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newfy 06-21-2012 05:59 PM

Draft Strategy Change
 
This can probably be merged with the other draft thread but its a little different so whatever.

On the malik report an interview with Nill was posted where for the first time in 15 years, the wings have altered their draft strategy. This year they are looking for size and toughness in the draft with the departure of Lidstrom, and also playoff success of big, tough teams.

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.ph..._at_the_draft/

This gets my hopes up for Lukas Sutter even more

SoupNazi 06-21-2012 06:03 PM

You realize that this is going to turn into a thread of bashing Holland for trading the 1st, right? Because it is.

Henkka 06-21-2012 06:07 PM

Is this kind of old news? They didn't take any midgets already at last year.

Zetterberg4Captain 06-21-2012 06:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newfy (Post 51206407)
This can probably be merged with the other draft thread but its a little different so whatever.

On the malik report an interview with Nill was posted where for the first time in 15 years, the wings have altered their draft strategy. This year they are looking for size and toughness in the draft with the departure of Lidstrom, and also playoff success of big, tough teams.

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.ph..._at_the_draft/

This gets my hopes up for Lukas Sutter even more

love it....

Bench 06-21-2012 06:22 PM

The "new" strategy takes into account Detroit probably won't have 3 or 4 Hall of Fame players in their prime (or playing like it into their lat 30s like Lidstrom) to overcome team deficiencies. Probably a good idea.

Zetterberg4Captain 06-21-2012 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bench (Post 51207913)
The "new" strategy takes into account Detroit probably won't have 3 or 4 Hall of Fame players in their prime (or playing like it into their lat 30s like Lidstrom) to overcome team deficiencies. Probably a good idea.

and it is EXACTLY what everyone who knows and follows the game has been saying

RedWingsNow* 06-21-2012 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by newfy (Post 51206407)
This can probably be merged with the other draft thread but its a little different so whatever.

On the malik report an interview with Nill was posted where for the first time in 15 years, the wings have altered their draft strategy. This year they are looking for size and toughness in the draft with the departure of Lidstrom, and also playoff success of big, tough teams.

http://www.kuklaskorner.com/index.ph..._at_the_draft/

This gets my hopes up for Lukas Sutter even more

It's only been two years of "big" teams winning the cup after 3 years of skill teams.
I don't mind getting bigger. But the Wings need to be careful about moving changing the puck possession philosophy that has worked since the days of the Russian 5.
How about give the puck possession guys the skill they need in the top 6 and then dump every bottom 6er we have unless they have top flight speed or serious physical presence

Winger98 06-21-2012 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Henkka (Post 51206959)
Is this kind of old news? They didn't take any midgets already at last year.

that's sort of what I'm thinking, too. I mean, you can't just go out and say, "Hey, we need some size," and draft the biggest kid you can find while ignoring their actual abilities. We do that, and we could be revisiting the drafts that produced such noteworthy talents as Ryan Barnes, Tomek Valtonen, and Adam Deleuwhatever. If we return to our mid 90s style of drafting, we're really up the creek without a paddle.

I think it's just as big for the Wings to recognize players can occasionally contribute before that 4-5 year window that Nill speaks of is up. Smith could have started the year with us. Nyquist could have started the year with us. In the past, Helm could have made the jump a year earlier. we might go into camp and see that someone like Sheahan, Andersson or Tatar could contribute. Instead of forcing these kids onto GR because we have a preconception that they "need" 4-5 years, we also need to be willing and able to change that and go with someone if they look ready - like Smith did. To me, it should be just as much about revamping the development system a bit as it is about drafting bigger players.

edit: or I just sort of agree with CB. scary...:D

Zetterberg4Captain 06-21-2012 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winger98 (Post 51209471)
that's sort of what I'm thinking, too. I mean, you can't just go out and say, "Hey, we need some size," and draft the biggest kid you can find while ignoring their actual abilities. We do that, and we could be revisiting the drafts that produced such noteworthy talents as Ryan Barnes, Tomek Valtonen, and Adam Deleuwhatever. If we return to our mid 90s style of drafting, we're really up the creek without a paddle.

I think it's just as big for the Wings to recognize players can occasionally contribute before that 4-5 year window that Nill speaks of is up. Smith could have started the year with us. Nyquist could have started the year with us. In the past, Helm could have made the jump a year earlier. we might go into camp and see that someone like Sheahan, Andersson or Tatar could contribute. Instead of forcing these kids onto GR because we have a preconception that they "need" 4-5 years, we also need to be willing and able to change that and go with someone if they look ready - like Smith did. To me, it should be just as much about revamping the development system a bit as it is about drafting bigger players.

edit: or I just sort of agree with CB. scary...:D

i think Nill really meant that they were looking at getting some bigger guys(with talent) because by and large the bigger guys dont need 4-5 years of seasoning and are able to contribute much sooner(assuming they can)

SoupNazi 06-21-2012 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winger98 (Post 51209471)
I think it's just as big for the Wings to recognize players can occasionally contribute before that 4-5 year window that Nill speaks of is up. Smith could have started the year with us. Nyquist could have started the year with us. In the past, Helm could have made the jump a year earlier. we might go into camp and see that someone like Sheahan, Andersson or Tatar could contribute. Instead of forcing these kids onto GR because we have a preconception that they "need" 4-5 years, we also need to be willing and able to change that and go with someone if they look ready - like Smith did. To me, it should be just as much about revamping the development system a bit as it is about drafting bigger players.

I agree with you. Nyquist, Smith, and Tatar are all overripe, IMO. We should just let them get ripe rather than risk that they spoil. Nyquist playing third or fourth line minutes this past year would have been better than him rotting in the AHL. Tatar doing that this year would be good, but he'll spend the year in the AHL.

Rolo Tomassi 06-21-2012 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Bob (Post 51208845)
It's only been two years of "big" teams winning the cup after 3 years of skill teams.
I don't mind getting bigger. But the Wings need to be careful about moving changing the puck possession philosophy that has worked since the days of the Russian 5.
How about give the puck possession guys the skill they need in the top 6 and then dump every bottom 6er we have unless they have top flight speed or serious physical presence


I agree 100% with everything you typed, especially the bolded part!

Winger98 06-21-2012 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zetterberg4Captain (Post 51210171)
i think Nill really meant that they were looking at getting some bigger guys(with talent) because by and large the bigger guys dont need 4-5 years of seasoning and are able to contribute much sooner(assuming they can)

I hope so, but we'll see. as Henkka mentioned, we drafted a lot of bigger guys last year, but I don't remember the Wings coming out before the draft and saying they needed to focus on size. I'm just not sure what I expect the Wings to do at this point.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoupNazi (Post 51210321)
I agree with you. Nyquist, Smith, and Tatar are all overripe, IMO. We should just let them get ripe rather than risk that they spoil. Nyquist playing third or fourth line minutes this past year would have been better than him rotting in the AHL. Tatar doing that this year would be good, but he'll spend the year in the AHL.

I could sort of understand Nyquist, as I think it was expected that he would hit a wall in the second half since he's not used to playing so many games. When it became clear that he wasn't hitting that wall, though, they should have had him up and given him a spot. I wouldn't mind seeing Tatar up this year, either.

Boomhower 06-21-2012 09:55 PM

I hope they look at Ryan Rupert with a late pick. He fits the toughness angle, is skilled and fearless. Lacks size though.

I think Jarrod Maidens or Henrik Samuelson are big skilled guys that Detroit would be lucky to get at 49! Maidens' size listing isn't imprssive, but he is really solid on his skates and plays bigger (and looks bigger) than his listing. I think he'll fill out to be a big guy.

Run the Jewels 06-21-2012 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bench (Post 51207913)
The "new" strategy takes into account Detroit probably won't have 3 or 4 Hall of Fame players in their prime (or playing like it into their lat 30s like Lidstrom) to overcome team deficiencies. Probably a good idea.

Well that and the fact none of their "puck possession" draft picks have developed into high level NHL players.

Cory Emmerton: remember those Joe Thornton comparisons? :facepalm:
Randy Cameron: compared to Mike Fisher
Dick Axelsson
Mattias Ritola
Christofer Lofberg
Johan Ryno
Evan McGrath
Ryan Oulahen

You have to go all the way back to 2002 when the Wings drafted Hudler, Filppula and Fleischmann where the "puck possession" philosophy consistently churned out NHL talent. We haven't turned out a true puck possession guy in 10 years. Mursak isn't looking like he's ready to dominate and I've been a fan ever since he was drafted and I understand an injury set him back last year.

It just makes sense to get guys with size who can skate and have good defensive awareness. Puck possession is much prettier to watch but with a hard salary cap and a league that like the NFL is geared towards parity, there is something to be said for drafting big, mobile forwards and d-men who at a bare minimum can shut the opposing team down.

I don't like that it has come down to this but you absolutely must play to the rules of the game. For as long as there is a hard cap you can't afford to use a lot of draft picks on a type of player - undersized, slow - who over the past 10 years hasn't turned into a significant contributor for you and cannot even play a style that gives you a chance at success at a bare minimum.

You know what type of player can? Riley Sheahan.

Vatican Roulette 06-21-2012 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoupNazi (Post 51210321)
I agree with you. Nyquist, Smith, and Tatar are all overripe, IMO. We should just let them get ripe rather than risk that they spoil. Nyquist playing third or fourth line minutes this past year would have been better than him rotting in the AHL. Tatar doing that this year would be good, but he'll spend the year in the AHL.

I would like Tatar to start on the 4th line in training camp. He will work his way up.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boomhower (Post 51218867)
I hope they look at Ryan Rupert with a late pick. He fits the toughness angle, is skilled and fearless. Lacks size though.

I think Jarrod Maidens or Henrik Samuelson are big skilled guys that Detroit would be lucky to get at 49! Maidens' size listing isn't imprssive, but he is really solid on his skates and plays bigger (and looks bigger) than his listing. I think he'll fill out to be a big guy.

Maidens should be available with that pick. Sam, not so much. I'm expecting him to go in the first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Winger98 (Post 51218641)
I hope so, but we'll see. as Henkka mentioned, we drafted a lot of bigger guys last year, but I don't remember the Wings coming out before the draft and saying they needed to focus on size. I'm just not sure what I expect the Wings to do at this point.


I expect a off the grid 2nd rounder, and then business as usual on the rest of the draft. College bound picks, and hunches.

RedWingsNow* 06-21-2012 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fabricoh (Post 51222145)
Well that and the fact none of their "puck possession" draft picks have developed into high level NHL players.

Cory Emmerton: remember those Joe Thornton comparisons? :facepalm:
Randy Cameron: compared to Mike Fisher
Dick Axelsson
Mattias Ritola
Christofer Lofberg
Johan Ryno
Evan McGrath
Ryan Oulahen

You have to go all the way back to 2002 when the Wings drafted Hudler, Filppula and Fleischmann where the "puck possession" philosophy consistently churned out NHL talent. We haven't turned out a true puck possession guy in 10 years. Mursak isn't looking like he's ready to dominate and I've been a fan ever since he was drafted and I understand an injury set him back last year.

It just makes sense to get guys with size who can skate and have good defensive awareness. Puck possession is much prettier to watch but with a hard salary cap and a league that like the NFL is geared towards parity, there is something to be said for drafting big, mobile forwards and d-men who at a bare minimum can shut the opposing team down.

I don't like that it has come down to this but you absolutely must play to the rules of the game. For as long as there is a hard cap you can't afford to use a lot of draft picks on a type of player - undersized, slow - who over the past 10 years hasn't turned into a significant contributor for you and cannot even play a style that gives you a chance at success at a bare minimum.

You know what type of player can? Riley Sheahan.

Yeah, but the players are out there on UFA.
Some are going to have faults. But they are out there.

That's why I'm not sure it's such a great thing if Hudler walks.
For all the complaints, he's one one of the only guys who thinks the game the Red Wing way in the offensive zone.

sarcastro 06-21-2012 10:57 PM

I've read that Maidens is a pretty slow skater. That plus the concussion issue make me nervous about his NHL potential.

GentlemanMasher* 06-21-2012 11:01 PM

If I had a choice, my new strategy would include making sure every draftee had wheels and work ethic. After that, judge as normal and go for the guys you normally would. Because no matter how much skill you have, without speed and the will to use it, you're **** on a bull.

Boomhower 06-21-2012 11:05 PM

I wouldn't call Maidens slow. He's an average skater, not a burner. He's a guy who can dominate the boards and has the skill to hold on to the puck and slow the game down.

He was rated top 20 at mid terms. Of course the injury is a factor... it's the only reason were even talking Maidens at 49. He was a surefire 1st rounder.

Detroit has to take a chance on high risk/reward type players with a lack of a high pick IMO. But maybe that strategy has changed aswell.

fimoknete 06-21-2012 11:07 PM

haha, they are drafting garbage or non first line talents since 8 years or so and holland finally recongnized it?
wow, that was quick.
what is he doing now? telling the scouts stop scouting garbage?
lets see how that will work......
i guess without 1st round picks we will do much better in the future......:shakehead

FlashyG 06-21-2012 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fimoknete (Post 51223197)
haha, they are drafting garbage or non first line talents since 8 years or so and holland finally recongnized it?
wow, that was quick.
what is he doing now? telling the scouts stop scouting garbage?
lets see how that will work......
i guess without 1st round picks we will do much better in the future......:shakehead

We get it... you don't like the Red Wings or Ken Holland.

Run the Jewels 06-21-2012 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fimoknete (Post 51223197)
haha, they are drafting garbage or non first line talents since 8 years or so and holland finally recongnized it?
wow, that was quick.
what is he doing now? telling the scouts stop scouting garbage?
lets see how that will work......
i guess without 1st round picks we will do much better in the future......:shakehead

It will be interesting to see how the latest "top 6" prospects do.

1. Nyquist - looks legit, is European but came to NA after being drafted. Typical Red Wing puck possession guy. Should replace Hudler this year :fingerscrossed: He'll be the first puck possession guy to break through in 10 years.
2. Tatar - also fits the classic puck possession style of play but hasn't locked down a spot. Like many puck possession guys Detroit drafts, he has focused so much on improving his defensive game that he's less of an offensive presence and doesn't have the size to be a good defensive forward. Catch 22.
3. Ferraro - same as Tatar, was supposed to be an offensive force when drafted but is now a defensive forward. At least he has good speed and could become a Darren Helm-like defensive forward and PK'er.
4. Sheahan - the new breed: chance of being a top 6 scoring line forward but if that doesn't pan out he can be a very good shut-down forward like Jordan Staal.
5. Jarnkrok - like Nyquist he looks legit. Hopefully his trajectory continues its upward swing. That would make him the second puck possession guy to crack the top 6 since the 2002 draft.
6. Jurco - he's another puck possession guy. Arrows are pointing sky high.

So I don't think they've completely given up on drafting puck possession forwards. For the first two picks in each of the last three drafts they have selected a puck possession guy with 4 out of the 6 picks. Nyquist is as sure of a sure thing as possible. It's too early to say that about any of the other guys although some look like they're legit.

WesNichols14 06-22-2012 12:15 AM

I love that Sheahan is finally getting some real respect. it seemed like a lot of people didnt like him because of his point totals, and the "New Breed" statement fabricoh said fits perfect for him imho

fimoknete 06-22-2012 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlashyG (Post 51223685)
We get it... you don't like the Red Wings or Ken Holland.

thats inaccurate.
i like the red wings but i dont like how they got screwed the last 5 years by the management and their results.
its not the fault of the team that holland tries to win a cup with fringe or garbage player.
beside that, i dont know wether i like ken holland or not but i know that i dont like his work results.

Rzombo4 prez 06-22-2012 02:13 PM

I see this as a misinformation campaign to keep teams away from Nikita Gusev.


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