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-   -   Olympics: 2014 - Canada Roster Discussion (Part III) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1203131)

Systemfel 06-06-2012 10:51 AM

2014 - Canada Roster Discussion (Part III)
 
Old thread got too big, continue here...

Mehar 06-07-2012 01:50 PM

Let me be the first one to break the ice. As of right now, I still like my list of 13 forwards which I mentioned before:

Eric Staal Crosby Stamkos

Perry Getzlaf Skinner

Nash Tavares Giroux

Sharp Toews Mike Richards

T. Seguin

If Eberle, Kane and Taylor Hall all have great years next year, they would be on my radar as well. Many people do not want Perry to be on the team, but people forget that this guy just last year lead the NHL in goals. Nash and Getzlaf played great hockey in 2010 Olympics, and one off year should not disqualify them. Put Nash on any other team besides Columbus, and his stats would be much better. Getzlaf's bad penalty cost Canada this year, but it also meant a ticket to the easiest pool of the three pools in Sochi, so Getzlaf's penalty was a blessing in disguise. I am comfortable with this group right now. Let us see how next year plays out.

UsernameWasTaken 06-07-2012 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mehar (Post 50631029)
Let me be the first one to break the ice. As of right now, I still like my list of 13 forwards which I mentioned before:

Eric Staal Crosby Stamkos

Perry Getzlaf Skinner

Nash Tavares Giroux

Sharp Toews Mike Richards

T. Seguin

If Eberle, Kane and Taylor Hall all have great years next year, they would be on my radar as well. Many people want Perry not to be on the team, but this guy just last year lead the NHL in goals. Nash and Getzlaf played great hockey in 2010 Olympics, and one off year should not disqualify them. Put Nash on any other team besides Columbus, and his stats would be much better. Getzlaf's bad penalty cost Canada this year, but it also meant a ticket to the easiest pool of the three pools in Sochi, so Getzlaf's penalty was a blessing in disguise. I am comfortable with this group right now. Let us see how next year plays out.

I don't see Skinner or Sharp making the team before Eberle. I actually consider Eberle to be pretty much a lock for the team (unless he tanks all of next year and the first half of 2013).

I'm copying below the lineup that Frankthetank posted in the previous thread:

Quote:

Stamkos-Crosby-Giroux
Staal-Tavares-Eberle
Richards-Toews-Nash
Benn-Getzlaf-Perry

Doughty-Weber
Letang-Pietrangelo
Keith-Seabrook

Price
Luongo
I mostly agree with the content (as far as the particular lines go, it's way premature to commit to anything)...but a couple of things. Firstly, I get the sense that Yzerman really likes RNH. If he's back as GM and RNH plays well the next season and a half, I think there's strong possibility that he makes the team...he took along Doughty in 2010, so it's not as if he's opposed to really young players.

I see Getzlaf, Richards, and Benn as "bubble players"...it really depends on how they play over the next year.

Reviving my comment from the last thread for further discussion, I don't see Hall making team unless he totally lights it up next year.

Additional point of discussion - could Ryan Murray make it? Doughty made it with the same NHL experience that Murray will have come 2014, no? Obviously, it's premature when Murray hasn't been drafted let alone played in the NHL...but just some food for thought.

OttawaRoughRiderFan 06-07-2012 11:52 PM

In the history of Canadian hockey, have our forwards EVER been this talented and deep? Ever???

Mehar 06-08-2012 12:03 AM

In response to UsernameWasTaken, I do not see Ryan Murray making it in 2014. Richards played great hockey in 2010, and makes my team as of right now, because he serves a role on the team. Richards-Toews-Nash line was a great line for Canada, helping them to win Gold. We differ on Jamie Benn and Ryan Nugent Hopkins. I was not overly impressed with them at this year's WHC. RNH just finished his first year, is still 19, and there are others I would put ahead of him right now. I picked Skinner because he really impressed me playing on the big ice, and was at times Canada's best player at WHC. I also loved the way he played with Carolina the times I saw him. I am a big Patrick Sharp fan, and feel he is a very underrated player. He is a flexible player who can do it all, and has played good hockey on the big ice for Canada. He would be on my 4th line. I agree with Eberle. Actually, Eberle is my 14th forward, and i went back and forth, but put Sharp on my team ahead of him. Things could change by next year.

UsernameWasTaken 06-08-2012 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mehar (Post 50652327)
In response to UsernameWasTaken, I do not see Ryan Murray making it in 2014. Richards played great hockey in 2010, and makes my team as of right now, because he serves a role on the team. Richards-Toews-Nash line was a great line for Canada, helping them to win Gold. We differ on Jamie Benn and Ryan Nugent Hopkins. I was not overly impressed with them at this year's WHC. RNH just finished his first year, is still 19, and there are others I would put ahead of him right now. I picked Skinner because he really impressed me playing on the big ice, and was at times Canada's best player at WHC. I also loved the way he played with Carolina the times I saw him. I am a big Patrick Sharp fan, and feel he is a very underrated player. He is a flexible player who can do it all, and has played good hockey on the big ice for Canada. He would be on my 4th line. I agree with Eberle. Actually, Eberle is my 14th forward, and i went back and forth, but put Sharp on my team ahead of him. Things could change by next year.

My team is the Hawks, so it's not like I have a problem with Sharp - it's just I don't see him making the team.

Re: Eberle - I think he'll do better than 14th forward...I see him playing a solid role on the team. I think he's a legitimate offensive contributor and if he keeps it up next year I think he will be put in a productive role for the team.

Re: Richards...he might very well make it - and I wouldn't be upset he did. But I see him and Getzlaf as playing similar functions (Richards has more experience, Getzlaf has better size) .

As far as RNH, Skinner, etc. goes...we can debate about them now...but for 2014 we can add a year and a half to everyone's age and experience. The reality is, I doubt a decision will be made about any of the guys in that age/experience group until late fall 2013 (i.e. close to when the team is chosen)...I think 2012/13 year (and the 2013 part of 2013/14 will really dictate who goes).

Re: Murray - I'm also very doubtful he has any chance of making it (and again, it's silly to spitball the chances of someone who hasn't been drafted, let alone played a game in the NHL)...but b/c of Doughty in 2010 Murray's someone who shouldn't be completely written off.

Steveorama 06-08-2012 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KevyD (Post 50652083)
In the history of Canadian hockey, have our forwards EVER been this talented and deep? Ever???

Well, in 1976, Team Canada had 3 hall of famers on its 4th line (Dionne, Sittler, McDonald).

Mehar 06-08-2012 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken (Post 50653895)
My team is the Hawks, so it's not like I have a problem with Sharp - it's just I don't see him making the team.

Re: Eberle - I think he'll do better than 14th forward...I see him playing a solid role on the team. I think he's a legitimate offensive contributor and if he keeps it up next year I think he will be put in a productive role for the team.

Re: Richards...he might very well make it - and I wouldn't be upset he did. But I see him and Getzlaf as playing similar functions (Richards has more experience, Getzlaf has better size) .

As far as RNH, Skinner, etc. goes...we can debate about them now...but for 2014 we can add a year and a half to everyone's age and experience. The reality is, I doubt a decision will be made about any of the guys in that age/experience group until late fall 2013 (i.e. close to when the team is chosen)...I think 2012/13 year (and the 2013 part of 2013/14 will really dictate who goes).

Re: Murray - I'm also very doubtful he has any chance of making it (and again, it's silly to spitball the chances of someone who hasn't been drafted, let alone played a game in the NHL)...but b/c of Doughty in 2010 Murray's someone who shouldn't be completely written off.

I agree with that. My selections were based on right now, but by the Fall of 2013, guys like Sharp and Richards might be surpassed by younger guys. Time will tell. Sharp was close to making the team last time. I just like what he brings to the table, and feel he is one of the most underrated guys in the league. The guy can play different positions, take on different roles- killing penalties on the 4th line, playing on the top two lines, playing wing or centre, and is an intelligent player who has demonstrated good chemistry with a guy like Toews, who will definetly be there in 2014. Sharp has been a good player for Canada on the big ice whenver he has played for them. Yzerman also commented about 4-5 months back how he loves Patrick Sharp's game, and how he is a very underrated player who is on his radar for Sochi 2014 along with guys like Eberle. The forwards will be good, but hopefully the goaltending will be good by 2014 as well.

habsrule4eva3089 06-08-2012 05:02 PM

On the back end we have Keith, Weber, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, Letang. For the remaining dmen who do you guys think is a better option. A freewheeling dman who can bring offense to the attack ala Subban, Boyle. Or since there isn't an abundance of left handed shots a depth guy who would play against the bottom lines each game and perhaps a player who can tee up a one timer on the pp ala Phaneuf. There's still the development of Ryan Murray which could play into the equation, but there's a pool of about 5-7 guys who are in the running for those 2 or 3 spots. It also depends on whether the management decides to take 7 dmen or 8. We have a history of only taking 7, but the problem this time around will be most of those will right handed shots and a good team can expose that so might have to take an extra lefty, who knows.

UsernameWasTaken 06-09-2012 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by habsrule4eva3089 (Post 50674839)
On the back end we have Keith, Weber, Doughty, Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, Letang. For the remaining dmen who do you guys think is a better option. A freewheeling dman who can bring offense to the attack ala Subban, Boyle. Or since there isn't an abundance of left handed shots a depth guy who would play against the bottom lines each game and perhaps a player who can tee up a one timer on the pp ala Phaneuf. There's still the development of Ryan Murray which could play into the equation, but there's a pool of about 5-7 guys who are in the running for those 2 or 3 spots. It also depends on whether the management decides to take 7 dmen or 8. We have a history of only taking 7, but the problem this time around will be most of those will right handed shots and a good team can expose that so might have to take an extra lefty, who knows.

...and Seabrook. I think Seabrook is quite likely to make the team - and probably before Pietrangelo, Bouwmeester, or Letang...and he's currently playing better than Keith.

The other person who cannot be forgotten (although I wish he was) is Dion Phaneuf. I will never voluntarily add him to my own list...but you never know. :shakehead

Re: Murray...I agree he isn't someone who should be written off right now. If he made the team, he would make it with the same level of experience that Doughty had when he made it. The one rub is I'm not convinced at Murray has Doughty's level of eliteness at the same point...but time will tell.

I have to say, I'm worried about our chances...and the degree to which the US has spread skill out at all levels. I am worried about some hellish scenario where we score 20 goals a game but let in 21. :facepalm:

DyerMaker66 06-10-2012 04:03 AM

Left Wing | Centre | Right Wing

Neal | Crosby | Giroux
Tavares | Stamkos | Eberle
Sharp | Toews | Perry
Kane | Bergeron | Seguin

Bench: Hall

Left Defence | Right Defence | Goalies
Weber | Letang | Price
Seabrook | Doughty | Fleury
Staal | Piertangelo | Ward

Bench: Del Zotto

Tried going with forwards who play together this time around.

Aquin001 on Ice 06-10-2012 12:01 PM

Stamkos - Crosby - Nash
Perry - Getzlaf - Giroux
Skinner - Tavares - Spezza
E. Staal - Toews - Mike Richards
HM: Eberle

Weber - Doughty
Pietrangelo - Letang
Seabrook - Keith
HM: Staal

Price
Ward
Luongo (likely starter).

DyerMaker66 06-10-2012 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquin001 on Ice (Post 50728849)
Stamkos - Crosby - Nash
Perry - Getzlaf - Giroux
Skinner - Tavares - Spezza
E. Staal - Toews - Mike Richards
HM: Eberle

Weber - Doughty
Pietrangelo - Letang
Seabrook - Keith
HM: Staal

Price
Ward
Luongo (likely starter).

I hope to God you aren't serious.

Aquin001 on Ice 06-10-2012 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DyerMaker66 (Post 50730217)
I hope to God you aren't serious.

That he'll probably start or that he's 3rd on the list? I believe Team Canada will start him because they usually reward their experienced goaltenders as opposed to first-timers (i.e Broduer 2010). Not what I think they should do, but what I think will happen.

Systemfel 06-10-2012 01:06 PM

I'd play Giroux with Stamkos. Setup man with shooter.

DyerMaker66 06-10-2012 01:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquin001 on Ice (Post 50730803)
That he'll probably start or that he's 3rd on the list? I believe Team Canada will start him because they usually reward their experienced goaltenders as opposed to first-timers (i.e Broduer 2010). Not what I think they should do, but what I think will happen.

Both, but specially him being the starter. If anyone other than Price is the starter then Stevie Y and his coaching crew need to be lynched "naow!"

Mehar 06-10-2012 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquin001 on Ice (Post 50728849)
Stamkos - Crosby - Nash
Perry - Getzlaf - Giroux
Skinner - Tavares - Spezza
E. Staal - Toews - Mike Richards
HM: Eberle

Weber - Doughty
Pietrangelo - Letang
Seabrook - Keith
HM: Staal

Price
Ward
Luongo (likely starter).

I actually have the same roster, except that I do not have Spezza on my team. Spezza will not be there in 2014. He was not there the last time, and Canada even refused to have him on the WHC roster this year even after Spezza called them up wanting to play. Hockey Canada is not a fan of him. They refused to initially invite him for the 2009 summer invitiation camp for the 2010 Olympics, and Spezza was mad when he found out of the snub. Eventually, he was there because others got injured. Also, for my 13th forward, I have Seguin instead of Eberle, and Sharp over Eberle, which is not a big deal, since I would be happy with either Eberle or Sharp on the 4th line.

UsernameWasTaken 06-12-2012 12:48 AM

Does anyone have a specific origin re: why Hockey Canada apparently has a problem with Spezza? It seems that this is the case. Is this just paranoia...or is there something behind it?

Macman 06-12-2012 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UsernameWasTaken (Post 50811897)
Does anyone have a specific origin re: why Hockey Canada apparently has a problem with Spezza? It seems that this is the case. Is this just paranoia...or is there something behind it?

I don't know about Hockey Canada, but I don't see him as a big-game player. He never seems to raise his play when it counts. He's played in three world juniors and three world championships and has yet to win gold. There are 13 better forwards to take to the Olympics than him.

therealdeal 06-12-2012 12:59 PM

The biggest concern will of course be goaltending. Out of all the big 7-8 nations, we have the worst goaltending. Frankly, Luongo is our best bet at this point, which can be scary, but he can certainly be good enough. Ward has not inspired confidence in a long time. Fleury, well he could play great and he could play terrible. Price, he actually could be our best option. If he can get some confidence and some big game experience then I'd be happy. I'd actually take two steady goaltenders and then whoever is playing hottest at the time. I don't care who he is, he only has to be good for 5-6 games.

Defense looks great. Keith actually remembered how to play hockey in the WHC. Then you have Doughty, Seabrook, Petro, Weber, Letang, Staal, Hamhuis, Myers, Boyle if you want some veteran, etc. Shouldn't be difficult to pick 7.

Forwards are easy as well. Hope that you're picking healthy players. More than enough great players to select from. Crosby, Stamkos, Giroux, Anaheim duo, Tavares has looked amazing on the big ice. Toews, Nash, maybe Iginla if you want some leadership (though I doubt he'll be as good as 13 other Canadian forwards). Bergeron seems to win everywhere and everything, if he's healthy he should go. They honestly can't select a bad group of forwards.

The other most important decision after goalies is coaching staff. Frankly Canada doesn't really need to worry about player selection, how can you do that wrong? Pre-tournament preparation as far as coaching and scouting is the most important thing. Babcock is a great coach, but I would select a different support staff to bring something new. Maybe a Sutter, maybe Vigneault, whatever.

Melrose Munch 06-12-2012 04:36 PM

So we have no Goalie for 2014. The US will win then.

Seanconn* 06-13-2012 11:44 PM

Stamkos-Crosby-Giroux
Tavares-Getzlaf-Perry
Hall-RNH-Eberle
Benn-Toews-Staal


Weber-Pietrangelo
Doughty-Keith
Letang-Myers

Price
Fleury
Holtby

UsernameWasTaken 06-15-2012 02:14 AM

i think, as previously noted, our goaltending has the potential to be our Waterloo.

obviously, our offense is loaded...and likely the deepest at the Olympics - the problem is that there are other teams who will be able to come up with reasonable offensive and much stronger goaltending - the US, and probably also Sweden, being chief amongst them.

as far as starting goaltenders go...i hate to say it but at this point i think our best bet will be luongo - at least he'll have been in situation before and *hopefully* will know what he's doing. Otherwise, I guess Price. At this point (and unless he suddenly becomes impressive) - Fleury must be kept well away from important games.

it's too early to panic...but i just see some hellshow where we end up 4th behind sweden us russia.

Seanconn* 06-15-2012 08:38 AM

Lol Luongo? No way man... 2 years from now.??? Hes already in decline as it is... Or the Canucks would be keeping him.

I'll eat my shorts if Luongo is the clear cut best option for Canada in Sochi. Personally, i doubt there will be a better Canadian goaltender than Carey Price.

Luongo will be a backup... If he even makes the team... I seriously don't understand how he is our best option at this point (right now) Maybe 2 years ago he was the best option.. Not now.

Both Fleury and Price are ahead... And if someone seriously thinks Fleury is too big of a risk, because of that ridiculous first round series this year...

I'll remind you of the multiple playoff games Luongo started where the Canucks had 7 or 8 goals against......

Luongo should not be Canada's starter. Price or Fleury.

Mehar 06-15-2012 08:57 PM

Hopefully Mike Smith and Holtby are tremendous next year, so even if Luongo is shaky next year, Canada will have two other goalies like Smith and Holtby to pick up the mantle. Not sure about Fleury, Price or even Ward being the starters at this time. Canada's goalkeeping is clearly the one area which can let this team down.


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