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Tuckerw68 06-09-2012 08:16 PM

Creatine
 
I do a lot of crossfit and hockey(obviously) and I am just starting creatine(monohydrate) and was wondering if anyone has had any experience with creatine and what their opinions of it are

r3cc0s 06-10-2012 12:15 AM

I wouldn't... too much water retention

funny, seems counter intuitive, but I found weight lifting to be the most beneficial to increasing my anerobic stamina in hockey... just my threshold and ability to recover increased... where as running and aerobic didn't have as much of an influence to this game, as lets say soccer

Stickmata 06-10-2012 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3cc0s (Post 50720189)
I wouldn't... too much water retention

This. My brother was pretty cut and he started using Creatine. Blew up like a balloon, literally. Looked awful. Got bigger but looked fat rather than ripped.

WhipNash27 06-10-2012 01:13 PM

Don't know why people bother so much with all of this crap. Hard work, good diet. If you want to supplement with protein, fine, but stay away from the other crap. It's for your own good.

r3cc0s 06-10-2012 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DubiSnacks17 (Post 50731245)
Don't know why people bother so much with all of this crap. Hard work, good diet. If you want to supplement with protein, fine, but stay away from the other crap. It's for your own good.

proper diet and a stimulant like caffine and glucose based drinks can give you more energy to replienish that store

that whole atkin/low-carb diet just doesn't benefit a anaerobic sport like Hockey... you need to use glycogen and if you need to replenish the store... a sweet drink like power aid does help sustain your performance level

eating things like banana's also help with moderating lactic acid buildup

one thing about low carb diets, where you switch your body to consume energy directly from fats than glycogen is that when you sweat... you'll smell like cat piss as your body is much more alkaline

michaelshu 06-10-2012 05:18 PM

I'm pretty sure you don't need creatine unless you're a bodybuilder.

Tuckerw68 06-10-2012 05:35 PM

My diet is very healthy(paleo) i don't eat grains, dairy, or sugars and I have talked to my crossfit coach and looked at much research regarding creatine and all that I have come across considers it healthy and productive for increased strength and endurance.

r3cc0s 06-10-2012 06:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tuckerw68 (Post 50739823)
My diet is very healthy(paleo) i don't eat grains, dairy, or sugars and I have talked to my crossfit coach and looked at much research regarding creatine and all that I have come across considers it healthy and productive for increased strength and endurance.

everyone I know who pushes a low carbohydrate and HIT workout routine have seen great looking results, however when it comes down to performing at a top physical and mental level across 60 minutes of high intensity sports... outside of the gains due to weight loss and increased aerobic conditioning have lost their "peak" strength for any extended duration

just an observation... nobody should be eating twinkies and pounding back redbull... but eating quality lean proteins (hemp hearts lets say), good fats, vegetables, high fiber and complex carbs (like granola or Rye's) is a better and more sustainable diet which is more conducive to providing the fuel required to perform at a top level

whereas, the south beach ultra low carb, protein based diet is used to make metabolic adjustments to cause the body to become more effecient at using glyogen rather than storing it as fat

its just not sustainable to "confuse" your body like that and expect to perform at your highest level

newfr4u 06-11-2012 12:31 AM

creatine is safe and cheap. go ahead and use it if you want, but the improvement is rather marginal unless you are pretty close to the peak of your potential. plus some people are non-responders.

if you are relatively weak or lack stamina you are unlikely to see any improvement that you wouldn't have seen without creatine. simply getting adequate calories, protein, and progressively increasing exercise is a lot more effective.

Iridium128 06-11-2012 02:35 AM

I study Sport and Exercise with an Exercise Prescription and Training major here at university. Creatine, if I remember correctly, helps replenish the ATP-PC energy system by replacing a phosphate when energy is used via the ATP molecule. So, for ATP (adenosine triphosphate) to be used as energy, it loses a phosphate and then is used during rapid contraction (fast movements) which then becomes ADP (adenosine diphosphate). All the creatine powder does is replenish the ADP with an extra phosphate turning it back into ATP with creatine as a waste product, which is flushed out of the body naturally.

Creatine is seen as useless as your body produces enough of it to supplement your daily workout. Unless you are looking to bulk (as in to be a bodybuilder/professional powerlifter) the only benefit you are gaining from creatine is a sour tasting version of packet mix juice which retains heaps of water in your body. Protein would be better for someone like yourself as that helps with muscle rehabilitation/growth.

Hope this helped :)

izzy3 06-11-2012 06:56 AM

I tried it when it first came out (I did not play hockey at the time), and there was a small peak (not by any mean as dramatic as they say in the advertisement) in my strength, but there's also a small slump as I came off. After a few months I wasn't sure I wouldn't have had the same results without it.

A year ago I felt like spending some extra money as I was browsing through the shop where I get my protein, and ordered one mix with some fancy transport system (BSN's Nitrix) and have not seen any change in my hockey performance. I ditched the thing after about 4 weeks.

Still, if you feel like you have money and want to play guinea pig, go ahead, it does have a miniscule effect.

esidebill 06-11-2012 09:01 AM

From experience, protein and a little fish oil will keep you going. I've also heard that lactic acid isn't necessarily a bad thing for the human body... I'll have to go find that article again.

TrueBlue86 06-11-2012 09:23 AM

i doubt you need creatine for a sport like hockey, unless you're a small guy in an ultra competitive checking league

Leo Trollmarov 06-11-2012 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by r3cc0s (Post 50720189)
I wouldn't... too much water retention

Cellmass(BSN) has almost NO water retention issues. At least I had no issues with it.


If you want to get stronger, I found NO-Xplode helped when I would plateau.

Tuckerw68 06-11-2012 11:59 AM

I have the product creacore by muscletech

JJ Johnson 06-15-2012 11:56 AM

This is a great community! Lots of talk going on, good stuff you guys rock :)

I'm a rookie around here, but just from what I've seen on some of these awesome threads & conversations,,, I would advise to "take what you read on here with a grain of salt". Of course, everyone has good intentions and is giving their opinions/advice from their own set of experiences,,, but especially regarding nutrition & supplementation, make sure you're taking the advice with a grain of salt,, and consider if the source is an expert in the field, or if they're just giving an opinion based on anecdotal evidence.

This forum is hugely valuable, as you get a tonne of different perspectives on here - collaboration like that is pretty amazing!

Regarding creatine, it absolutely should be used as a supplement by competitive (serious) hockey players. 100%. Creatine is a primary "energy/fuel source" that your body uses in explosive movements. Yes, we get it from our diet,,, not withstanding the fact that THE LARGE MAJORITY of the population does not get enough "meat" in their diet (a great source of creatine), even those that do will benefit from supplementing with creatine. There is a consensus (i.e. no arguement against it) in the scientific community (sports scientists) that creatine is helpful for a sport like hockey, plain and simple. Supplementing w/ creatine (i.e. giving more of that "fuel/energy" for explosive movements) improves your "power endurance", 100%. Tonnes of evidence to support this...

Because it's a "supplement", sometimes (often it seems) people who are unfamiliar with supplements just anecdotally say what they've heard: "that it causes bloating and water retention", perhaps without even knowing what that means. Muscles retaining water (as opposed to being "dehydrated") is not a terrible thing (within reason) for your performance... here's where the lines between "hockey player" (=performance athlete) are getting blurred (in the conversation about supplements) with a "body builder" (= physique athlete). Understandable, as body builders are historically the "athletes" who use supplements (a lot more than hockey players do, typically, and historically), and so we read this "stuff" (this "anecdotal evidence" in men's fitness or body building magazines, and hear it from other "guys at the gym") and we repeat what we hear: "it causes bloating and water retention". <-- that is of particular concern for a body builder who is trying to "cut" AND "dehydrate" himself so his muscles look more ripped <-- a state that even body builders don't maintain for long periods of time (they try to get ripped/super lean for a single body building show,,, the rest of the year they're not walking around ripped, they're building throughout the year)... but performance athletes (hockey players) don't WANT to be dehydrated! So if the creatine casues your muscles to hold more water, that's not a bad thing for your "performance" goals!!! Assuming your goals as a hockey player are performance based (i.e. "scoring goals" - pardon the pun, and winning games), and not motivated by "physique goals" or wanting to look dehydrated and super lean.

Does that make sense?

That being said, there is not a lot of regulation of the supplement industry, so doing your homework to make sure the supplement company has it's products tested & certified by a 3rd party is the only way to ensure the supplements are: 1) good 2) their claims are substantiated by 3rd party (i.e. not biased) research 3) healthy/ safe 4) not a banned substance 5) the ingredients listed on the label are actually the ingredients in the container (<-- doesn't always happen... so be sure it's 3rd party tested! Just ask them).

Creatine is not a steroid, it's not a banned substance... just a helpful supplement. It's a bit of a different category of supplements, but just to keep it in perspective, people also supplement with "Vitamin C" - your grandparents probably do! Just because it's a "supplement", that doesn't mean it's a steroid or it's harmful to your health or performance (like my Vitamin C example)! Creatine just has a bad rep (and has a different reputation then does Vitamin C), because it's commonly used by body builders, who also don't generally care about optimal health or performance (only their physique) and who also happen to use banned substances... but creatine is certainly not one of those banned substances. Using creatine, you'll be able to sprint faster & longer (on the ice) during your shifts.

Hope that makes sense!

zonedelta94 06-15-2012 04:11 PM

If you are looking to gain just raw strength it works good if you find the right product ...took me 3 different products off it but after finding it working out daily or 2 times a day in about 1 - 11/2 months jumped my bench max from 185 to 245 and squat from 225 to 305..and only gained 15 pounds...BUT when u quit working out you feel it and show it...so for size find protein creatine mix or if you want ripped and lots of energy for tons of reps take a prework out like jacked

zonedelta94 06-15-2012 04:17 PM

If you are looking to gain just raw strength it works good if you find the right product ...took me 3 different products off it but after finding it working out daily or 2 times a day in about 1 - 11/2 months jumped my bench max from 185 to 245 and squat from 225 to 305..and only gained 15 pounds...BUT when u quit working out you feel it and show it...so for size find protein creatine mix or if you want ripped and lots of energy for tons of reps take a prework out like jacked

Wile E Coyotes 06-16-2012 08:30 PM

Tried it once... Felt very lethargic and wasn't feeling good at all. I was drinking plenty water as recommended but the side effects I was experiencing made me quit.

ausername1 06-16-2012 10:32 PM

I'm using it right now- I'm pretty small compared to everyone else on my team (college club checking league). I've been using it for a few weeks and haven't really had any bad side effects...yet, maybe just a little thirstier than normal. I don't take it every day though, just when I work out.
I've noticed I can do more, and for longer periods of time, than I could without it. For example, I could do about 4-5 more sets of an exercise than usual before becoming fatigued. I assume that's because of the ADP to ATP thing the person above me was talking about. I've also noticed I'm less sore than usual too. In theory, doing more sets and doing it more often (because I'm not sore the next day) should bulk me up faster I suppose- although I'm hesitant to workout the same muscles on back to back days because they could still be repairing themselves, I've heard different things about this.
I've noticed improvements already but I'm not sure what will happen once I stop taking the creatine altogether. As I said, I'm also not taking it everyday as I hear a lot of people say they do so it might not even be working- my improvements and stamina could just be a result of the placebo effect.
I'll let you know if anything terrible happens as a result of the creatine but all in all I think it's only been helping so far. If you do decide to use it, just make sure you get plenty of protein as well.

ausername1 06-17-2012 12:35 PM

Another thing you might want to consider is how much (red?) meat you already have in your diet. As others have said, if you're not looking to get ripped or aren't playing in a super competetive league, the creatine you get from what you already eat will probably be enough. Any time you have excess stuff in your system, your body will have to filter it out. For creatine, your kidneys will probably be the ones doing the extra work. I haven't heard of it harming your kidney function but it's something you might want to research.

newfr4u 06-17-2012 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ausername1 (Post 51010627)
Another thing you might want to consider is how much (red?) meat you already have in your diet. As others have said, if you're not looking to get ripped or aren't playing in a super competetive league, the creatine you get from what you already eat will probably be enough. Any time you have excess stuff in your system, your body will have to filter it out. For creatine, your kidneys will probably be the ones doing the extra work. I haven't heard of it harming your kidney function but it's something you might want to research.

first of all, you would have to eat something like 10kg of red meat in order to get as much creatine as you would through a teaspoon worth of the supplement.

secondly, creatine loading dosage does not put extra stress on your kidneys, as the body absorbs it before it gets to the kidneys. don't attribute something like that to creatine. you essentially pee out anything the body doesn't take.

finally, creatine is very well researched in clinical studies and there's nothing that suggests it's harmful in even the most meaningless ways.

maroon 6 06-17-2012 06:50 PM

It depends on what your goal is. Are you working out mainly for strength or mass? If it's for mass, then yes, creatine could (keyword: could) help you. If your working out mainly for strength I would rather just go with pre workout supps. Most of them have creatine in them anyways, and they give me a huge boost. However most of these supps are pretty hit and miss, work for some and not for others. I would give both of them a shot.

CornKicker 06-18-2012 11:43 AM

everyone i played with back 10 years ago that used creatine to add mass ended up fat. some really fat.

Tuckerw68 06-18-2012 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CornKicker (Post 51042067)
everyone i played with back 10 years ago that used creatine to add mass ended up fat. some really fat.

That most likely is a result of them thinking that taking creatine means they can eat anything they want as opposed to a balances healthy diet


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