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-   -   OT: IF there is a buyout (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1198801)

leaponover 05-30-2012 04:47 AM

IF there is a buyout
 
Just wanted to run this by you, it makes me a little bit annoyed when we talk buyouts here. I don't think i'll ever really be able to justify a buyout. It pretty much gives the owner/gm an "i'm free to be a moron" card once every four years or so which I think is laughable alone.

My problem is though, there should be certain things that immediately exclude you from being able to buyout someone. The one immediate exclusion should be if you acquired the player and contract via trade!! You are telling me that one manager made a boneheaded contract and then another one traded for that boneheaded contract. Nah, that doesn't fly for me. If part of the reason you are offering a buyout is due to a contract becoming too big of a burden and immovable and you need to free up cap space, then hell no because you obviously considered the contract movable when you took it on.

My two obvious examples are Gomez and Carter. No way should either the Kings or the Canadiens be allowed a buyout for them. In Carter's instance he's been traded TWICE under the current contract. It's obviously not a hindrance and they need to be stuck with it!

Just my rant....

IsleNmetFan4Life 05-30-2012 07:06 PM

I see your point, but on the other hand, take a team like us with Ricky's contract. We were boneheaded enough to draw up and sign him to that contract... If a team that is dumb enough to take on contracts shouldn't be allowed a buyout, why should the team that was dumb enough to originally sign the player be allowed one?

leaponover 05-30-2012 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IsleNmetFan4Life (Post 50322373)
I see your point, but on the other hand, take a team like us with Ricky's contract. We were boneheaded enough to draw up and sign him to that contract... If a team that is dumb enough to take on contracts shouldn't be allowed a buyout, why should the team that was dumb enough to originally sign the player be allowed one?

because at some point you have to say, well is it just that every team in the NHL is dumb, or is the contract really not that bad and you can live with it. When three different teams feel Jeff Carter's contract is ok to have on the books, it's not bad enough to get a buyout.

IslandersFan 05-31-2012 02:26 PM

Dipietro's contract was not necessarily bone-headed because of the $$ or the length.

Once you factor in his medical history prior to signing the contract, it than becomes a bone-headed contract

ichabod13 05-31-2012 07:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandersFan (Post 50358543)
Dipietro's contract was not necessarily bone-headed because of the $$ or the length.

Once you factor in his medical history prior to signing the contract, it than becomes a bone-headed contract

from the day he was drafted ( 6-24-00 ) up to the day he signed the monster contract ( 6-12-06 ) , he missed 7 games due to injury and one game due to the flu. not enough of a "medical history" if you ask me.......

boredmale 05-31-2012 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ichabod13 (Post 50369555)
from the day he was drafted ( 6-24-00 ) up to the day he signed the monster contract ( 6-12-06 ) , he missed 7 games due to injury and one game due to the flu. not enough of a "medical history" if you ask me.......

I was just about to point this out Dipietro wasn't injury prone till 3/4 of a season into that deal. It's a case of bad luck on the Islanders part(ie of all the long term deals we luck out getting the guy who becomes injury prone)

leaponover 05-31-2012 10:38 PM

I really don't want to get into the DP contract too much, but I too agree it was just bad luck. If DP hadn't gotten injured and continued to put up the same numbers as before his injury his contract would be a steal. It was a risk because he could always get injured, and that's exactly what happened. That's just bad luck in my opinion (but still a risk of a contract) but the last thing this needs to turn into is a thread about the worth of DP because it just gives the negative haters on here a chance to have a field day.

Wang took a risk in signing DP long term, the risk at this point has resulted in so far being a bad contract. They should not be able to buy him out because Wang knew he was taking a risk. Buying him out means it's now less risky to sign whomever you want to long term deals without worrying about the consequences.

A Pointed Stick 06-01-2012 02:30 PM

Wang will never buy him out as long as the contract accomplishes a purpose. The purpose here is to fill the huge hole caused by an inability to entice players to sign here while meeting the minimum club salary requirements. Meanwhile, Insurance recompenses him for much of Ricky's salary. So in essence he is able to sidestep the minimum salary requirements.

That is the formula keeping Ricky here no matter what comes out of the upcoming CBA. He is the one owner able to circumvent the cap using insurance money. If Charles could somehow get Tavares, Okposo, etc., injured out long term I suspect he'd like that as well, because they would still count vs. the cap and he would be reimbursed via insurance, thus allowing him to operate an even lower bottom line.

Hm. Makes you wonder about the lack of physical response the owner seems to prefer, but I digress. No way Ricky gets bought out, ever, for the reasons I outlined.

Dutch Frost 06-01-2012 05:56 PM

It will officially be called The Charles Wang rule.

Hey the Islanders are known for something!!

Fan101 06-01-2012 08:40 PM

In the case of DiPietro's contract I wonder if it is backed up by insurance. I agree that he was not injury prone and really showed as the franchise player. Considering how some GM's were offering big numbers for franchise FA's, Wang and Snow felt it was a good risk to sign him long term rather than risk losing him.

In the case of Gomez, Montreal is under big pressure to win and along with Gionta he was a factor in their 2010 playoff run. Ditto Carter with this year's Kings run. For the big franchises, the top rated players are like race horses that routinely get bought and sold. The big franchises not onlyhave the big fan bases but also figure prominently into media ratings for the Canadian networks and noe NBC.

OlTimeHockey 06-02-2012 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boredmale (Post 50374901)
I was just about to point this out Dipietro wasn't injury prone till 3/4 of a season into that deal. It's a case of bad luck on the Islanders part(ie of all the long term deals we luck out getting the guy who becomes injury prone)

Hey, I knew he was gonna be a big injury risk and you can ook up my posts. Knees were bad then (before the injury). Groin injuries. HIS TECHNIQUE. (lack of)

Bad luck it got worse? For the Isles, sure....if they didn't see it coming. But hey, who could tel the way he gambles, sprawls everywhere, goes down so hard, is so often out of position, how he works out TOO MUCH and so on....who knew he'd be injury prone?

Oh, yeah, I did. A lot of people called it.

Bad contract, bad idea. The Isles? Well, Neil Smith tried to not go ahead with it. The backup goalie didn't try so hard.

He had knee issues. He had concussion issues. He rushed through injuries regularly. Then the contract.

BTW, flashback....
http://blogimages.thescore.com/nhl/f...ietroboom1.gif
Didn't think twice all this time, but does it not look like El BJ hit DP's broken face WITH HIS ELBOW, not his fist?

leaponover 06-02-2012 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey (Post 50417853)
Hey, I knew he was gonna be a big injury risk and you can ook up my posts. Knees were bad then (before the injury). Groin injuries. HIS TECHNIQUE. (lack of)

Bad luck it got worse? For the Isles, sure....if they didn't see it coming. But hey, who could tel the way he gambles, sprawls everywhere, goes down so hard, is so often out of position, how he works out TOO MUCH and so on....who knew he'd be injury prone?

Oh, yeah, I did. A lot of people called it.

Bad contract, bad idea. The Isles? Well, Neil Smith tried to not go ahead with it. The backup goalie didn't try so hard.

He had knee issues. He had concussion issues. He rushed through injuries regularly. Then the contract.

BTW, flashback....
http://blogimages.thescore.com/nhl/f...ietroboom1.gif
Didn't think twice all this time, but does it not look like El BJ hit DP's broken face WITH HIS ELBOW, not his fist?

It's a bad angle I think. When I saw it I remember it clearly being a fist. I think with the padding he wouldn't have gotten pure elbow contact anyway.

As far as you knowing all this, great. You are definitely a psychic because no one else saw it coming. I'm sure you'll have many posters jumping on your bandwagon about being a soothsayer, but there were no professionals out there who ever doubted DP's health. Also funny you are criticizing him with the same words used to describe another goaltender. (Dominik Hasek :sarcasm:)

OlTimeHockey 06-02-2012 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leaponover (Post 50419477)
It's a bad angle I think. When I saw it I remember it clearly being a fist. I think with the padding he wouldn't have gotten pure elbow contact anyway.

As far as you knowing all this, great. You are definitely a psychic because no one else saw it coming. I'm sure you'll have many posters jumping on your bandwagon about being a soothsayer, but there were no professionals out there who ever doubted DP's health. Also funny you are criticizing him with the same words used to describe another goaltender. (Dominik Hasek :sarcasm:)

Dom and Rick play a loosey goosey style. Dom was not a weight lifting junkey. Muscle addition tightens the joints and promotes stiffness. Rick bulked up the summer right before this first 15 year offer, correct?

Yeah, saw it coming, and not by psychic means. Rick was a moron. Don't you realize it's (likely) why he toned DOWN recently? And he had one hurt knee, which he didn't let heal fully before playing again.....which means he likely favored the other, which led to the second knee. You don't need med school for this logic. Yes, many of us saw this whole injury thing coming.

leaponover 06-03-2012 12:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey (Post 50424875)
Dom and Rick play a loosey goosey style. Dom was not a weight lifting junkey. Muscle addition tightens the joints and promotes stiffness. Rick bulked up the summer right before this first 15 year offer, correct?

Yeah, saw it coming, and not by psychic means. Rick was a moron. Don't you realize it's (likely) why he toned DOWN recently? And he had one hurt knee, which he didn't let heal fully before playing again.....which means he likely favored the other, which led to the second knee. You don't need med school for this logic. Yes, many of us saw this whole injury thing coming.

you aren't really talking prediction here, you are just listing the course of events that happened. Predicting an injury to the second knee because him coming back to early from repairing the first, logically makes sense. I don't see ANYONE predicting the first knee injury. I still don't see much fact to your statement about many seeing this coming as I've seen no links or anything. I kinda just have to take your word for it just as I predicted the Kings would make it to the finals when the playoffs started but I have nothing to back it up with as it was all verbal and nothing written...

OlTimeHockey 06-03-2012 02:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leaponover (Post 50449765)
you aren't really talking prediction here, you are just listing the course of events that happened. Predicting an injury to the second knee because him coming back to early from repairing the first, logically makes sense. I don't see ANYONE predicting the first knee injury. I still don't see much fact to your statement about many seeing this coming as I've seen no links or anything. I kinda just have to take your word for it just as I predicted the Kings would make it to the finals when the playoffs started but I have nothing to back it up with as it was all verbal and nothing written...

it's called a hunch. I had the hunch about Quick, but NOT THE REST OF LA.

I picked Phoenix, another in the Anaheim/Carolina/TB line of one hit blunders.

But I called Rick just watching how he goes down and abuses his body UNNECESSARILY in his "style" (sizzling bacon). Of course you hurt your knees playing like that. Hasek? He's a friggen marvel....now I just pray he stays retired (he's announced he wants more fame/glory/money at age 47, unretiring yet again.

So no fact other than I was making fun of sizzling bacon way back much to the chagrin of many and said he would get injured and retire early. I don't wanna look it up on the old posts - they might even be on Imania (why did I ever post there?) - but several people hated anything anti-Ricky but now are fed up as well.

Rick's style sucks and did him in. Maybe I'll look for ten year old posts saying he'd be hurt. Lemme try and get bored enough to go through the whole rigmarole.

leaponover 06-03-2012 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OlTimeHockey (Post 50453493)
it's called a hunch. I had the hunch about Quick, but NOT THE REST OF LA.

I picked Phoenix, another in the Anaheim/Carolina/TB line of one hit blunders.

But I called Rick just watching how he goes down and abuses his body UNNECESSARILY in his "style" (sizzling bacon). Of course you hurt your knees playing like that. Hasek? He's a friggen marvel....now I just pray he stays retired (he's announced he wants more fame/glory/money at age 47, unretiring yet again.

So no fact other than I was making fun of sizzling bacon way back much to the chagrin of many and said he would get injured and retire early. I don't wanna look it up on the old posts - they might even be on Imania (why did I ever post there?) - but several people hated anything anti-Ricky but now are fed up as well.

Rick's style sucks and did him in. Maybe I'll look for ten year old posts saying he'd be hurt. Lemme try and get bored enough to go through the whole rigmarole.

Haha, no need to delve into them. I wasn't really looking for proof just wondering if your rationale back then was more like, "i hope this kid doesn't get hurt the way he flops around" or, "I think this kid is going to be injured most of his NHL career and we never should have drafted him". I could see it being the former but if you were really thinking the latter than you definitely need to buy a lotto ticket or something!

Wow, if Hasek comes out of retirement I'll be shocked!!

OlTimeHockey 06-04-2012 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leaponover (Post 50478027)
Haha, no need to delve into them. I wasn't really looking for proof just wondering if your rationale back then was more like, "i hope this kid doesn't get hurt the way he flops around" or, "I think this kid is going to be injured most of his NHL career and we never should have drafted him". I could see it being the former but if you were really thinking the latter than you definitely need to buy a lotto ticket or something!

Wow, if Hasek comes out of retirement I'll be shocked!!

He's trying to.....if some ape***t nuts GM bites, I'll be shocked.

Rick I started to think what a mistake. Then I saw him play. Then it turned to what a f*ing joke. As I watched, I saw the gambles and wandering and saw he'd be hurt a lot from contact, but then I noticed how he went down and scrambled and thought he'd be a surgery case. THEN I saw him start to bulk up and it was a sure thing. His joints would go to Hades. I posted as much, but that, I believe, is what my take on him was. Nothing psychic. Just a person who had two clacking purple knees in college from the game (and kneecaps that would gross you out if I moved them around - I got them much better without professional therapy or surgery. Hope to have my ankle move freely full motion sooner or later from a later injury, though age hinders that one).


I once called him The Chosen One, and someone one upped it with The Golden Child and he got that nickname. I don't take any credit but **** I can't believe I missed that one - it stuck a lot easier and was totally better.

Nowadays I feel bad for him since he's matured FOR REAL since his marriage. Before that I think he was a total fraud, but hey, I feel bad for the lop.

Icedemon 06-05-2012 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IslandersFan (Post 50358543)
Dipietro's contract was not necessarily bone-headed because of the $$ or the length.

Once you factor in his medical history prior to signing the contract, it than becomes a bone-headed contract

The length of the contract was what has been criticized since day 1.


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