HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Montreal Canadiens (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=16)
-   -   Player Usage Chart (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1209831)

Protest the Hero 06-17-2012 12:41 PM

Player Usage Chart
 
http://the6thsens.com/PlayerUsageCharts2011-12.pdf

These charts show how players were used, and how they fared against their competition. If the bubble is blue, it means when they were on the ice, they outshot the opponent, if it's white, it means they were outshot, the bigger the bubble, the bigger the difference.

The higher a player appears on the chart, the tougher the opponents they faced. Left to right placement tracks the number of offensive zone starts a player receives, with those getting a higher percentage of starts in the offensive zone to the right.

What this means is guys like Gorges, Subban and White, received very tough minutes, while Gomez received some of the easiest minutes on the team. Probably my favourite quote, for people who continue to insist Subban is bad:

"Their top pairing on defense was defensive gem Josh Gorges and the highly impressive tough young star P.K. Subban and though it was Gorges who led the team with a +14, it was with Subban that the Habs enjoyed the biggest edge shot-wise."

Kjell Dahlin 06-17-2012 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Protest the Hero (Post 51008875)
http://the6thsens.com/PlayerUsageCharts2011-12.pdf

These charts show how players were used, and how they fared against their competition. If the bubble is blue, it means when they were on the ice, they outshot the opponent, if it's white, it means they were outshot, the bigger the bubble, the bigger the difference.

The higher a player appears on the chart, the tougher the opponents they faced. Left to right placement tracks the number of offensive zone starts a player receives, with those getting a higher percentage of starts in the offensive zone to the right.

What this means is guys like Gorges, Subban and White, received very tough minutes, while Gomez received some of the easiest minutes on the team. Probably my favourite quote, for people who continue to insist Subban is bad:

"Their top pairing on defense was defensive gem Josh Gorges and the highly impressive tough young star P.K. Subban and though it was Gorges who led the team with a +14, it was with Subban that the Habs enjoyed the biggest edge shot-wise."

It is a great read; excellent work by Rob Vollman and friends.

Btw... Gomez! He was given all the chances to shine in 2011-12. :banghead:

Edit:

And White was misused by Cunneyworth; I am a huge fan but White's hockey IQ is limited.

MXD 06-17-2012 01:07 PM

Awesome!!!

Two things I must say in regards to that chart :

- Yannic Weber doesn't belong in the NHL
- Cunneyworth should never coach a single game again in the NHL for using Ryan White like that.

overlords 06-17-2012 01:15 PM

Weber, Gomez, Blunden and staubitz need to GTFO.

Impossible Glory 06-17-2012 01:21 PM

I saw this a while ago. Very interesting.

Really strange that White was used this way. And we can definitively see how the Cole-DD-Paches line had easier minutes than Plekanec.

If we can find some good defensive 3rd liner to take off some time against tougher opposition from Plek, and have some, at least average, wingers to play a whole season with Tomas, that would upgrade our offense big time just by allowing our Czech to be more offensive. Without adding a forward star, or rushing our 1st pick.

Obviously, adding a star would be nice also, but given the market this year, I think this kinda simple solution would help our weak offense. Anyway, just my opinion.

MXD 06-17-2012 01:59 PM

Also, I'm pretty sure they mixed up St-Denis with Ponikarovsky.

The question is : How was that even possible..?!?!?!

WhiskeySeven 06-17-2012 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by overlords (Post 51009911)
Weber, Gomez, Blunden and staubitz need to GTFO.

Pretty clear that they're the 4 worst skaters on the team. I'm okay with keeping Staubitz and even Blunden at the league minimum.

I can't understand, nor believe, why or how anybody can still want to try Weber out again. He's decidedly terrible.

MasterDecoy 06-17-2012 02:33 PM

wow.... awesome-possum!

kinda cool how the two and a half men line are exactly in the middle. :laugh:

habsfan4life1996 06-17-2012 02:34 PM

anyone know how to create a new thread?

Kjell Dahlin 06-17-2012 02:39 PM

We outshot the opponents when Gionta and Subban were on the ice despite them (1) being on the ice against tougher opponents and (2) mostly starting their shifts in the defensive zone.

Gionta has become our most underrated player imo.

Watsatheo 06-17-2012 02:51 PM

What I found found interesting was Palushaj's numbers.

FlyingKostitsyn 06-17-2012 03:22 PM

Thats one less excuse for Gomez...

UniverStalinGraduate* 06-17-2012 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven (Post 51012121)
Pretty clear that they're the 4 worst skaters on the team. I'm okay with keeping Staubitz and even Blunden at the league minimum.

I can't understand, nor believe, why or how anybody can still want to try Weber out again. He's decidedly terrible.

Weber is a young guy with some pretty good offensive skills.

It makes me laugh that you can't understand why people don't want to give up on him yet. Especailly with how he played in the first dozen games of the season...and you know, the fact that everyone was subpar last year.

Talks to Goalposts 06-17-2012 04:13 PM

- Previous two seasons Plekanec would play those minutes and beat them (at least relative to the team). His numbers resembled Gionta's to start the season but were brutal in the back half of the season. Goes to show the impact the winger situation had on him. By shooting metrics Plekanec was about 53% with Cole, 54% with Pacioretty, 50% with Gionta (shutdown line), 47% with Cammalleri (also played shutdown) and 43% with Bourque. Habs sucked in the second half.

-Look at the same chart last year for Weber and you see him trouncing the same minutes. There's a big difference between having Spacek as your partner on the third pair than who Weber usually plays with. Still he's not exactly great shakes himself, Diaz is better as of now.

- Gomez was pretty decent playing a harder role under Martin to start the year. Was absolutely useless under Cunneyworth. Chip and chase did not mesh well with a player whose game is all about helping team puck possession and has a pretty limited skill set otherwise.

- Stabulitz is a brutal player in Montreal, has been a brutal player his entire career. Is only in the NHL to punch people. Anyone calling him a goon that can at least play hockey is wrong. He isn't even 4th line caliber in the NHL.

- St. Denis is a pretty interesting candidate for depth defenseman. He did surprisingly well in the third pairing job.

- Subban and Gorges are probably underrated for a 1st pairing. I'd say at the very least in the top 15 of the NHL. Penalty kill stats for those two are likewise brilliant (Subban's are near the tops in the league two years running). Subban isn't a future bonafied all situations number one defenseman, he's all that right now. Rest of the defense sucked.

- To be fair on Cunneyworth with regards to White, he only played after the lineup was gutted for winger depth.

-Despite protestations to the contrary I've heard frequently here. Cunneyworth feed everything into giving the Desharnais line easier minutes for a better chance for them to score, a process which killed the rest of the lineup. This was a losing strategy for Montreal.

MasterDecoy 06-18-2012 05:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Watsatheo (Post 51012885)
What I found found interesting was Palushaj's numbers.

maybe i won't be shot down next i talk him up a bit

WhiskeySeven 06-18-2012 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate (Post 51014147)
Weber is a young guy with some pretty good offensive skills.

It makes me laugh that you can't understand why people don't want to give up on him yet. Especailly with how he played in the first dozen games of the season...and you know, the fact that everyone was subpar last year.

Did you watch him play over the past three years? Did you mark any progression whatsoever? Do you even remember how he looks like in games?

No? It's Ok.

Just let people who are clear of neuro-degenerative diseases which affect the memory and who watch the games comment then - because Weber hasn't progressed and he was terrible. I see no point in ruining our chances next season by leaving a spot open for him.

There are tons of busts in the NHL and as far as I'm concerned Weber is one of them - and there is NO room to squeeze him in and hope he plays well:

Gorges - Subban
Markov - Emelin
Diaz - Kaberle
St-Denis

Is the weakest bottom 6 we could conceivably have. There's Tinordi who might make the team (not likely) or any UFA which we could target. St-Denis showed more skill and poise and so did Diaz. We don't have room for a failure of a project like Weber, he brings nothing to the table.

Pr3Va1L 06-18-2012 05:58 AM

2 things strike me:


Gorges with a QoC of +1,5

and I thought the DD line had even easier match-ups than that, but they're QoC is 0.

Corncob 06-18-2012 08:35 AM

Notable things for me:

*People who think that Diaz and Weber are in competition for a spot should stop now. Diaz outperformed Weber despite hugely tougher matchups and more defensive start. Diaz got slightly tougher minutes than Emelin and handled them at least as well as Emelin handled his.

*Lolmez

*Nokelainen and Staubitz are bad hockey players.

Protest the Hero 06-18-2012 09:32 AM

Staubitz may be bad, but look at Parros, just terrible. Rosehill I think has the worst placement of any player in the league.

Lshap 06-18-2012 10:16 AM

Thanks for this! The perfect gift for the hockey geek who has everything.

Plekanec is especially impressive, considering he carried the offensive load for non-shooting wingers all season. Conversely, Palushaj's stats are slightly inflated by playing with superior linemates, though I'll allow the possibility he's still better than I thought.

Joe Cole 06-18-2012 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UniverStalinGraduate (Post 51014147)
Weber is a young guy with some pretty good offensive skills.

It makes me laugh that you can't understand why people don't want to give up on him yet. Especailly with how he played in the first dozen games of the season...and you know, the fact that everyone was subpar last year.

I agree with WhiskeySeven on Weber.

No improvement.

Out muscled, poor defensive positioning, puck panic, poor passing and the worst element of his game... he passes up to many shots.

He has a great shot, but he constantly passes the puck back because his positioning is not correct for a clear shot to the net, and he seems to not be able to adjust to a pass that is 1 degree off of his sweet spot, it has to be 100%, or he passes it back.

Because his shot is all he has to offer at this point, if he does not get into a position where he can use it, he is pointless to have on the roster.

Roulin 06-18-2012 10:59 AM

Nice, well done!

Regarding Weber, he'll be turning 24. That's a pretty common age for young dmen to step up. He's shown flashes on the PP. He hasn't proven he belongs in an NHL top 6 yet, but I could see it happening this season. I think the Habs could do worse than starting with Weber as #7 or 8.

PricePkPatch 06-18-2012 12:48 PM

What? Desharnais hasn't been sheltered after all?!

Impossible!!!

Et le But 06-18-2012 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PricePkPatch (Post 51042281)
What? Desharnais hasn't been sheltered after all?!

Impossible!!!

Well, you can't deny that Desharnais had the benefit of Plekanec and Eller's usages - Desharnais' numbers are still very good in that context, considering he wasn't given a free ride or anything, but you have to wonder how he'd do without Pleks to constantly throw to the wolves.

And this does support the idea that the Desharnais line was the only line used properly.

On the other hand, Gomez is an even bigger joke than I thought.

This also illuminates why coaching matters - giving White and Bourque those kind of minutes is a complete joke.

Protest the Hero 06-18-2012 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PricePkPatch (Post 51042281)
What? Desharnais hasn't been sheltered after all?!

Impossible!!!

He gets easier minutes than nearly every other centre on the team. Not that it's a bad thing, his line was being used perfectly if we go by that chart imo.

I've always been impressed by Nikitin whenever I had a chance to see him play, and this chart shows why. It would be wonderful to acquire him, Columbus is already spending a ton on their backend.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:42 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.