HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Colorado Avalanche (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=35)
-   -   2012-13 Colorado Avalanche Prospects Thread (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1200779)

Frenchy 06-02-2012 05:42 PM

2012-13 Colorado Avalanche Prospects Thread
 
Please continue the pospects talk here , since the old Thread was getting to 1000 posts

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...d.php?t=965801

R S 06-02-2012 10:34 PM

Still pissed that Rutkowski wasn't signed. Yeah, he won't be an offensive guy at the next level, but he will make a good depth D that organizations need for depth.

What's the point of drafting all of these D if you don't have the room for them in the system??

Bender 06-02-2012 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings (Post 50447685)
Still pissed that Rutkowski wasn't signed. Yeah, he won't be an offensive guy at the next level, but he will make a good depth D that organizations need for depth.

What's the point of drafting all of these D if you don't have the room for them in the system??

Is it possible that they just evaluated Rutkowski and Silas and came to the conclusion that they just better cut ties at this point rather than sign them both to 3 year contracts like they did with Cann?? It was pretty obvious early on during his term that Cann wasn't going to be the answer in net...hell, he wasn't even an adequate answer in the AHL.

Lonewolfe2015 06-02-2012 10:54 PM

You don't build winning teams without depth players. But our organization seems to forget that from time to time.

Boychuk, Hendricks, Guite, McCormick, Dupuis... just names off the top of my head we gave up on way too easily.

chet1926 06-02-2012 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 (Post 50448785)
You don't build winning teams without depth players. But our organization seems to forget that from time to time.

Boychuk, Hendricks, Guite, McCormick, Dupuis... just names off the top of my head we gave up on way too easily.

The only one I'll give you on that list that maybe we gave up too easily was Boychuk. But even then it took him getting paired with Chara before he made a name for himself.

Hendricks was demanding more than he was worth, McCormick was replaced by McCleod who was better, Guite was fine with us but after he left he was not very good and was out of the league pretty quickly, Dupuis I questioned getting rid of at first but he was sent to the minors for Toronto last year so obviously he struggled.

The Avs have done a pretty good job of keeping the right role players and getting rid of the wrong ones, so I'm not really going rag on them for that.

Inevitably if we lose McClement this offseason people on here will throw a hissy fit, but I'm not going to be too shocked to see him gone. Sometimes fans have to realize that our organization might not be able to offer what the player wants. McClement probably wants a guaranteed top 3 center role, which honestly he deserves, but with Stastny, Duchene, and O'Reilly we would never be able to offer that. Another team may approach him and his agent and say we will make you our 3rd line center from day 1, and if that is what McClement wants he'll take it. There is even the possibility that we offer more money but tell him you are going to be our 4th line center and he might sign with the other just because the guarantee of 3rd line center.

I guess the point is you never know the inner workings of a team and its negotiations with players. So its tough to judge a team by how it handles its "role" player/bottom 6 signings and not signings. Its simple to handle the top 6/star players, but getting the right role players is tough so I'll never judge our team by those signings because I have no clue what negotiations went on and with whom.

Bender 06-02-2012 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 (Post 50448785)
You don't build winning teams without depth players. But our organization seems to forget that from time to time.

Boychuk, Hendricks, Guite, McCormick, Dupuis... just names off the top of my head we gave up on way too easily.

EVERY organization has a list like that.

That's why we've poached guys like Skrastins, deVries, Clark :whatever:, Wilson, Winnik, etc... over the years too from other teams that gave up on them too easily.

Huis Clos* 06-02-2012 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 (Post 50448785)
You don't build winning teams without depth players. But our organization seems to forget that from time to time.

Boychuk, Hendricks, Guite, McCormick, Dupuis... just names off the top of my head we gave up on way too easily.

Your point being? Do you believe the team would be in any better position with some if those guys on the team?

R S 06-02-2012 11:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chet1926 (Post 50449533)
The only one I'll give you on that list that maybe we gave up too easily was Boychuk. But even then it took him getting paired with Chara before he made a name for himself.

Hendricks was demanding more than he was worth
, McCormick was replaced by McCleod who was better, Guite was fine with us but after he left he was not very good and was out of the league pretty quickly, Dupuis I questioned getting rid of at first but he was sent to the minors for Toronto last year so obviously he struggled.

The Avs have done a pretty good job of keeping the right role players and getting rid of the wrong ones, so I'm not really going rag on them for that.

Inevitably if we lose McClement this offseason people on here will throw a hissy fit, but I'm not going to be too shocked to see him gone. Sometimes fans have to realize that our organization might not be able to offer what the player wants. McClement probably wants a guaranteed top 3 center role, which honestly he deserves, but with Stastny, Duchene, and O'Reilly we would never be able to offer that. Another team may approach him and his agent and say we will make you our 3rd line center from day 1, and if that is what McClement wants he'll take it. There is even the possibility that we offer more money but tell him you are going to be our 4th line center and he might sign with the other just because the guarantee of 3rd line center.

I guess the point is you never know the inner workings of a team and its negotiations with players. So its tough to judge a team by how it handles its "role" player/bottom 6 signings and not signings. Its simple to handle the top 6/star players, but getting the right role players is tough so I'll never judge our team by those signings because I have no clue what negotiations went on and with whom.

I would give him 850,000 a year easy, and I'm sure that's what most teams would be willing to pay him too. That's what he's making on his current deal.

It's not like he wanted even a million.

R S 06-02-2012 11:35 PM

Who knows, maybe there is more to the story with Rutkowski.

Maybe he saw the glut of D we have coming up and didn't want to sign here. This way, he goes back to the draft and maybe gets picked. He likely will. That team will then have control over him for one more year and the ball is in his court.

cyberfan 06-03-2012 01:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bender (Post 50448439)
Is it possible that they just evaluated Rutkowski and Silas and came to the conclusion that they just better cut ties at this point rather than sign them both to 3 year contracts like they did with Cann?? It was pretty obvious early on during his term that Cann wasn't going to be the answer in net...hell, he wasn't even an adequate answer in the AHL.

It could also be that the Avs have a plan this summer for these last few contracts that are still empty and they realized, after evaluation of Rutkowski and Silas, their new contracts would just get in the way of that plan.

Huis Clos* 06-03-2012 01:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings (Post 50450311)
Who knows, maybe there is more to the story with Rutkowski.

.

Or maybe the Avs' front office simply rates his potential much lower than the many (amateur) scouts on this board.

Bender 06-03-2012 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings (Post 50450273)
I would give him 850,000 a year easy, and I'm sure that's what most teams would be willing to pay him too. That's what he's making on his current deal.

It's not like he wanted even a million.

I can also see it from the Avs point of view as well.

- we traded for you and gave you a chance when no one else would while you were toiling in the AHL at 28 years old
- you should be happy with a 1-way contract at the minimum when you compare where you were before
- while you did well in the 56 games you played for us this season, we have no other frame of reference for a consistent performance analysis at this level to give you term on a deal

Face it, the Capitals took a bit of a risk in signing this guy and it worked out extremely well for them. Just like it could have come back and bit them in the ass. I'm quite certain the Avs now regret their decision to let him go but I understand the reasoning behind not signing a player to that kind of deal under those circumstances.

Foppa2118 06-03-2012 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings (Post 50450273)
I would give him 850,000 a year easy, and I'm sure that's what most teams would be willing to pay him too. That's what he's making on his current deal.

It's not like he wanted even a million.

I think the sticking point was that he wanted a one way deal if I remember correctly.

Should have been a no brainer IMO to give him one. He was clearly an established and important NHL role player.

Like I've been saying in another thread though, the Avs just offer the bare minimum to their 3rd and 4th liners, and like the flexibility of two way contracts until the 4th line guys are basically UFA's.

Bender 06-03-2012 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Foppa2118 (Post 50462403)
I think the sticking point was that he wanted a one way deal if I remember correctly.

Should have been a no brainer IMO to give him one. He was clearly an established and important NHL role player.

Like I've been saying in another thread though, the Avs just offer the bare minimum to their 3rd and 4th liners, and like the flexibility of two way contracts until the 4th line guys are basically UFA's.

So was Jeff Finger then, by that reasoning.

I don't think a grand total of 60 NHL games over 2 years (4 game call-up and then 56 GP the next year) says that he's a clearly established NHL role player. The Avs have had a revolving door of those kinds of players and they've come and gone without sticking with another club. Hendricks being the exception. Guite and Dupuis played the same role and did it well enough to get shots with other teams but they didn't last long. This time, it came out on the positive end for the player in question and on the negative end for the Avs but they have a pretty good track record with these kinds of decisions in my opinion.

Foppa2118 06-03-2012 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bender (Post 50465711)
So was Jeff Finger then, by that reasoning.

I don't think a grand total of 60 NHL games over 2 years (4 game call-up and then 56 GP the next year) says that he's a clearly established NHL role player. The Avs have had a revolving door of those kinds of players and they've come and gone without sticking with another club. Hendricks being the exception. Guite and Dupuis played the same role and did it well enough to get shots with other teams but they didn't last long. This time, it came out on the positive end for the player in question and on the negative end for the Avs but they have a pretty good track record with these kinds of decisions in my opinion.

Those are two completely different situations. No one went crazy and offered Hendricks $3.5 M. Finger is an NHL player too. He's a lot like Wilson, he's a bottom pairing D that should not be played any higher. If someone offered Wilson $3.5 M he'd be buried down in the AHL pretty quick too.

I think anyone that watched Hendricks play, would have seen he was gonna stick in the NHL and be an effective role player. If they were willing to give Per Ledin a one way they should have given Hendricks, but they seem very principled and cheap when it comes to 3rd and 4th line free agents. If they ask for anything more than the small offer the Avs give them, they're shown the door.

Duchene2MacKinnon 06-04-2012 12:11 AM

After all the pissing and moaing looks like the avs signed both Cialis and Rutwhatever, according to Jori's twitter. Not that I think they'll amount anything but you never know.


AVS PROSPECTS POST: Prospect Signing Tracker (updated): Added: Rutkowski, Silas CHL (June 1, 2012) Troy Rutkowsk.

http://www.coloradoavalancheprospect...medium=twitter

BOC my man read it carefully.;)

BoxOfChocolates 06-04-2012 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronaldo (Post 50483981)
After all the pissing and moaing looks like the avs signed both Cialis and Rutwhatever, according to Jori's twitter. Not that I think they'll amount anything but you never know.


AVS PROSPECTS POST: Prospect Signing Tracker (updated): Added: Rutkowski, Silas CHL (June 1, 2012) Troy Rutkowsk.

http://www.coloradoavalancheprospect...medium=twitter


CHL (June 1, 2012)

Troy Rutkowski, Portland (WHL) -- rights relinquished on 06/01/12

Stephen Silas, Belleville (OHL) -- rights relinquished on 06/01/12

CB Joe 06-04-2012 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ronaldo (Post 50483981)
After all the pissing and moaing looks like the avs signed both Cialis and Rutwhatever, according to Jori's twitter. Not that I think they'll amount anything but you never know.


AVS PROSPECTS POST: Prospect Signing Tracker (updated): Added: Rutkowski, Silas CHL (June 1, 2012) Troy Rutkowsk.

http://www.coloradoavalancheprospect...medium=twitter

BOC my man read it carefully.;)

Looks like they didn't sign either of Silas or Rutkowski according to that link.

SoundwaveIsCharisma 06-04-2012 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CB Joe (Post 50486781)
Looks like they didn't sign either of Silas or Rutkowski according to that link.

Yea, it looks like Jori added them in the sense that she updated their status to "no longer with the club" essentially.

Qurpiz 06-04-2012 08:00 AM

Aittokallio started his military service today, due to be discharged early January.
http://www.hs.fi/urheilu/Armia+ja+Ma...a1305572719901

For those of you unfamiliar with Finnish military service, it's compulsory for all males over 18, usually you start it at around 19-20. Can last 180, 270 or if you really get screwed over like yours truly, 362 days. In Aittokallios case, it's going to be 180, no question, and he most likely won't have to spend even 80 of those days in Lahti, where his service is taking place. He's considered a professional athlete, and pro athletes get a lot of leeway to ensure the service isn't complicating their training. He most likely won't miss any games, and very few practices because of the army.

Foppa2118 06-04-2012 01:55 PM

Four days in, and still no mention of whether Rutkowski was signed or not by the only reporter covering the Avs. I swear to god he puts in about 10% effort into finding out what the fans want to know about, and actually digging up the info.

That's what is supposed to separate an actual reporter from an opinionated internet poster like the rest of us. They are supposed to spend their time talking to everyone they can to dig up facts and pass them along to the public.

He can't hide behind the Avs secretive nature all the time. He should have developed some connections with the NHL to be able to check for sure if they were signed. Which at this point seems very unlikely.

Duchene2MacKinnon 06-04-2012 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoundwaveIsCharisma (Post 50487419)
Yea, it looks like Jori added them in the sense that she updated their status to "no longer with the club" essentially.

On her site it says prospect signing tracker update(as in updated from the "relinquishment" of Cialis and Rut) to added. Reading her twitter it looks like the avs did infact sign both prospects.

Avs_19 06-04-2012 02:48 PM

Nigel Williams......TJ Hensick......Colby Cohen.......Troy Rutkowski.

Avs giving up on another player the fans wanted them to keep. This one will probably come back to bite the Avs in the ass just like the other three did. :sarcasm:

Ivan13 06-04-2012 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Avs_19 (Post 50502263)
Nigel Williams......TJ Hensick......Colby Cohen.......Troy Rutkowski.

Avs giving up on another player the fans wanted them to keep. This one will probably come back to bite the Avs in the ass just like the other three did. :sarcasm:

There're some major differences between Rutkowski and those guys.

Duchene2MacKinnon 06-04-2012 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivan13 (Post 50502995)
There're some major differences between Rutkowski and those guys.

Yeah, he's new therefore he will be an NHL'er.:laugh:


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:36 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.