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-   -   SEL vs KHL (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1198605)

Rumcajs 05-29-2012 07:16 PM

SEL vs KHL
 
Quick question.

Is the SEL better worse or as good as the KHL in terms of talent in the league and the strength of each clubs.

cheerupmurray 05-30-2012 12:09 AM

This will be a onesided poll, KHL is simpy a better league.

Nuttso* 05-30-2012 09:17 AM

Elitserien is "better" but khl is better because they are much bigger. If elitserien had been in a country with 150 millions people the sel would be much better than nhl and khl.

joe89 05-30-2012 11:38 AM

The only two areas where the SEL hold up somewhat against the KHL is goaltending and tactical soundness. Team parity is better in the SEL aswell. But skater quality from top to bottom is KHL all the way.

Rumcajs 05-30-2012 12:28 PM

Thanks for the input. I just wanted to make sure KHL fans weren't homers since i only have 2 games of experience watching SEL (Djurgarden :laugh: ) and none with the KHL.

icing 05-30-2012 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nuttso (Post 50302875)
Elitserien is "better" but khl is better because they are much bigger. If elitserien had been in a country with 150 millions people the sel would be much better than nhl and khl.

If Canada had 150 million people the NHL would be better than the SEL if Sweden had 150 million people. If Germany had 500 million people they probably would be better in hockey than they are today. If Norway had 40 million people the SEL would have much more Norwegians in the league. If Sweden had 150 million people we probably would have won the WHC this year - so that must mean that we are the true champions, not Russia. Or?


There are NO if's or but's. The Sel is what it is, Sweden have 9 million people and the KHL is a better league.

KRM 05-30-2012 03:52 PM

But come professionalism in how things are run, tv covarage, etc SEL wins in a landslide.

ozo 05-30-2012 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KRM (Post 50317545)
But come professionalism in how things are run, tv covarage, etc SEL wins in a landslide.

Not entirely sure what you mean by all this but I don't think things are as one sided as you seem to portret them. I may not be completely neutral in your eyes but because of effing Viasat I've seen quite a bit of Allsvenskan (not SEL) games and without speaking a lick of Swedish coverage indeed seems superior in quality to Russian, but then again all KHL games are televised, first HD equipment is being bought, league has it's own TV channel, official stores are popping up here and there. Does SEL has English website like KHL has? I don't think so. Some of Swedish hockey arenas looks rather dated as the most horrible ones in KHL.

But could you, please, elaborate more, what you meant by your post a bit more.

SurMartin 05-30-2012 07:16 PM

Most players who choose to stay in SEL despite KHL-teams hunting them says it's because of "quality of life" and the fact that they can develop just as well in Sweden.

e91a 05-31-2012 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozo (Post 50319211)
Not entirely sure what you mean by all this but I don't think things are as one sided as you seem to portret them. I may not be completely neutral in your eyes but because of effing Viasat I've seen quite a bit of Allsvenskan (not SEL) games and without speaking a lick of Swedish coverage indeed seems superior in quality to Russian, but then again all KHL games are televised, first HD equipment is being bought, league has it's own TV channel, official stores are popping up here and there. Does SEL has English website like KHL has? I don't think so. Some of Swedish hockey arenas looks rather dated as the most horrible ones in KHL.

But could you, please, elaborate more, what you meant by your post a bit more.

There is a big sign "in english" at hockeyligan.se so yes, there is a english homepage.
http://www.hockeyligan.se/blog/5/

And btw, is there anywhere i can find attendence numbers in the season? Cause some teams in KHL got for me suprising low attendence maxiumum, like 4000 only?

1912 05-31-2012 09:24 AM

Attendance figures(averages) in European hockey leagues 2011-2012

1.Sweden - Elitserien
6,385

2.Switzerland - National League A
6,305

3.Germany - Deutsche Eishockey Liga
6,060

4.Russia - Kontinental Hockey League
5,891

5.Finland - SM-liiga
5,103

6.Czech Republic - Extraliga
4,824

7.Austria - EBEL
3,606

8.Slovakia - Extraliga
2,687

9.Great Britain - Elite Ice Hockey League
2,028

10.Norway - Get Ligaen
1,462

11.France - Ligue Magnus
1,391

12.Denmark - AL-Bank Liga
1,301

13.Belarus - Extraliga
1,111

14.Asia League (CHN/KOR/JPN)
1,024

15.Italy - Serie A
987

e91a 05-31-2012 10:48 AM

How can the Attendance in KHL be so freaking low? They got a great product and also the country itself has a big hockey-history?

svartgul 05-31-2012 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e91a (Post 50352269)
How can the Attendance in KHL be so freaking low? They got a great product and also the country itself has a big hockey-history?

Go back a couple of pages in this thread (sorry, meant the Nordic league thread) and you'll read all about the rapid expansion of the KHL and how they are destroying our attendance numbers and how we pathetic mediocre swedes are standing idly by watching the imminent demize of our pathetic and mediocre hockey league unless we join their awesome happy-fun-time hockey-rocket to the moon and then all our difficulties will magically solve themselves :sarcasm:

zorz 05-31-2012 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svartgul (Post 50352753)
Go back a couple of pages in this thread (sorry, meant the Nordic league thread) and you'll read all about the rapid expansion of the KHL and how they are destroying our attendance numbers and how we pathetic mediocre swedes are standing idly by watching the imminent demize of our pathetic and mediocre hockey league unless we join their awesome happy-fun-time hockey-rocket to the moon and then all our difficulties will magically solve themselves :sarcasm:

Don't forget the Swedes count in fake spectators, we've seen that during WC :sarcasm:

KRM 05-31-2012 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozo (Post 50319211)
Not entirely sure what you mean by all this but I don't think things are as one sided as you seem to portret them. I may not be completely neutral in your eyes but because of effing Viasat I've seen quite a bit of Allsvenskan (not SEL) games and without speaking a lick of Swedish coverage indeed seems superior in quality to Russian, but then again all KHL games are televised, first HD equipment is being bought, league has it's own TV channel, official stores are popping up here and there. Does SEL has English website like KHL has? I don't think so. Some of Swedish hockey arenas looks rather dated as the most horrible ones in KHL.

But could you, please, elaborate more, what you meant by your post a bit more.

Well Viasat's covarage of HockeyAllsvenskan doesn't hold a candle to Canal+'s covarage of Elitserien. But that's not the point, KHL can sure produce a good broadcast, the standard in the playoffs is quite good.

Overall I think the SEL, and the way the league is run as a business is superior to the KHL. Unfortunately the Swedish Ice Hockey Federation is doing a good job dragging down the league, but from a business standpoint the SEL and their individual clubs are most often run by very good organisations. The money the league and the clubs are able to attract is very impressive IMO.

And I don't want to go into politics and standard of living debate, but I have no doubt in my mind that the Cherepanov or Jaroslavl incidents would never have happen in Sweden.

Fulcrum 05-31-2012 06:31 PM

I can't speak for SEL, but we are only NOW starting to see the hundreds of millions of $$$ being invested into KHL. There was a huge infrastructure investment (new arenas, tv network, website, officiating, MHL) which is still far from done- and it'll take time to see the effects.

The trend and the pace of improvement in KHL is very high within last few years. If quality is not always visible yet, it will be for sure in a few years. There are ambitious people with very deep pockets, so I imagine they'll see it through.

KRM 05-31-2012 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fulcrum (Post 50369847)
I can't speak for SEL, but we are only NOW starting to see the hundreds of millions of $$$ being invested into KHL. There was a huge infrastructure investment (new arenas, tv network, website, officiating, MHL) which is still far from done- and it'll take time to see the effects.

The trend and the pace of improvement in KHL is very high within last few years. If quality is not always visible yet, it will be for sure in a few years. There are ambitious people with very deep pockets, so I imagine they'll see it through.

Let's hope so, I think a strong competitive league to the NHL is good for hockey.

ult 05-31-2012 10:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svartgul (Post 50352753)
Go back a couple of pages in this thread (sorry, meant the Nordic league thread) and you'll read all about the rapid expansion of the KHL and how they are destroying our attendance numbers and how we pathetic mediocre swedes are standing idly by watching the imminent demize of our pathetic and mediocre hockey league unless we join their awesome happy-fun-time hockey-rocket to the moon and then all our difficulties will magically solve themselves :sarcasm:

How many teams out there in SEL? 12? Ok, let's take a look at top 12 KHL teams attendance numbers.

1Dinamo Minsk14193
2SKA10126
3Avangard9146
4Salavat Yulaev7950
5Dinamo Riga7938
6Traktor7374
7Amur7100
8Metallurg Mg7002
9Sibir6293
10Atlant6278
11Torpedo5470
12Neftekhimik4911

That makes it 7815 average...

6,385, how about you shrink to 5 teams to make your average even more impressive.

vorky 06-01-2012 12:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ult (Post 50377305)
How many teams out there in SEL? 12? Ok, let's take a look at top 12 KHL teams attendance numbers.

1Dinamo Minsk14193
2SKA10126
3Avangard9146
4Salavat Yulaev7950
5Dinamo Riga7938
6Traktor7374
/7Amur7100
8Metallurg Mg7002
9Sibir6293
10Atlant6278
11Torpedo5470
12Neftekhimik4911

That makes it 7815 average...

6,385, how about you shrink to 5 teams to make your average even more impressive.

yes, and next season Slovan and HC LEV will have attendance above 10 000. for sure

zorz 06-01-2012 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorky (Post 50380567)
yes, and next season Slovan and HC LEV will have attendance above 10 000. for sure

Sparta averaged 6273. I think Lev could be happy if they had the same number this season.

e91a 06-01-2012 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ult (Post 50377305)
How many teams out there in SEL? 12? Ok, let's take a look at top 12 KHL teams attendance numbers.

1Dinamo Minsk14193
2SKA10126
3Avangard9146
4Salavat Yulaev7950
5Dinamo Riga7938
6Traktor7374
7Amur7100
8Metallurg Mg7002
9Sibir6293
10Atlant6278
11Torpedo5470
12Neftekhimik4911

That makes it 7815 average...

6,385, how about you shrink to 5 teams to make your average even more impressive.

I'd consider that bad if you see how many people that live in russia and then also the teams from outside russia is mostly in capital citys. It should be average at least 10.000.

vorky 06-01-2012 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zorz (Post 50381693)
Sparta averaged 6273. I think Lev could be happy if they had the same number this season.

we will see, HC LEV has bigger market - do russians attend games of Sparta? I dont think so, but they can watch KHL. Of course, czechs maybe wont be so interested, but they are not the most important fanbase.

vorky 06-01-2012 03:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by e91a (Post 50381763)
I'd consider that bad if you see how many people that live in russia and then also the teams from outside russia is mostly in capital citys. It should be average at least 10.000.

Do you know how capacity arenas have?

Minsk - 15 000
SKA St Pete - 11 439
Avangard - 10 318
Salavat Yulaev - 7950 (100%)
Dinamo Riga - 10 300
Traktor - 7 500
Amur - 7100 (100%)
Metallurg Mg - 7 500
Sibir - 7 384
Atlant - 6 434
Torpedo - 5 600
Neftekhimik - 5 500

now compare this with attendance numbers.. how is it? 80+% of arena?

Dont worry, new arenas are building (15 000+)

zorz 06-01-2012 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vorky (Post 50382527)
we will see, HC LEV has bigger market - do russians attend games of Sparta? I dont think so, but they can watch KHL. Of course, czechs maybe wont be so interested, but they are not the most important fanbase.

what? I'm pretty sure no matter how many people will be in the stands, the czechs will be always more than 50% of them.

vorky 06-01-2012 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zorz (Post 50382683)
what? I'm pretty sure no matter how many people will be in the stands, the czechs will be always more than 50% of them.

yes, maybe I used bad terms. I mean "HC LEV môže lákať aj ruských/zahraničných obyvateľov Prahy a okolia, nie len rodených Čechov. Sparta myslím zameriava pozornosť len na české obyvateľstvo -majoritne. Lev ma v tomto vyhodu, väčší zaber" Sorry for writing in slovak.. my bad english :D


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