish seemed pretty good. Did I want them to medal? Yeah. But crap happens and we gave up a goal 8 secs left in the QF against Finland. Lookin' forward to Sochi, where all of our best players are available.

pouskin74* 05-24-2012 02:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inub0i (Post 50086469)
The WC have indeed shown that sometimes a team filled with NHLers don't always win.

As long as our team (in this case, the US) qualifies for the Olympics in Sochi, I'm pretty damned happy. With our ragtag group, a QF finish seemed pretty good. Did I want them to metal? Yeah. But crap happens and we gave up a goal 8 secs left in the QF against Finland. Lookin' forward to Sochi, where all of our best players are available.

not just sometimes but pretty often

Holden Caulfield 05-24-2012 03:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Helo (Post 50085351)
Just wanted to correct you that Latvia is in northen europe ;) also even if we can`t be medal contender we can become TOP 8 nation someday.

Sorry. I try to stay up to date on the rest of the world but sometimes I slip up with things like this. So Estonia and Lithuania as well would be considered "northern europe"? Just curious, I love learning about other cultures, it is one of my favourite things. I visited 10 different countries last year on my western Europe trip, I am very excited to have a Eastern European one (maybe 2014 so I can go to Belarus despite the things that happen there(no Visa's for people with WC tickets), along with Kiev, Moscow, St. Petersburg, Helsinki, Stockholm and maybe southern Europe like Athens).

As for Latvia becoming a top 8 country, Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland, USA, Czech Republic are powers and will continue to be. Switzerland is an upcoming and coming country and the are improving every single year to become a hockey power. Slovakia has gone through a huge downswing, but they seem to have some potential coming up right now, so it is entirely possible they retain their elite status. In the next 5-10 years it is possible that Latvia establishes itself in the secondary powers with Finland, USA, Czech, Switzerland, Slovakia but they need alot of improvement. Again I am not trying to diminish what that country accomplishes, it is simply unreal what they do with the limited populace, but it is hard to gain too much traction when the nearest competing country has almost 3x the population and some have 10 or even in the case of the USA 100x the population of that country. Those are pretty steep odds. Not impossible but very very tough.

Quote:

Originally Posted by YARR123 (Post 50086387)
The point was that some teams with very few NHLers did well (SVK, FIN) while teams full of them did badly (USA, SWE, CAN), and that the NHL isn't perfect. Everything that comes from the NHL isn't pure gold, and that even NHLers may suck in the WC.

As for Thoresen scoring 1+3 against those teams is pretty impressive, knowing that he scored those points playing for Norway and against those teams.

This. It's so annoying. I'm not European, I'm Finnish. And it's funny that if a Swede says something weird then a Canadian points his finger at the whole continent.

I hope you don't paint us all with that brush. Although there is plenty of ignorant people (as there is anywhere, many people around the world consider Canada = USA) there are plenty of people who understand. I love exploring different cultures personally and there are many Canadians and Americans who understand that the NHL is not the simply the best 700 players in the world. There are many many talented hockey players plying their trade in Europe. I selfishly wish they were over here, but I am glad that some of you over there get to experience some very good talent.

Den 05-24-2012 03:30 AM

This is going to be locked quite soon. Can both sides stop generating threads like this?

BalticWarrior 05-24-2012 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield (Post 50086621)
Sorry. I try to stay up to date on the rest of the world but sometimes I slip up with things like this. So Estonia and Lithuania as well would be considered "northern europe"? Just curious, I love learning about other cultures, it is one of my favourite things. I visited 10 different countries last year on my western Europe trip, I am very excited to have a Eastern European one (maybe 2014 so I can go to Belarus despite the things that happen there(no Visa's for people with WC tickets), along with Kiev, Moscow, St. Petersburg, Helsinki, Stockholm and maybe southern Europe like Athens).

As for Latvia becoming a top 8 country, Canada, Russia, Sweden, Finland, USA, Czech Republic are powers and will continue to be. Switzerland is an upcoming and coming country and the are improving every single year to become a hockey power. Slovakia has gone through a huge downswing, but they seem to have some potential coming up right now, so it is entirely possible they retain their elite status. In the next 5-10 years it is possible that Latvia establishes itself in the secondary powers with Finland, USA, Czech, Switzerland, Slovakia but they need alot of improvement. Again I am not trying to diminish what that country accomplishes, it is simply unreal what they do with the limited populace, but it is hard to gain too much traction when the nearest competing country has almost 3x the population and some have 10 or even in the case of the USA 100x the population of that country. Those are pretty steep odds. Not impossible but very very tough.





Yes both Estonia and Lithuania are also northen countries.

I don`t think the problem is in population,the problem is in registered players across the country and the number of rinks,we were hit hard by the economic crisis so alot of the rinks were closed and lots of young guys just couldn`t afford hockey anymore,thankfully the worst is behind the number of registered players is growing slowly, we have only 4k and something registered players(icluding juniors) across the country if we could get that number to lets say 10k,the improvements would be noticable.

zorz 05-24-2012 03:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Den (Post 50086735)
This is going to be locked quite soon. Can both sides stop generating threads like this?

locking threads with controversial topics isn't the best way to run quality discussion. until somebody starts flaming without arguments, I see no problem.

YARR123 05-24-2012 04:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield (Post 50086621)



I hope you don't paint us all with that brush. Although there is plenty of ignorant people (as there is anywhere, many people around the world consider Canada = USA) there are plenty of people who understand. I love exploring different cultures personally and there are many Canadians and Americans who understand that the NHL is not the simply the best 700 players in the world. There are many many talented hockey players plying their trade in Europe. I selfishly wish they were over here, but I am glad that some of you over there get to experience some very good talent.

I don't actually, I was referring to what s7ark said. I've met a lot of Canadians and most of them were very nice people: Open and friendly and knowledgeable. I don't really let it affect my conception of a country and their people by what people say on an internet forum, I rely more on my personal experiences :)

Yamaguchi* 05-24-2012 02:52 PM

Northern countries? In the EU, Latvia is considered an Eastern European nation.

And the population stats has nothing to do with good performance in international hockey. Otherwise India and China would always meet in the finals.

All you need is 18 strong skaters, a bloody good goalie and a genius coach.

Muffin 05-24-2012 03:02 PM

Didn't read the article, but I'm pretty sure team Russia had NHL players like Ovechkin, Semin, Datsyuk, Malkin and Varlamov.


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