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-   -   Kings Article: Taylor Big Part of Kings Success (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1198049)

TonySCV 05-28-2012 08:11 PM

Taylor Big Part of Kings Success
 
LeBrun with another great interview/article, but I thought the gem was revealing who Kings fans really need to thank for drafting Jonathan Quick. Not Al Murray... Brian Putnam http://pview.findlaw.com/view/4206139_1.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/playoffs/2012...-kings-success

the Kings took a chance on Quick at 72nd overall.

"The credit there goes to Brian Putnam, who was a regional scout for us covering the U.S. high schools," said Taylor. "He really pushed for Al to take him."

As a player, Taylor played all of his 17 NHL seasons with the Kings and was captain for four. And, of course, he played on that 1993 Kings team that made the franchise's only appearance in the finals until now.

"That's still a highlight of my playing career, the opportunity to play in the Stanley Cup finals," said Taylor. "That's what everybody dreams of when they lace skates on as a kid. I think in '91 and '92 we might have had better teams, but in '93 a lot of things fell right for us. Gretz was hurt in the first half of that season, so when he came back he was certainly fresh. We had a pretty good club. Certainly the Toronto series was one of the best I've ever seen or was involved with. It was pretty exciting. I was fortunate to be on the ice in the last minute when time ran out. We knew we were going to the Stanley Cup finals. ...

"The finals didn't go the way we or Kings fans wanted, but just having that experience was pretty special."

Rorschach 05-28-2012 10:38 PM

Taylor has a part in the success in drafting Quick, Brown and Kopitar. But it's Lombardi who has built everything and developed those young players into the playoff monsters they are today. I would say it's maybe 98% Lombardi, 2% Taylor. It's not a big number but it's definitely not 0 either.

DryIslandBartender 05-28-2012 10:41 PM

Yeah I thought that article gave way too much credit to Dave Taylor and his drafting...when the reality is that he really stunk at drafting and developing players.

Rorschach 05-28-2012 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy (Post 50259179)
Yeah I thought that article gave way too much credit to Dave Taylor and his drafting...when the reality is that he really stunk at drafting and developing players.

Yeah and more importantly he didn't fire the scouting staff for its incompetence.

You'll notice a lot of teams make excuses for their GM that their hands are tied by the owners. There is some degree of truth to that but then you see Lombardi confronting ownership to go full rebuil mode after a couple years in.

That's one of the big differences that separates Lombardi from guys like Jay Feaster and Dave Taylor.

Notice it's been six years and DT hasn't had another gig as the top guy since.

Ziggy Stardust 05-29-2012 01:30 AM

The one thing that always puzzled me about Taylor and his entire staff is that they never moved around in the draft. They always just sat on their hands at the draft table and waited their turn while other GMs were movers and shakers. Thankfully for the Kings this method worked a handful of times when Dustin Brown and Anze Kopitar fell to their laps, but other times I felt that they just looked at their list and crossed off names and just went with whatever names that were left on there.

DryIslandBartender 05-29-2012 01:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rorschach (Post 50260431)
Yeah and more importantly he didn't fire the scouting staff for its incompetence.

You'll notice a lot of teams make excuses for their GM that their hands are tied by the owners. There is some degree of truth to that but then you see Lombardi confronting ownership to go full rebuil mode after a couple years in.

That's one of the big differences that separates Lombardi from guys like Jay Feaster and Dave Taylor.

Notice it's been six years and DT hasn't had another gig as the top guy since.

The way Taylor kind of took credit for Quick and Brown, just rubs me the wrong way. Lombardi developed them into what they are right now.

Rorschach 05-29-2012 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy (Post 50262501)
The way Taylor kind of took credit for Quick and Brown, just rubs me the wrong way. Lombardi developed them into what they are right now.

Yup. If DT was there, we would have just traded all three of them for Thomas Vanek or something, lol.

- R

Prince 05-29-2012 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust (Post 50262461)
The one thing that always puzzled me about Taylor and his entire staff is that they never moved around in the draft. They always just sat on their hands at the draft table and waited their turn while other GMs were movers and shakers. Thankfully for the Kings this method worked a handful of times when Dustin Brown and Anze Kopitar fell to their laps, but other times I felt that they just looked at their list and crossed off names and just went with whatever names that were left on there.

If the Kings had Kopi at #3, which put in front of Bobby Ryan OR Jack Johnson, and you are watched him fall... The Blackhawks draft at #7, a forward but not the guy # 3 on your list. Then you watch the your division rivals trade in front of you and draft a forward but not the guy # 3 on your list. They you wait for two more teams take their picks I say you must have some VERY good insight those teams are going to defense and not take the guy you have #3 on your board. Don't forget the Kings had 2 second round picks that year to trade up a few spots if necessary. I say waiting for your #3 player to fall to #11 is a huge risk, but I have never sat a draft table.

Capn Brown 05-29-2012 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rorschach (Post 50259073)
Taylor has a part in the success in drafting Quick, Brown and Kopitar. But it's Lombardi who has built everything and developed those young players into the playoff monsters they are today. I would say it's maybe 98% Lombardi, 2% Taylor. It's not a big number but it's definitely not 0 either.


Not even close. Kopitar, Brown, and Quick ARE the Kings. Everybody else is everybody else. Yeah, Dean got Doughty, but that was just the runner-up prize for not getting Stamkos. It's more like 50% / 50%. Dave doesn't get enough credit.

Capn Brown 05-29-2012 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ziggy Stardust (Post 50262461)
The one thing that always puzzled me about Taylor and his entire staff is that they never moved around in the draft. They always just sat on their hands at the draft table and waited their turn while other GMs were movers and shakers.

That's because Dave's not an "all of a sudden" type of guy. It's very difficult to be stutterer and be an "all of a sudden" type of guy at the same time.

kingsfan 05-29-2012 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capn Brown (Post 50266521)
Not even close. Kopitar, Brown, and Quick ARE the Kings. Everybody else is everybody else. Yeah, Dean got Doughty, but that was just the runner-up prize for not getting Stamkos. It's more like 50% / 50%. Dave doesn't get enough credit.

50/50? Ridiculous.

Taylor drafted those three players, but how many played a game under Taylor's regime? One, Dustin Brown. And even then, people have said he was rushed and shouldn't have been in the NHL right away. There's much more to building an NHL team than drafting some good players. You have to develop them too, and guys like Kopitar and Quick, outside of MAYBE a rookie camp, never did anything under the Taylor regime. They were fully developed and trained at the pro level by Lombardi and his crew. To give Taylor half the credit for this cup run, six years after he left for drafting three players off a roster of 20, of which only one seen the light of the professional ranks while he was the GM, is incredibly generous on your part.

Taylor likely deserves a handshake and a pat on the back for his efforts. That's it. Not to mention there really is no proof those players would have turned out the same or perhaps have been traded away by Taylor. Look what he did with the one goaltender he drafted and developed as a Kings GM, Christobel Huet. Traded him for Garon. Who says he wouldn't do the same again with Quick?

DL had the foresight to stick with these guys, build around them and ignore what was likely several good offers for them over the years.

TonySCV 05-29-2012 09:58 AM

You can be an all-world drafter, but if you don't properly develop players, then it's all for nothing.

Players that did well prior to Lombardi coming in and overhauling the development program were excelling in spite of proper development, not because of it. Cammalleri falls into that category. Frolov as well. Imagine how good they would have been with proper development.

There were a lot of players the Kings drafted that fizzled under Taylor's regime and prior regimes primarily due to a lack of proper development.

Dave in LA 05-29-2012 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capn Brown (Post 50266615)
That's because Dave's not an "all of a sudden" type of guy. It's very difficult to be stutterer and be an "all of a sudden" type of guy at the same time.

WTF is that suppose to mean? If you want to attack his lack of moving up or down in the draft fine, but don't make fun of his stutter. What a stupid comment.

I'm not making excuses for DT & his staff, but they were still learning on the job. Could they have figured it out? Maybe, eventually. He really didn't have the best team around him. Not to mention drafting players like Bednar instead of Bergeron or Pushkarov instead of Pominville.

If DL gets credit for drafting players that eventually got traded in SJ to get Thornton & other players, DT should get the same credit. After all, DT drafted Cammalleri, Visnovski & Belanger. These players turned into Penner, Carter, Stoll & Greene. 4 players that have had huge impacts for the Kings. Especially now.

There's no doubt DL is a better at developing players.

Dave in LA 05-29-2012 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsfan (Post 50267383)
50/50? Ridiculous.

Taylor drafted those three players, but how many played a game under Taylor's regime? One, Dustin Brown. And even then, people have said he was rushed and shouldn't have been in the NHL right away. There's much more to building an NHL team than drafting some good players. You have to develop them too, and guys like Kopitar and Quick, outside of MAYBE a rookie camp, never did anything under the Taylor regime. They were fully developed and trained at the pro level by Lombardi and his crew. To give Taylor half the credit for this cup run, six years after he left for drafting three players off a roster of 20, of which only one seen the light of the professional ranks while he was the GM, is incredibly generous on your part.

Taylor likely deserves a handshake and a pat on the back for his efforts. That's it. Not to mention there really is no proof those players would have turned out the same or perhaps have been traded away by Taylor. Look what he did with the one goaltender he drafted and developed as a Kings GM, Christobel Huet. Traded him for Garon. Who says he wouldn't do the same again with Quick?

DL had the foresight to stick with these guys, build around them and ignore what was likely several good offers for them over the years.

I somewhat agree with this. AEG & TL weren't going to spend to make the team better. TL admitted they weren't going to compete for a Cup until there was a cap in place & the Kings weren't a priority. They would try to put a competitive team on the ice that they hoped would catch fire & make a run. That didn't work & the excuses were running thin. DT was too hesitant to pull the trigger. He wouldn't trade draft picks & the depth was pretty thin. What could he do?

I agree, Brown was rushed a little. He should have gone back to Guelph.

Capn Brown 05-29-2012 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingsfan (Post 50267383)
50/50? Ridiculous.

Taylor drafted those three players, but how many played a game under Taylor's regime? One, Dustin Brown.


I'm sorry, but that argument is ridiculous.

Capn Brown 05-29-2012 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave in LA (Post 50267721)
WTF is that suppose to mean? If you want to attack his lack of moving up or down in the draft fine, but don't make fun of his stutter. What a stupid comment.


Why do you assume I'm "making fun" of his stutter? Do you have any idea what it's like to be a stutterer? I do, because I am one. Guys like me simply CANNOT do spur of the moment things, least of all quickly get on the phone & make a deal on draft day. That's when the stuttering comes out the most, during high stress situations.

Please apologize for calling my comment "stupid" or forever earn my enmity. :madfire:

kingsfan 05-29-2012 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capn Brown (Post 50268727)
I'm sorry, but that argument is ridiculous.

Based on what? Are you saying that development has nothing to do with things? You have already said DT deserves 50% of the credit simply because he drafted 15% of the team (3 of 20 players), despite the fact he hasn't even been with the organization for six years.

If you honestly think that player development, including at the NHL level, matters little or nothing, then you really need to take a step back and relearn this game. Finding talent is important, no question, but there's a reason some players turn out like Brian Lee and some turn out like Anze Kopitar, and much of that goes to the team and its development system.

kingsfan 05-29-2012 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capn Brown (Post 50268841)
Why do you assume I'm "making fun" of his stutter? Do you have any idea what it's like to be a stutterer? I do, because I am one. Guys like me simply CANNOT do spur of the moment things, least of all quickly get on the phone & make a deal on draft day. That's when the stuttering comes out the most, during high stress situations.

Please apologize for calling my comment "stupid" or forever earn my enmity. :madfire:

So because Dave Taylor has a stutter, the Assistant GM can't get on the phone and talk on his behalf? I'm sure given the situation that permission is granted or an arrangement is worked out ahead of time.

DryIslandBartender 05-29-2012 11:33 AM

Yeah, I like how the Dave Taylor regime "knew" Brown was captain material. That was a great move of bringing in Avery, DT...certainly helped along Brown in the locker room. Brilliant GM'ing. :laugh:

AKAY47 05-29-2012 11:40 AM

2003 was the deepest draft in recent history, that first round was unbelievable. Some of those names have single handily turned franchises over, (Fleury, Parise, Perry/Getzlaf, Carter/Richards, Eric Staal, Tomas Vanek, Ryan Suter, Brent Seabrook) are all pretty big names. We should've hit big time in that draft and it was a complete failure. Those 3 first round picks we had that year should've been the cornerstone of the Kings future and franchise. Yes, we did get our future captain and gem Dustin Brown, but completely failed with the Brian Boyle and Jeff Tambellini picks. Not to mention the year after, selecting a guy like Lauri Tukonen. Luckily Lombardi came along and shipped him off for Rich Clune. Since the '06 draft, I've only had a problem with ONE first round pick, and that's Derek Forbort. I still don't know why we went defense with that pick, but it's ok. Karl Alzner should've been the pick instead of Hickey but I'm ok with Hickey too.

Lombardi is a genius, Dave Taylor deserves 0 credit for this. He screwed this franchise over, left Lombardi with scraps, had to start from nothing

Dave in LA 05-29-2012 01:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Capn Brown (Post 50268841)
Why do you assume I'm "making fun" of his stutter? Do you have any idea what it's like to be a stutterer? I do, because I am one. Guys like me simply CANNOT do spur of the moment things, least of all quickly get on the phone & make a deal on draft day. That's when the stuttering comes out the most, during high stress situations.

Please apologize for calling my comment "stupid" or forever earn my enmity. :madfire:

I never called you stupid. Your comment comes off as making fun of DT. But since you clarified your answer, I'm ok with it. So if you think I called you stupid, then sorry.

bobafettish* 05-29-2012 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AKAY47 (Post 50270555)
2003 was the deepest draft in recent history, that first round was unbelievable. Some of those names have single handily turned franchises over, (Fleury, Parise, Perry/Getzlaf, Carter/Richards, Eric Staal, Tomas Vanek, Ryan Suter, Brent Seabrook) are all pretty big names. We should've hit big time in that draft and it was a complete failure. Those 3 first round picks we had that year should've been the cornerstone of the Kings future and franchise. Yes, we did get our future captain and gem Dustin Brown, but completely failed with the Brian Boyle and Jeff Tambellini picks. Not to mention the year after, selecting a guy like Lauri Tukonen. Luckily Lombardi came along and shipped him off for Rich Clune. Since the '06 draft, I've only had a problem with ONE first round pick, and that's Derek Forbort. I still don't know why we went defense with that pick, but it's ok. Karl Alzner should've been the pick instead of Hickey but I'm ok with Hickey too.

Lombardi is a genius, Dave Taylor deserves 0 credit for this. He screwed this franchise over, left Lombardi with scraps, had to start from nothing

yea brown kopitar and quick are nothing. :shakehead

DryIslandBartender 05-29-2012 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobafettish (Post 50273635)
yea brown kopitar and quick are nothing. :shakehead

They were nothing, Quick slept in and missed practice during DL's first year. That changed pretty quickly under DL...Brown was not captain material until DL came in and changed the culture. Kopitar was just an offensive centre, those guys were dime a dozen in the NHL...but DL turned him into a two way player. Would a DT regime do any of that...probably not.

There was a loser mentality culture before DL got in there...that's why the year before DL came in we fell from 2nd place in the West to missing the playoffs because we traded away all of our assets and had nobody to bring up. Our Development program was crap.

kingsfan 05-29-2012 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy (Post 50273929)
They were nothing, Quick slept in and missed practice during DL's first year. That changed pretty quickly under DL...Brown was not captain material until DL came in and changed the culture. Kopitar was just an offensive centre, those guys were dime a dozen in the NHL...but DL turned him into a two way player. Would a DT regime do any of that...probably not.

There was a loser mentality culture before DL got in there...that's why the year before DL came in we fell from 2nd place in the West to missing the playoffs because we traded away all of our assets and had nobody to bring up. Our Development program was crap.

I think you are taking to much credit towards DL here. Yeah, he did develop those players, but you still have to give Quick and Kopitar something here. They did the work and put in the time and effort. They coul have gone the way of POS, but they put inthe effort. DL deserves credit for their development, but it's not like he did it all.

Sam 05-29-2012 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BerniernextRoy (Post 50270291)
Yeah, I like how the Dave Taylor regime "knew" Brown was captain material. That was a great move of bringing in Avery, DT...certainly helped along Brown in the locker room. Brilliant GM'ing. :laugh:

You do realize you're putting down Lombardi with that comment as well, right? Taylor was set to get rid of Avery in 2006. Lombardi brought him back.


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