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-   -   What is "average skill" in a Beer league? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1203971)

Firestorm 06-07-2012 06:10 PM

What is "average skill" in a Beer league?
 
This thought started as a PM to certain people then I thought I would open up the floor to opinions or experiences on what generally constitute as average skill for a beer league player? Description or video evidence to illustrate their points are welcome.

(Both skating wise and hockey wise).

Stickmata 06-07-2012 07:28 PM

Our league has 17 'levels', from A to EEEEE. On a skill basis the median player is probably found in levels 8 (DD) through 10 (DDDD), with the levels above and below progressively better and worse, respectively. The average player is a reasonably good skater, can handle the puck well and has a decent understanding of the game. But average really doesn't matter when you have so many divisions, as one should always be able to find a level that's right for them.

OpenIceHit42 06-07-2012 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stickmata (Post 50643095)
Our league has 17 'levels', from A to EEEEE. On a skill basis the median player is probably found in levels 8 (DD) through 10 (DDDD), with the levels above and below progressively better and worse, respectively. The average player is a reasonably good skater, can handle the puck well and has a decent understanding of the game. But average really doesn't matter when you have so many divisions, as one should always be able to find a level that's right for them.

Wow that's a ton of levels.

I play in HNA in STL and I thought we had a-lot (A,B1,B2,B3,B4,C1,C2,Beginner)

Marotte Marauder 06-08-2012 06:33 AM

Given a choice, I prefer DD's.:)

Jarick 06-08-2012 07:21 AM

We have B, C1, C2, C3, D1, D2, and beginner. Sometimes (I think) there is an A session as well.

I think the most teams are in C2, at least from the summer league signups. Most C2 players either played as a kid but weren't necessarily really good players and played for a while as adults, or else they have played for a long time as adults and are fairly athletic. Above C1 and you were strong high school players, even some college, and below C3 and you typically didn't play as a kid ever.

Stories 06-08-2012 08:16 AM

In DC we have A, B1-B3, C1-C3, D1-D3, and Beginner. There's still a lot of heterogeneity in skill level even within each level. My team is sort of a tweener D1-D2 team. We got dominated in D1 and once we were demoted we dominated D2.

My personal skill level is probably at the high end of D2. I'm around PPG and I'm generally in the top end of most D2 teams in terms of skating speed. I can make passes and can shoot to score, but can't puck handle to save my life while I'm moving at full speed. Perhaps when I can stick handle at full speed I will be able to play in a higher level.

Halifaxhab* 06-08-2012 09:24 AM

average skill?

Not falling down more than once a game.

When on your feet, keep up with the speedsters (mostly)

Can actually take a slapshot without a MASSIVE wind up.

Can respond to a chirp with a good quip or can chirp well "hey ref! does your wife know you're effing us like this?"

esidebill 06-08-2012 09:49 AM

I've played in a few situations where it's "beginners" where the guys look like they've been playing for 5-10 years. I'd consider average a player of like 1-2 years where you know your positioning, you can make a decent pass and you can stay on your skates.

Wilch 06-08-2012 10:16 AM

There's at least 5 leagues in Vancouver. The larger leagues have anywhere from 10-14 tiers depending on the number of registered teams during the season.

Skill level ranges from twitching tripod on ice to ex-minor/junior leaguers.

I suppose the average player here has at least 3-5 years of ice or a combination of ice and inline hockey under their belt.

TUCKER 06 06-08-2012 10:58 AM

I'm also having difficulty determining what constitutes "average" skill when it comes to adult hockey. I don't think "years of experience" is a good gauge, as I've known guys who have played for 4-5 years and can barely skate still.

A little background: I played houseleague from age 7-12, had 1 amazing year and finished in the top 10 for scoring (mostly assists). I started playing shinny again last year (age 27) with co-workers and it came back pretty quickly. I worked really hard in the off season and do a bunch of off-ice training and have found that my game is better than ever. This year I tried hard to keep stats during my winter session of 3 games/week and finished with 56 goals, 46 assists, +31, 181 shots (est.), shooting 31% (est.) in 45 games.

I recently signed up for an adult skills/scrimmage course with TPH in London for "intermediate to advanced" players, thinking I'd be considered an intermediate player.

When I showed up I found that there is quite a range in skill level between all of the other players. There is probably one person I would consider beginner, but if I had to gauge my skill level within the relm of "intermediate to advanced" based on the players at this session, I'd say I'm closer to advanced than intermediate. I play shinny with some guys I'd consider "expert."

What sets us all apart is this:
Beginner: can't stick handle but "pushes" the puck with the blade of the stick, can accept a pass about 50% of the time, can pass the puck well 50% of the time. can only skate forward and does so by shuffling their feet or "walking," has little or no concept of positioning, breakouts, rules.

Intermediate: foundations of stick handling are present but not refined, developing a shot with a little bit of power and accuracy, more developed skating skills - stopping and starting, forward crossovers, acceleration, can skate backwards but not do backward crossovers - receives passes 75% of time and passes accurately 75% of the time. basic understanding of positioning, knows the rules of the game.

Advanced:stick handling is ingrained at this point (does it naturally), can reliably shoot with power and accuracy and can handle one-timers with no problem connecting, skating exhibits excellent edge control and agility - at this point pivoting, backward skating skills and power skating skills have all been developed to the point that they appear to be natural movements - can accept passes 95-100% of the time and passes accurately 95-100% of the time, excellent knowledge of positioning, set plays, etc.

Expert: amazing at everything, plays like they were born with skates on their feet and a stick in their hand.

This is just a quick guide I've made up just now to help myself evaluate where I fit in to the spectrum. I certainly wouldn't classify myself as an "advanced" player but I probably fall somewhere between "intermediate" and "advanced." With a lot more ice-time and off-ice training I hope to reach the advanced stage by next winter.

Jarick 06-08-2012 11:11 AM

By those definitions I'd be considered between intermediate and advanced but I get completely schooled when playing with the mid-level guys who all have way more power in their stride, better conditioning, and are far better at both passing and making hockey plays.

For instance, on my C3 team, only 2-3 people are at or above intermediate. Hockey plays don't happen. It is a struggle to break out the puck and making two passes in a row is unheard of. Most goals are scored either on the rush/breakaways or from a scrum around the net. Only a couple guys have even decent velocity on their shots.

Last night, played with a C2 team, and I was probably one of the bottom three players. Breakouts were incredibly smooth, with guys in great position to receive passes in the middle of the ice, nearly every entry in to the O zone involved 1-2 passes AFTER the blue line, lots of one timers, people catching passes easily on the backhand, saucer passes all over the place, guys getting into great position, and everyone can shoot the puck hard and fairly accurate.

Again, it's odd...I'm a top 3 scorer at the C3 level but struggle at C2. Each jump in skill is pretty big.

TUCKER 06 06-08-2012 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarick (Post 50661667)
By those definitions I'd be considered between intermediate and advanced but I get completely schooled when playing with the mid-level guys who all have way more power in their stride, better conditioning, and are far better at both passing and making hockey plays.

One of the skills I didn't include in my definitions was playmaking ability.

Where do you think those fit into the spectrum I've outlined above?
What other skills have been left out and where do those fit into the spectrum?

Wilch 06-08-2012 12:07 PM

4 groups is probably not quite enough.

I'm between intermediate-advanced in skating but puck skills is intermediate or less.

I've also seen some guys with elite level of skating, but hands aren't as great as their skating. And have seen guys with sick hands that aren't great skaters.

TUCKER 06 06-08-2012 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilch (Post 50663963)
4 groups is probably not quite enough.

I'm between intermediate-advanced in skating but puck skills is intermediate or less.

I've also seen some guys with elite level of skating, but hands aren't as great as their skating. And have seen guys with sick hands that aren't great skaters.

hmm. very good point. I'm sure those 4 groups could be broken up further to include categories between each of those outlined. I meant it as a very general assessment of players' skills.

OR

the categories of "Beginner/Intermediate/Advanced/Elite" could apply to each of the skills (like stick-handling, skating, positional play, etc.) and when you average them out you find what level of a hockey player you are.

I don't want to do that much typing, but be my guest!

Jarick 06-08-2012 12:42 PM

Understanding basic hockey plays, breakouts, making good passes, reading plays, knowing how to backcheck and forecheck, cutting off lanes, etc would be intermediate. Advanced would be anticipating plays (offensively and defensively), creating offense on the fly, not just being able to dump the puck or chip it out but use your skills to find a guy and spring him, etc.

I think the difference between say Advanced, Elite, and Pro is the speed with which you can make those plays. The best guys I've played with that are in that Advanced+ category can play a game similar to the pros, but at a much, MUCH slower rate of speed.

Think of when you hear guys saying they played with goons or fringe AHL'ers, and they were completely dominant. Those guys can make the same plays as the NHL'ers, but they couldn't do it at NHL speed. When you're watching the college game (or juniors I suppose), the plays are organic, just like the NHL, but it's a lot slower.

CunniJA 06-08-2012 01:40 PM

Ha ha ha. Like some of the other people in this thread, my league has 12 divisions... and that's for the summer league. The Winter has 17. So, the "average" player is not a very useful category there.

I think the discussion of this spectrum is interesting because you can be at a different classification depending on each individual area. For example, I'm definitely a 50/50 guy on receiving passes, but I can dish them out better than I can receive them. I'm also inconsistent with power and accuracy on my shot, but on the other hand, I can skate backwards and do backwards crossovers reasonably well. So, some of my skills fit beginner, but some reach to intermediate. I also, as always happens with me in sports because it's who I am, have a better head for the game than my skill shows.

newfr4u 06-08-2012 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarick (Post 50665473)
I think the difference between say Advanced, Elite, and Pro is the speed with which you can make those plays. The best guys I've played with that are in that Advanced+ category can play a game similar to the pros, but at a much, MUCH slower rate of speed.

Think of when you hear guys saying they played with goons or fringe AHL'ers, and they were completely dominant. Those guys can make the same plays as the NHL'ers, but they couldn't do it at NHL speed. When you're watching the college game (or juniors I suppose), the plays are organic, just like the NHL, but it's a lot slower.

this is correct, but this kind of gradation extends itself well before Advanced. the players execute fewer skills, but still do it at different speeds. explains why players can dominate one level but struggle on the next. because all of their advantage is suddenly gone.

Jarick 06-08-2012 02:15 PM

Yeah I'm definitely "advanced" when it comes to puck handling and shooting, "intermediate" when it comes to skating and passing.

So at our C3 level, where most guys are intermediate across the board, I can use my puck skills and shot to score quite a bit, but at the C2 level, where guys are closer to advanced across the board, my limitations drag me down quite a bit.

esidebill 06-08-2012 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarick (Post 50668685)
Yeah I'm definitely "advanced" when it comes to puck handling and shooting, "intermediate" when it comes to skating and passing.

So at our C3 level, where most guys are intermediate across the board, I can use my puck skills and shot to score quite a bit, but at the C2 level, where guys are closer to advanced across the board, my limitations drag me down quite a bit.

I'd pretty bad at everything except putting a body on someone and my wrist shot haha. I'd say it all evens out.

BigDuke6 06-08-2012 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TUCKER 06 (Post 50661137)
I'm also having difficulty determining what constitutes "average" skill when it comes to adult hockey. I don't think "years of experience" is a good gauge, as I've known guys who have played for 4-5 years and can barely skate still.

A little background: I played houseleague from age 7-12, had 1 amazing year and finished in the top 10 for scoring (mostly assists). I started playing shinny again last year (age 27) with co-workers and it came back pretty quickly. I worked really hard in the off season and do a bunch of off-ice training and have found that my game is better than ever. This year I tried hard to keep stats during my winter session of 3 games/week and finished with 56 goals, 46 assists, +31, 181 shots (est.), shooting 31% (est.) in 45 games.

I recently signed up for an adult skills/scrimmage course with TPH in London for "intermediate to advanced" players, thinking I'd be considered an intermediate player.

When I showed up I found that there is quite a range in skill level between all of the other players. There is probably one person I would consider beginner, but if I had to gauge my skill level within the relm of "intermediate to advanced" based on the players at this session, I'd say I'm closer to advanced than intermediate. I play shinny with some guys I'd consider "expert."

What sets us all apart is this:
Beginner: can't stick handle but "pushes" the puck with the blade of the stick, can accept a pass about 50% of the time, can pass the puck well 50% of the time. can only skate forward and does so by shuffling their feet or "walking," has little or no concept of positioning, breakouts, rules.

Intermediate: foundations of stick handling are present but not refined, developing a shot with a little bit of power and accuracy, more developed skating skills - stopping and starting, forward crossovers, acceleration, can skate backwards but not do backward crossovers - receives passes 75% of time and passes accurately 75% of the time. basic understanding of positioning, knows the rules of the game.

Advanced:stick handling is ingrained at this point (does it naturally), can reliably shoot with power and accuracy and can handle one-timers with no problem connecting, skating exhibits excellent edge control and agility - at this point pivoting, backward skating skills and power skating skills have all been developed to the point that they appear to be natural movements - can accept passes 95-100% of the time and passes accurately 95-100% of the time, excellent knowledge of positioning, set plays, etc.

Expert: amazing at everything, plays like they were born with skates on their feet and a stick in their hand.

This is just a quick guide I've made up just now to help myself evaluate where I fit in to the spectrum. I certainly wouldn't classify myself as an "advanced" player but I probably fall somewhere between "intermediate" and "advanced." With a lot more ice-time and off-ice training I hope to reach the advanced stage by next winter.

Based on these descriptions I would fall into the intermediate category. Working on the backwards crossovers. I got them down going left.

BigDuke6 06-08-2012 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wilch (Post 50663963)
4 groups is probably not quite enough.

I'm between intermediate-advanced in skating but puck skills is intermediate or less.

I've also seen some guys with elite level of skating, but hands aren't as great as their skating. And have seen guys with sick hands that aren't great skaters.

Very true. I've focused mostly on my skating in the past year (my first year skating) and passing (ability to make and receive a pass). I haven't put much emphasis on my shot, and it shows.

Stickmata 06-08-2012 03:08 PM

What I've noticed about hockey players is that, aside from true beginners, everyone thinks they're better than they really are. I don't think I've ever met a hockey player that underestimated their skill level. :laugh:

Jarick 06-08-2012 03:21 PM

True. Which is why most good players would probably see those classifications and think Advanced = Intermediate :P

CunniJA 06-08-2012 03:22 PM

That's true of basically everybody. Psychologists maintain that people in good, ordinary mental health tend to slightly overestimate their abilities.

michaelshu 06-08-2012 04:47 PM

When you guys talk about "skills", shouldn't the physical aspect come into play? Like size, speed and endurance?

I mean, i'd easily fall into the Advanced category. However, I don't think I will be able to come up to par in say the US or Canada especially at my age group. I'm just too small, period. If I live in US/Canada, I'd be grateful enough to play beer league.

When i was in junior years, I played with Swedish boys and yes they were bigger than me but not by many so I can still do well.
Afterwards, they just got a lot bigger while I stayed tiny :(


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