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-   -   Speculation: What kind of sweetened offer for Nash we talking about DW? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1196261)

Squeeven 05-25-2012 03:01 PM

What kind of sweetened offer for Nash we talking about DW?
 
I know some of you really do not want Nash, and some of you really do want Nash. If we could fetch Nash for a good price then I'm all for it. I'm very interested to hear about how DW will sweeten the offer for Nash.


http://*******************/articles/...an-jose-sharks

http://spectorshockey.net/blog/sunda...p-may-13-2012/


Anyone think there's truth to this rumor? What do you think DW will offer, that is my question.

The Nemesis 05-25-2012 03:04 PM

That "sweeten the pot" thing comes from Bruce Garrioch. Garrioch is barely a notch above Eklund on the credibility scale.

Gene Parmesan 05-25-2012 03:04 PM

He will throw in some fresh sea food and avocados.

joe2cheech 05-25-2012 03:05 PM

this seems like a website that is worse than hockeybuzz

SJeasy 05-25-2012 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joe2cheech (Post 50137791)
this seems like a website that is worse than hockeybuzz

Spectors is OK. They collect rumors and identify sources. They aren't originators of rumors. There are guys out there who really do their groundwork like MacKenzie, Dreger, LeBrun, Portzline, Russo and Strickland. Just note the names attached to what they report.

Falco5 05-25-2012 03:30 PM

If by "sweeten the pot" he meant that our draft pick is higher than we hoped then yes. The only other way this is true is if Niemi was not on the table before and is now.

Pinkfloyd 05-25-2012 03:33 PM

If there is a sweetening to the pot, it will be because they're able to move guys like Clowe and/or Murray somewhere else for draft picks that they can offer to Columbus.

In general, I'm not for acquiring Rick Nash if the cost requires Pavelski or Couture. If they want a Clowe package involving the #17 and some other replaceable assets, that's fine. But going over that is unacceptable for a player that is not going to make a dramatic impact on this team's goal differential or team speed.

Dusk Soldier 05-25-2012 03:50 PM

It sounds like we're going to have to give up Niemi...

Pinkfloyd 05-25-2012 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk Soldier (Post 50139261)
It sounds like we're going to have to give up Niemi...

I'd do Clowe, Niemi, and the 1st for Nash.

glasgow26 05-25-2012 03:58 PM

By sweeten the pot he probably means our first rounder. Honestly, if all we have to give up is Clowe, a 1st and a prospect I'd be OK with it (depending on the prospect). I don't want Nash and his contract is godawful, but I do believe he could improve this team if we don't give up any key players. I have faith that DW isn't dumb enough to give them Couture or Vlasic.

Clowe+1st+Niemi for Nash+Mason would be fine by me.

Janney 05-25-2012 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd (Post 50139419)
I'd do Clowe, Niemi, and the 1st for Nash.

As long as it's not this year's pick, it wouldn't be a bad deal at all (perhaps also throw in a goalie prospect and get Mason). Even though this pick is outside the top-15 its still the highest default draft pick San Jose has had in the last six years. Considering the team only has a couple of guys with 2nd line potential in the prospect pool (Wingels and Nieto), the Sharks need to stock up on some future assets.

TheJuxtaposer 05-25-2012 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by param (Post 50139999)
As long as it's not this year's pick, it wouldn't be a bad deal at all (perhaps also throw in a goalie prospect and get Mason). Even though this pick is outside the top-15 its still the highest default draft pick San Jose has had in the last six years. Considering the team only has a couple of guys with 2nd line potential in the prospect pool (Wingels and Nieto), the Sharks need to stock up on some future assets.

I wouldn't doubt that next year's pick will be better.

I just don't want Nash at all. I'm at the point where I don't even care if all it takes is Clowe and Niemi. It puts us in a cap bind for a long time, especially considering that we may have to start considering an internal cap.

Pinkfloyd 05-25-2012 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by param (Post 50139999)
As long as it's not this year's pick, it wouldn't be a bad deal at all (perhaps also throw in a goalie prospect and get Mason). Even though this pick is outside the top-15 its still the highest default draft pick San Jose has had in the last six years. Considering the team only has a couple of guys with 2nd line potential in the prospect pool (Wingels and Nieto), the Sharks need to stock up on some future assets.

I don't really care that it's the highest in six years. This group of people have shown a history of failing with this kind of pick so they're better off moving it. I would prefer to trade back for more 2nd rounders but moving Clowe and Niemi for Nash is a win to me even with the contract.

damacles1156 05-25-2012 04:57 PM

Nash is so overrated. Columbus is trying to rebuild an entire roster with that trade.

No one is going to give up what that Crack pot GM wants...

Janney 05-25-2012 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer (Post 50140549)
I wouldn't doubt that next year's pick will be better.

I just don't want Nash at all. I'm at the point where I don't even care if all it takes is Clowe and Niemi. It puts us in a cap bind for a long time, especially considering that we may have to start considering an internal cap.

Haha, yeah let me re-phrase that...as long as it's not '12 or '13 pick I'm fine with it.

In regards to the cap bind, you have to figure that the salary cap has not stopped increasing since the lockout, not saying it'll keep increasing at that rate, but at least it won't take a huge nosedive and revert back to what it was 2-3 years ago. While that $7.8mil hit is a lot, the contract is not as bad as it was when he got re-signed couple of years ago.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd (Post 50140677)
I don't really care that it's the highest in six years. This group of people have shown a history of failing with this kind of pick so they're better off moving it. I would prefer to trade back for more 2nd rounders but moving Clowe and Niemi for Nash is a win to me even with the contract.

You could argue that in the last four years the Sharks have only had one first round pick. Maybe the drafting model for San Jose has changed since the days of Kaspar or Morris or Wishart.

The reason I'm so hell bent on retaining our top picks is because when you look at the current top-6 you won't get lucky with guys like Clowe (6th round pick) and Pavelski (7th round pick) over and over again. You need to hedge your bets and start investing in higher picks.

gonegonegone* 05-25-2012 05:27 PM

dw likes to copy success, and success this season was strong defensive play (la, stl, phx, nyr, wash (yes it's true, they played a strong defensive system in the po), nash, and nj) while many of the possession-based (chi, det, sj, van, pitts) teams got destroyed. nash wouldn't make the nhl all-defensive 20th team, so who knows if dw still wants an offensive juggernaut that rarely breaks 70 pts.

that said i'd dump niemi, clowe, and a future 1st for him in a heartbeat.

TheJuxtaposer 05-25-2012 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by param (Post 50142101)
Haha, yeah let me re-phrase that...as long as it's not '12 or '13 pick I'm fine with it.

In regards to the cap bind, you have to figure that the salary cap has not stopped increasing since the lockout, not saying it'll keep increasing at that rate, but at least it won't take a huge nosedive and revert back to what it was 2-3 years ago. While that $7.8mil hit is a lot, the contract is not as bad as it was when he got re-signed couple of years ago.

And I'd be willing to bet the '14 pick will be better than the '13. And a first round pick two years in the future doesn't do much for the Jackets now...

And I said internal cap. When the Sharks window closes, management will have to start spending less to compensate for the crappy team they put out, and then, I want no part of Nash's ever-increasing salary (NOT cap hit).

Bottom line: Nash cripples this franchise for years. Let's not go the Calgary way.

Led Zappa 05-25-2012 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer (Post 50142275)
And I'd be willing to bet the '14 pick will be better than the '13. And a first round pick two years in the future doesn't do much for the Jackets now...

And I said internal cap. When the Sharks window closes, management will have to start spending less to compensate for the crappy team they put out, and then, I want no part of Nash's ever-increasing salary (NOT cap hit).

Bottom line: Nash cripples this franchise for years. Let's not go the Calgary way.

Meh... It goes up 100K a year (200K last year). The CAP is probably going up 4 mil this year alone. Our big boys come off the CAP soon. As this trade would prove, a player with an NTC can be traded if it comes down to it. CAP concerns are a non issue.

I'm not gonna have a big reaction whether we get him or not. I'm not one who believes he can judge how much of an effect a player can have on a team until I see it.

hockeyball 05-25-2012 05:41 PM

I think Nash will garner a much smaller return (as usual) than hf fans think. I think a Clowe + Niemi + deal is totally possible.

Also, Mason has negative value, they are probably going to buy his ass out, so if we take him in trade it should LOWER our return, not raise it. Which I am ok with.

TheJuxtaposer 05-25-2012 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Led Zappa (Post 50142571)
Meh... It goes up 100K a year (200K last year). The CAP is probably going up 4 mil this year alone. Our big boys come off the CAP soon. As this trade would prove, a player with an NTC can be traded if it comes down to it. CAP concerns are a non issue.

I'm talking about real money.

Led Zappa 05-25-2012 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer (Post 50142671)
I'm talking about real money.

If the Sharks have an issue with that salary by then, they will have bigger issues to worry about than that IMO. And if that's the case, so will I. :(

Pinkfloyd 05-25-2012 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by param (Post 50142101)
You could argue that in the last four years the Sharks have only had one first round pick. Maybe the drafting model for San Jose has changed since the days of Kaspar or Morris or Wishart.

The reason I'm so hell bent on retaining our top picks is because when you look at the current top-6 you won't get lucky with guys like Clowe (6th round pick) and Pavelski (7th round pick) over and over again. You need to hedge your bets and start investing in higher picks.

I would doubt the drafting model has changed when it's still the same guys running the draft show. It would be nice to invest in higher picks if the group doing the selecting had the competency to pick and develop them at this range. They don't and that's why I advocate trading back and out of the first round.

TheJuxtaposer 05-25-2012 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Led Zappa (Post 50142953)
If the Sharks have an issue with that salary by then, they will have bigger issues to worry about than that IMO. And if that's the case, so will I. :(

Well that's the point. When Nash is 35 and still being paid $8.2M in real money, he will be untradeable. And that destroys a rebuilding team.

The reality is that we won't always be a cap team, and we need to think ahead to avoid screwing this franchise over long term.

Nighthock 05-25-2012 06:11 PM

I've stopped caring ...

Pinkfloyd 05-25-2012 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer (Post 50143403)
Well that's the point. When Nash is 35 and still being paid $8.2M in real money, he will be untradeable. And that destroys a rebuilding team.

The reality is that we won't always be a cap team, and we need to think ahead to avoid screwing this franchise over long term.

That's assuming that the team hangs on to him for that long. We only kept Heatley for a couple years when it was supposedly untradeable. Nash is someone they can move at 31 when his NMC expires and is likely still a very good player. Someone will bite on it just because he's a star player and likely still productive at that point because while he may not be what people make him out to be, he is not in a worse way than Heatley.


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