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-   -   Official NYR "Untouchables" Poll / Discussion (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1199257)

Zuccarello Awesome* 05-30-2012 08:28 PM

Official NYR "Untouchables" Poll / Discussion
 
There has been a lot of discussion already, and as the offseason continues, there will be plenty of healthy debate over which players the Rangers should entertain offers for, and which players are simply off limits, regardless of the potential return.

If Wayne Gretzky can be traded, then nobody is truly untouchable, but for the sake of argument, I think it's fair / realistic to consider a few players from your team off-limits.

So far, I've seen many posters overvaluing Rangers players and prospects. Now, I love most of our homegrown players as much as the next guy, but the term "untouchable" or untradeable loses its meaning and its value if you label half your roster as untouchable. It's simply unrealistic.

Let's not forget that just because a player isnt untouchable doesn't mean that he's a garbage player like Dale Purinton or Ryan Hollweg. It simply means that there are other players around the league who might be worth trading said player for.

Here's how it's going to work:

You can label 5 forwards as untouchable.
You can label 3 defensemen untouchable.

(the difference is of course because there are more forwards than defensemen on a roster)

This includes roster players AND prospects.
It's also worth noting that we're already excluding the MOST untouchable Ranger, Henrik Lundqvist.

I'll start.

UNTOUCHABLE FORWARDS:

Brad Richards
Chris Kreider
Ryan Callahan
Derek Stepan
Carl Hagelin

UNTOUCHABLE DEFENSEMEN:

Marc Staal
Ryan McDonagh
Dan Girardi


Some may argue about Hagelin, but his speed is so elite that I think if he continues to improve the other areas of his game each year, he's got the potential to be a real star in the NHL. The sky is the limit. Many will disagree, but that's how I feel.

Now this means that Gaborik, Dubinsky, Anisimov, Boyle, Prust, Miller, Fast, Thomas, Zuccarello, Del Zotto, Erixon (however unlikely considering the circumstances that brought him to NY), Sauer (if healthy), McIlrath are all potentially tradeable FOR THE RIGHT RETURN. Please comprehend the difference between this and wanting to get rid of a player.


Since I have a feeling many of these lists will be similar, feel free to make them for other teams as well, using the same structure; 5 forwards, 3 defensemen.

ie:

Philadelphia Flyers:

UNTOUCHABLE FORWARDS:

Claude Giroux
Jakub Voracek
Sean Couturier
Scott Hartnell
Brayden Schenn

UNTOUCHABLE DEFENSEMEN:

Chris Pronger (assuming he's not finished)
Andrej Meszaros
Braydon Coburn

Dactyl 05-30-2012 08:32 PM

boyle and prust for simmonds

Khris Creider 05-30-2012 09:24 PM

UNTOUCHABLE FORWARDS:
Chris Kreider
Ryan Callahan
Brad Richards
Carl Hagelin
Derek Stepan

UNTOUCHABLE DEFENSEMEN:
Ryan McDonagh
Marc Staal
Dan Girardi

Zuccarello Awesome* 05-30-2012 09:37 PM

I'm starting to think I should've made it only 3-4 forwards.

If you had to choose between only keeping 3 out of Richards, Kreider, Cally, Stepan, Hagelin, who would you keep?

Richards, Kreider, Callahan?

trueblue9441 05-30-2012 09:45 PM

Forwards: Stepan, Kreider, Callahan, Richards, Gaborik.

I don't get rid of Gabby because you need a bonafide finisher. He didn't produce in the playoffs, but you still need someone to put in 35 and right now, he's the only one who can do that consistently.

D-Men: Staal, Mac Truck, Del Zotto.

I take dizzy because I think he's made strides in his own end and has that offensive touch the others in the group do not. you can get a good return for girardi..

plus i wanted to change it up so we actually have something to debate haha

NYRSchrute217 05-30-2012 09:54 PM

The only untouchable players on this team are Lundqvist and McDonagh. I don't want to trade Gaborik, Richards, Kreider Callahan or Staal because they're key to this team's success. Stepan and Del Zotto would take a massive return to trade. Hagelin is not untouchable, and I just have a feeling Girardi is the odd man out on the blueline down the road, if the organization feels McIlrath is that good. Not that I necessarily agree with it, however.

Zuccarello Awesome* 05-30-2012 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trueblue9441 (Post 50336095)
Forwards: Stepan, Kreider, Callahan, Richards, Gaborik.

I don't get rid of Gabby because you need a bonafide finisher. He didn't produce in the playoffs, but you still need someone to put in 35 and right now, he's the only one who can do that consistently.

D-Men: Staal, Mac Truck, Del Zotto.

I take dizzy because I think he's made strides in his own end and has that offensive touch the others in the group do not. you can get a good return for girardi..

plus i wanted to change it up so we actually have something to debate haha

Im fine with that hehe.

I just disagree with "we still need someone to put in 35+."

I'd rather have 5 twenty-goal scorers than 3 twenty goal scorers and a 40 goal scorer of that 40 goal scorer is a guy like Gaborik who is so much less effective and less of a threat in tight playoff games.

The Stanley Cup champion Bruins didn't have a guy score over 30 goals last season. They had a lot of 20+ goal scorers, four lines that all contributed on different nights, and defense and goaltending that are very similar to the Rangers current situation.

I do think we need more PRIMARY scoring that we can rely on in the playoffs, rather than simply adding secondary scoring like David Jones and thinking were going to see a different result than the team who struggled to score more than 2 goals.

nevesis 05-30-2012 10:13 PM

Stepan? Untouchable? You people are ****ing nuts. He is absolutely not untouchable. Kreider yes, Stepan, no.

broadwayblue 05-30-2012 10:13 PM

Yeah, we need another 25 goal guy for sure...but I don't think we need to move the assets and/or cap space needed to land a 35+ guy.

SupersonicMonkey* 05-30-2012 10:13 PM

Richards
Callahan
Kreider
Stepan

McDonagh
Girardi
Staal

Lundqvist

SupersonicMonkey* 05-30-2012 10:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevesis (Post 50337839)
Stepan? Untouchable? You people are ****ing nuts. He is absolutely not untouchable. Kreider yes, Stepan, no.

Rangers disagree with you.

KreiMeARiver* 05-30-2012 10:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevesis (Post 50337839)
Stepan? Untouchable? You people are ****ing nuts. He is absolutely not untouchable. Kreider yes, Stepan, no.

haha I totally agree, man..

The thread is called "untouchable"....

If for some reason we could get Nash for Stepan, Dubinsky, and a first... I'm doing it.

ImIdaho 05-30-2012 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey (Post 50338219)
Rangers disagree with you.

And I disagree with him.

Stepan has been in the league for only two seasons. I still think he'll be a comfortable, consistent 60 pt player.

Greg02 05-30-2012 10:21 PM

Forwards:
Richards
Callahan
Kreider (For now)

Defensemen:
McDonagh
Girardi

Zuccarello Awesome* 05-30-2012 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevesis (Post 50337839)
Stepan? Untouchable? You people are ****ing nuts. He is absolutely not untouchable. Kreider yes, Stepan, no.

Please elaborate.

And use realistic claims, because if we're being technical, Kreider is not untouchable either. I'm quite certain everyone here would trade Kreider for Stamkos.

We're talking "untouchable" as in players who won't even be considered in trade talks this offseason. As we know Stamkos isn't going to be offered by Tampa, we don't have to worry about moving Kreider for him or other similar young superstars. The same logic dictates that McDonagh is untouchable.

I think Stepan falls into this same category as the available stars this offseason aren't at the level that would make me justify moving Stepan.

Stepan for Ryan is a lateral move. Ryan's a better goal scorer, and is bigger, but Stepan is a much better playmaker, and younger and cheaper.

Stepan for Nash is the same issue, and Nash makes 7 times what Step does while Stepan's production may be at the same point level in a year or so.

So, why do you think Stepan shouldn't be in the same category as Kreider and McDonagh, even if he's not as sexy/flashy as they are? His vision and IQ go a long way, IMO.

KreiMeARiver* 05-30-2012 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zuccarello Awesome (Post 50338971)
Please elaborate.

And use realistic claims, because if we're being technical, Kreider is not untouchable either. I'm quite certain everyone here would trade Kreider for Stamkos.

We're talking "untouchable" as in players who won't even be considered in trade talks this offseason. As we know Stamkos isn't going to be offered by Tampa, we don't have to worry about moving Kreider for him or other similar young superstars. The same logic dictates that McDonagh is untouchable.

I think Stepan falls into this same category as the available stars this offseason aren't at the level that would make me justify moving Stepan.

Stepan for Ryan is a lateral move. Ryan's a better goal scorer, and is bigger, but Stepan is a much better playmaker, and younger and cheaper.

Stepan for Nash is the same issue, and Nash makes 7 times what Step does while Stepan's production may be at the same point level in a year or so.

So, why do you think Stepan shouldn't be in the same category as Kreider and McDonagh, even if he's not as sexy/flashy as they are? His vision and IQ go a long way, IMO.


hahahahaha yeah noooooooo

trueblue9441 05-30-2012 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nevesis (Post 50337839)
Stepan? Untouchable? You people are ****ing nuts. He is absolutely not untouchable. Kreider yes, Stepan, no.

ok so what other forward on the current roster would you take

Zuccarello Awesome* 05-30-2012 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hightide85 (Post 50338643)
haha I totally agree, man..

The thread is called "untouchable"....

If for some reason we could get Nash for Stepan, Dubinsky, and a first... I'm doing it.

I gotta admit, I thought about it, but I wouldn't do it. Stepan is going to be a special player. He has that "it" factor that Derek Jeter has. I see him being extremely clutch. He has ice in his veins. Reminds me of Richards in many ways.

I'd deal DZ with Dubi and picks/prospect for Nash, but Stepan is already producing at 10 points less than Nash's average point total. Not worth it for ~10 extra points, even if most of them are goals, especially at 7 times more money than Stepan makes.

n8 05-30-2012 10:35 PM

Untouchable
Lundqvist, Callahan

Are we getting Malkin?
Staal, Girardi, McD, Kreider

Better be making a big upgrade Slats
Stepan, Hagelin, MDZ

Zuccarello Awesome* 05-30-2012 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n8 (Post 50339809)
Untouchable
Lundqvist, Callahan

Are we getting Malkin?
Staal, Girardi, McD, Kreider

Better be making a big upgrade Slats
Stepan, Hagelin, MDZ

Hahah I love the categories!

ImIdaho 05-30-2012 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by n8 (Post 50339809)
Are we getting Malkin?

If Malkin is actually in play, then these teams ceases to have untouchables.

broadwayblue 05-30-2012 10:38 PM

Yeah, other than Hank nobody on this team is untouchable for the right return. Who here wouldn't trade McDonagh for Stamkos or Kreider for Malkin?

trueblue9441 05-30-2012 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadwayblue (Post 50339999)
Yeah, other than Hank nobody on this team is untouchable for the right return. Who here wouldn't trade McDonagh for Stamkos or Kreider for Malkin?

but lets be real because you know those guys arent getting traded. thats the whole point of the discussion.

Zuccarello Awesome* 05-30-2012 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by broadwayblue (Post 50339999)
Yeah, other than Hank nobody on this team is untouchable for the right return. Who here wouldn't trade McDonagh for Stamkos or Kreider for Malkin?

Then Lundqvist isn't untouchable either, though.

Lundqvist, Dubinsky, and Gaborik (for salary purposes) for Quick, Kopitar, Richards, Brown, Doughty.

White Plains Batman 05-30-2012 10:40 PM

Untouchables: Henrik, Callahan, Girardi, McD, Staal, Richards, Krieder

Not untouchable but over 90% chance these guys don't get moved; Stepan, Del Zotto, Hagelin, Fast, Miller, McLIrath, Fogarty, St. Croix

Could be moved but not really likely; Anisimov, Dubinsky, Erixon, St. Croix, Yogan, Thomas

Franchise Players; Redden and Bickell :laugh:


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