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-   -   Speculation: Lombardi's UFA strategy (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1214541)

Rorschach 06-23-2012 04:26 AM

Lombardi's UFA strategy
 
I believe he will execute a plan of something like this...obviously some of it has already happened:

1) Sign the one guy who wants to stay the most to a hometown discount (Stoll), establishing idea of hometown discount Kings and the cap is falling

2) Sign the next easiest to sign guy to almost nothing (Fraser), furthering the idea that everyone wants to play here for cheap...to Penner

3) Work on signing the guy he wants to take the biggest pay cut after establishing a clear pattern that his other UFA team mates have signed for much less and cheap, compared to what they could have gotten (Penner), cementing the idea that everyone on the team will sacrifice salary to keep the team together...to the other big UFAs

4) Sign one of the big two UFAs, Parise or Suter, whomever if either or maybe both, buy in to this idea that other players have already established...you want to win, you will here but you gotta "fit in" both salary-wise and team concept-wise...

Hope it works!

Adding Parise will improve both our first and third lines greatly. Adding Suter solves nearly all of our problems of Scuderi leaving in the future along with adding another guy who can do what Greene does...right now we don't have that guy.



- R

dresi 06-23-2012 04:35 AM

Unlikely. What about extensions for Quick and Brown? There is no room for Parise or Sutter.

Vic Vinegar 06-23-2012 04:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dresi (Post 51358393)
Unlikely. What about extensions for Quick and Brown? There is no room for Parise or Sutter.

I actually think we could fit Suter under the cap, assuming we would then flip Scuderi. It would probably make a net difference of roughly 2 million. The trick is convincing him to sign here.

KingsFan7824 06-23-2012 06:17 AM

The Kings are done. The Kings already have 14 forwards that are either a lock to be on the team, or have a spot to lose. Penner might not even be in the picture at this point, let alone Parise, who isn't going to take less to come to LA.

It's one thing with Stoll or Penner to take a pay cut to stay, since they actually were on the team that won the Cup. What does that Cup get Parise? There's no guarantee the Kings will win another one, and whatever team Parise goes to will have the same chance to win a Cup in the coming years as the Kings do.

Add Suter now for when Scuderi leaves at least a year from now? That's not how it works.

I would guess the Kings will be very quiet until whenever the season starts up, other than signing Quick, and maybe filling out Manchester's roster(as they started to do at the draft).

MsWoof 06-23-2012 08:26 AM

I agree Quick needs an extension right now, then they can decide on what to do with Bernier. I wouldn't sign Brown to an extension just yet, he needed a fire lit under him to get him going at the deadline so I'd rather not hand him something and see him get complacent. It's going to be hard enough for them to get motivated after winning the cup no matter what anyone says, so handing him an extension now isn't needed.

As far as Parise goes, every fanbase thinks he wants to play for them so it's a crapshoot. I think Penner will have to take a pretty good paycut to stay. He's expendable as far as I'm concerned.

AKAY47 06-23-2012 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DimMak187 (Post 51358453)
I actually think we could fit Suter under the cap, assuming we would then flip Scuderi. It would probably make a net difference of roughly 2 million. The trick is convincing him to sign here.

This is exactly what Pittsburgh did when they flipped Z Michalek haha

Sydor25 06-23-2012 09:41 AM

Dean will send an offer to Parise and/or Suter, but will not outbid anyone. Neither will sign in LA.

My guess is that Parise stays in NJ and Suter goes to Detroit or Pittsburgh.

Kingler 06-23-2012 10:04 AM

Most of the team is set and I don't expect much excitement to be honest.

Only position that is left open now is 2nd line LW. I don't think Penner is coming back and if he is going to make anywhere close to what he made his last contract, I don't really want him back. I think Dean will look to bring in someone who doesn't break the bank through UFA or trade. Gagne can fill in if he's healthy but that is such a big IF. I doubt Dean will seriously go after Parise though. I just don't see it as Deano style to commit to Parise before the big CBA negotiation. If cap was to be reduced to $60-$65m range then we are screwed with Quick

Sydor25 06-23-2012 10:16 AM

I don't see the nhlpa taking a 15% pay cut to drop the cap max to $60 million. If that is what the owners want, I fear there will be a lockout.

Vamos Rafa 06-23-2012 10:28 AM

Do we have to worry about Suter signing with the Sharks? If he's not signing here, he better not go to a division rival.

Sydor25 06-23-2012 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grillinnap (Post 51377061)
Do we have to worry about Suter signing with the Sharks? If he's not signing here, he better not go to a division rival.

Suter has way better options than SJ. I don't see Suter in the pacific.

SJ has a weak UFA record, even with regular season success.

Hatter 06-23-2012 10:35 AM

Can some of you imagine of Dean signed BOTH Suter and Parise? I can't. lol

Kingler 06-23-2012 10:42 AM

Think cap his getting too large to be honest. And even if its lowered by $5-$10m it won't affect the players much (given that there's no mandatory reduction in salary). If the cap rules stay as it is there will be team this year having problem getting over the cap minimum. $70m cap means minimum $54m. $16m below the cap...?

So with that, I did a quick tally. And the money some teams need to add so that they get under the cap space is just crazy. For example, Pheonix need to sign 5 players to avg of $3.15m a year. Nashville need to sign 10 players to avg at $2.17m. Basically if you only take the teams who need to get over the minimum. All these teams need to sign 144 players for avg of $1.58m. That's crazy and that will lead to pretty bad salary being hand out in UFA. I see NHL fixing this, whether its lowering the maximum or minimum. NHLPA will put up a pretty big fight though I agree

Hatter 06-23-2012 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kingler (Post 51379277)
Think cap his getting too large to be honest. And even if its lowered by $5-$10m it won't affect the players much (given that there's no mandatory reduction in salary). If the cap rules stay as it is there will be team this year having problem getting over the cap minimum. $70m cap means minimum $54m. $16m below the cap...?

So with that, I did a quick tally. And the money some teams need to add so that they get under the cap space is just crazy. For example, Pheonix need to sign 5 players to avg of $3.15m a year. Nashville need to sign 10 players to avg at $2.17m. Basically if you only take the teams who need to get over the minimum. All these teams need to sign 144 players for avg of $1.58m. That's crazy and that will lead to pretty bad salary being hand out in UFA. I see NHL fixing this, whether its lowering the maximum or minimum. NHLPA will put up a pretty big fight though I agree



isn't it 57%/43% right now and the owners want it 50/50?
Just spitballing here but how bout they just meet in the middle. Say 53.5%/46.5%. I know I know too crazy to work.

JBernierFan 06-23-2012 11:14 AM

I can't believe some of you are honestly on the Parise and Suter train! This team is set. Sure, Dean might throw an offer to them, but it won't be competitive. For once in our lives, the Kings don't NEED to sign a big free agent or make a splash. The second line LW will be Penner or Gagne (or someone not named Parise). I don't to sign a big free agent, only to be screwed cap wise after we re-sign Quick (and possibly a backup goalie) and when Brown needs a raise in a few years.

Face Wash 06-23-2012 11:38 AM

Kings are in great shape short term and long term. Forgetting Penner...they have 6 RFAs, JQ32 and DB23 in the next two years. 12M in space now with one spot left with Scuderi, Gagne, Richardson & Drewiske coming of the books ($8M of cap space) after next season. With some good looking prospects and organizational depth. I'm not saying the Kings should go hard after Parise, but unless he hates LA, or is fundamentally opposed to tougher travel or wants to be near his family, he should take a long look at whatever DL offers because the Kings are set up very much like Detroit, which WAS the plan all along.

Monarchist 06-23-2012 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBernierFan (Post 51384165)
I can't believe some of you are honestly on the Parise and Suter train! This team is set. Sure, Dean might throw an offer to them, but it won't be competitive. For once in our lives, the Kings don't NEED to sign a big free agent or make a splash. The second line LW will be Penner or Gagne (or someone not named Parise). I don't to sign a big free agent, only to be screwed cap wise after we re-sign Quick (and possibly a backup goalie) and when Brown needs a raise in a few years.

Mitchell is going to decline. Scuderi is going to leave. Medium term, a new guy is needed. Why not do that now with Suter if possible? No need to wait until desperate later on.

BringTheReign 06-23-2012 11:56 AM

Quick needs to be extended, and if Penner is interested in staying, I don't see why Lombardi wouldn't sign him. Going after Parise or Suter (unless they sign for massive discounts) would leave us pressed up against the cap after Quick is extended. I don't see us being very active this summer except for possibly trading Bernier, or maybe a prospect for prospect swap to get a change of scenery for someone who has fallen out of favor in our system.

KingKopitar11* 06-23-2012 12:02 PM

All I see is getting rid of Bernier for some picks/ or 2nd/3rd liner. Other than that we are good. Maybe get rid of Bernier and Richardson for some picks or maybe more. Who knows. But we dont need to sign UFAs. If penner doesnt work out, then maybe.

KingKopitar11* 06-23-2012 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BringTheReign (Post 51389739)
Quick needs to be extended, and if Penner is interested in staying, I don't see why Lombardi wouldn't sign him. Going after Parise or Suter (unless they sign for massive discounts) would leave us pressed up against the cap after Quick is extended. I don't see us being very active this summer except for possibly trading Bernier, or maybe a prospect for prospect swap to get a change of scenery for someone who has fallen out of favor in our system.


Lombardi is probably hesitant to sign penner after a crap shoot reg. season. He did great in the playoffs other then that he sucked.

Shellz 06-23-2012 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 (Post 51390493)
Lombardi is probably hesitant to sign penner after a crap shoot reg. season. He did great in the playoffs other then that he sucked.

Playing great in the playoffs is pretty important, haha. He also had a lot of personal issues. I don't think that old Penner will be coming back with Sutter behind the bench.

KingKopitar11* 06-23-2012 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shellz (Post 51391311)
Playing great in the playoffs is pretty important, haha. He also had a lot of personal issues. I don't think that old Penner will be coming back with Sutter behind the bench.

I know it is important that's why there's actually a chance we might sign him, if it wasn't for the playoffs he'd be gone. Personal issues most likely, but I don't know. I want him, but its risky too.

Rorschach 06-23-2012 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dresi (Post 51358393)
Unlikely. What about extensions for Quick and Brown? There is no room for Parise or Sutter.

Extensions come in to effect next year when Gagne's contract and a couple others come off the books.

KingsFan7824 06-23-2012 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monarchist (Post 51389703)
Mitchell is going to decline. Scuderi is going to leave. Medium term, a new guy is needed. Why not do that now with Suter if possible? No need to wait until desperate later on.

The Kings have their $7 million defenseman. Focus on other defenseman to replace Mitchell and Scuderi at some point, because Suter isn't even an option, for a number of reasons.

Rorschach 06-23-2012 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingKopitar11 (Post 51390493)
Lombardi is probably hesitant to sign penner after a crap shoot reg. season. He did great in the playoffs other then that he sucked.

Lombardi will talk to Penner's people this week after signing Fraser and Stoll last week (yesterday). I don't think it's coincidence that he signed the two guys first then immediately starts talking to Penner. ...right after he drafted Tanner Pearson.

The point of the whole thing will be to convince a guy like Parise or Suter that you're clearly joining something special and to be part of it all, the first qualification is that you sign long term and to a rate that fits and matches everyone else...like Parise shouldn't make more than Richards and Suter shouldn't make the same amount as Doughty.

Obviously we have great players too for these guys to play with.


Maybe we don't get either guy...but look, now we can make a compelling case that doesn't involve outbidding someone. Maybe we sign neither guy this year but next off-season and the next, the pattern will be established.



And for the people who feel the players we have right now that we have a team that's set, we didn't have any major injuries that run, only one to our bottom six in Clifford. We kept chugging because we had Richardson to fill that spot and then later Gagne. Remember two years ago when we had Kopitar and Stoll? The former went down, Stoll took over valiantly, we fought hard against San Jose. We lost twice in overtime. The whole time I was thinking...man if Kopitar was here, you guys would be the ones losing in six.

We lost two games in OT in that series.
This year we had guys like Penner (reborn), Carter and King, all guys who can score a big goal, and Kopi was here too. We won EVERY FREAKING OT GAME.

Remember when we had this entire team and couldn't score a goal? The roster was exactly the same except we had Jack Johnson. Then we acquired just ONE forward in Jeff Carter, who didn't to that much numbers-wise but instantly we became dominant Stanley Cup contenders (we didn't know it at the time but it happened). And we brought up Voynov, which enabled us in to trade JJ.


The point is, although the NHL roster is very deep, for the next five years we must prepare every year for two to four years in advance in case a key guy gets hurt. This next year, 2013 and 2013 alone, we have a little depth in wing. We have depth in top two centers because we have depth at wing (Richards or Kopitar goes down, Carter becomes center, another player takes over at wing...Carter goes down, wing takes his place of course). Bottom six, we have extra players as well including Clifford and Richardson who we should both keep if possible.

Next year, that wing depth is gone very likely. No wonder we drafted Tanner Pearson, a LW.

But every piece we acquire to be a Black Ace very likely won't be ready for at least a year or two in the AHL. And this year we didn't have a 2nd or 3rd rounder. So we need to add depth...we can do this by adding at the top and trickling down or just acquiring that depth. The former, if we can afford it, is much more desirable.


Just remember these two things...it takes more than a year to prepare a replacement player and remove/not having just one key guy totally alters our team make up. We need to get guys we can plug in immediately for the next five years.

A lot of the guys we have down in the farm don't fit our team profile, style-wise and physical make up-wise.

- R


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