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-   -   How does the Schenn/JVR trade impact the D (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1215393)

tryce91 06-23-2012 04:38 PM

How does the Schenn/JVR trade impact the D
 
Timonen
Coburn
Grossman
Meszaros
Schenn
Lilja

All currently under contract for next season.
Carle is a UFA but rumored to be resigning on July 1st.
Bourdon is a RFA and in my opinion played well enough last year to deserve a 5-6th Dman spot.
Lilja would be the 7th dman id assume.

So who is the odd man out? Does the Schenn acquisition mean Matt Carle will not be resigned? Will Bourdon be moved? What about Gustafsson?

I can't see any of the top D-men being moved, so how does it all end up working?

Spongolium* 06-23-2012 04:44 PM

Money on Carle not being here.

If Schenn doesn't improve his footspeed, he's on the bottom pairing.

Otherwise

Timonen - Schenn
Coburn - Grossman
Mezaros - Bourdon

Alchemy 06-23-2012 04:51 PM

Schenn playing with Kimmo will help him grow.

He could definitely help him with the mental aspects of playing defenseman.

dingbathero 06-23-2012 04:54 PM

Do we go after Shultz now?

dookie88 06-23-2012 04:56 PM

If we don't re-sign Carle we might have the slowest D in the league.
And Carle isn't really a speedster.

tryce91 06-23-2012 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sm0ka47 (Post 51411117)
Schenn playing with Kimmo will help him grow.

He could definitely help him with the mental aspects of playing defenseman.

I agree, but seeing how Kimo is getting old and Schenn is young and needs to work, i was thinking that Kimo/Schenn would be our 2nd pair behind Coburn and Grossman.

edit: What i really meant was to allow schenn to grow, putting him on the top pair might be a bit too much pressure. Putting him on the 2nd pairing with a vet like Kimo might be more beneficial at least to start the season

SolidSnakeUS 06-23-2012 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dookie88 (Post 51411581)
If we don't re-sign Carle we might have the slowest D in the league.
And Carle isn't really a speedster.

Timonen, Coburn, Grossmann, Mez, Gus and Bourdon aren't really slow. Hopefully Schenn can shed a few pounds to be a bit faster.

Azumi* 06-23-2012 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS (Post 51412081)
Timonen, Coburn, Grossmann, Mez, Gus and Bourdon aren't really slow. Hopefully Schenn can shed a few pounds to be a bit faster.

Schenn will be faster this year for you, but the year after that he'll be noticeably faster.

Schenn was developed very badly in Toronto under Wilson/Burke. He put on tons of weight/muscle at the cost of speed.

Same thing happened to Kadri.

He'll be fine for you guys.

dookie88 06-23-2012 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SolidSnakeUS (Post 51412081)
Timonen, Coburn, Grossmann, Mez, Gus and Bourdon aren't really slow. Hopefully Schenn can shed a few pounds to be a bit faster.

Slow might have been the wrong word.
Let's say immobile.

While Coburn is a spectacular skater, Mez and Bourdon have good speed, but lack quickness.
Timonen really isn't what he used to be, he makes up for it with his positioning.
Grossmann und Schenn imo are really below average skaters.

We don't know how available Shea Weber is but I still think the ideal move would have been to package JVR for him and re-sign Carle. Move Mez, keep Schenn, Couturier and Giroux.

Carle-Weber
Coburn-Grossmann
Timonen-Bourdon

Schenn10 06-23-2012 05:15 PM

If Schenn can rebound,

Grossmann - Coburn
Kimmo - Schenn

Has the potential to be one of the best top 4's in the league. And Mesz with carle would by far be the best 3rd pairing in the league if carle is re-signed.

D corps is looking good.

dookie88 06-23-2012 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schenn10 (Post 51412863)
If Schenn can rebound,

Grossmann - Coburn
Kimmo - Schenn

Has the potential to be one of the best top 4's in the league. And Mesz with carle would by far be the best 3rd pairing in the league if carle is re-signed.

D corps is looking good.

Nothing really changed here.
I don't know if I'm alone on this one but I don't see Luke Schenn as a gamebreaker. He's decent dman now and could develop into an excellent shutdown defender in the mold of Regehr. But I don't see a whole lot of offensive upside there.
So where exactly did we improve our back-end?
In the short term, we could've added someone who could bring what Schenn brings by giving up far less and not add another long contract.

I'm probably sounding bitter because JVR got traded but I'm not.
It's just not making sense to me to add this player instead of rather sacrifizing more when you are already at it and go for a real gamebreaker.

46zone 06-23-2012 05:26 PM

I'd still like them to sign Garrison

Schenn10 06-23-2012 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dookie88 (Post 51413467)
Nothing really changed here.
I don't know if I'm alone on this one but I don't see Luke Schenn as a gamebreaker. He's decent dman now and could develop into an excellent shutdown defender in the mold of Regehr. But I don't see a whole lot of offensive upside there.
So where exactly did we improve our back-end?
In the short term, we could've added someone who could bring what Schenn brings by giving up far less and not add another long contract.

I'm probably sounding bitter because JVR got traded but I'm not.
It's just not making sense to me to add this player instead of rather sacrifizing more when you are already at it and go for a real gamebreaker.

At the trade deadline last year everyone thought we needed a guy on our back end who could clear the crease and add physicality to our D, well we just got him, and he's right handed.

Schenn is 22 sometimes D take awhile to fully develop, I'm willing to give him a shot to grow and be a stalwart on our back line.

Alchemy 06-23-2012 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dookie88 (Post 51413467)
Nothing really changed here.
I don't know if I'm alone on this one but I don't see Luke Schenn as a gamebreaker. He's decent dman now and could develop into an excellent shutdown defender in the mold of Regehr. But I don't see a whole lot of offensive upside there.
So where exactly did we improve our back-end?
In the short term, we could've added someone who could bring what Schenn brings by giving up far less and not add another long contract.

I'm probably sounding bitter because JVR got traded but I'm not.
It's just not making sense to me to add this player instead of rather sacrifizing more when you are already at it and go for a real gamebreaker.

Schenn is what we need. We don't need anymore offense. We need guys who can hold the back end down. That is where they improved. A physical defensive d-man that hits and blocks shots. Hes got a good shot and he can atleast make a nice first pass. He filled the void for the future and now. Kimmo will be gone next year. Then what? The trade for Schenn was needed.

G Money 06-23-2012 05:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dookie88 (Post 51413467)
Nothing really changed here.
I don't know if I'm alone on this one but I don't see Luke Schenn as a gamebreaker. He's decent dman now and could develop into an excellent shutdown defender in the mold of Regehr. But I don't see a whole lot of offensive upside there.
So where exactly did we improve our back-end?
In the short term, we could've added someone who could bring what Schenn brings by giving up far less and not add another long contract.

I'm probably sounding bitter because JVR got traded but I'm not.
It's just not making sense to me to add this player instead of rather sacrifizing more when you are already at it and go for a real gamebreaker.

r u really asking how we improved our back end? we added a dman with over a 100 more hits then any other dman on our team our d is soft at least we have one bruiser now and why r u bitter about jvr he was a 3rd liner on our team and he was going to be making 4+mil im glad he is gone

dookie88 06-23-2012 05:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schenn10 (Post 51413877)
At the trade deadline last year everyone thought we needed a guy on our back end who could clear the crease and add physicality to our D, well we just got him, and he's right handed.

Schenn is 22 sometimes D take awhile to fully develop, I'm willing to give him a shot to grow and be a stalwart on our back line.

And we got Grossmann who did exactly that.
Fair point about Dman taking time to develop. But Schenn never really posessed an offensive game that indicates him ever being a two-way thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by sm0ka47 (Post 51413923)
Schenn is what we need. We don't need anymore offense. We need guys who can hold the back end down. That is where they improved. A physical defensive d-man that hits and blocks shots. Hes got a good shot and he can atleast make a nice first pass. He filled the void for the future and now. Kimmo will be gone next year. Then what? The trade for Schenn was needed.

I don't see Schenn as a replacement for Timonen. Especially not as soon as next season.

Quote:

Originally Posted by G Money (Post 51414041)
r u really asking how we improved our back end? we added a dman with over a 100 more hits then any other dman on our team our d is soft at least we have one bruiser now and why r u bitter about jvr he was a 3rd liner on our team and he was going to be making 4+mil im glad he is gone

Hits are a) really not an indications of quality defense and b) one of the worst kept statistic in the sport of hockey.
We did have a bruiser in Grossmann who isn't a lesser player than Schenn at all right now.
I specifically said I'm not bitter seing JVR leave. I'd gladly would've traded him for the right price. Which in my mind for this organization would've been Weber, because as of right now, Timonen is still the closest thing to a #1 defender we have and imo Schenn doesn't have the all-around game to ever be one.

G Money 06-23-2012 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dookie88 (Post 51414833)
And we got Grossmann who did exactly that.
Fair point about Dman taking time to develop. But Schenn never really posessed an offensive game that indicates him ever being a two-way thread.



I don't see Schenn as a replacement for Timonen. Especially not as soon as next season.



Hits are a) really not an indications of quality defense and b) one of the worst kept statistic in the sport of hockey.
We did have a bruiser in Grossmann who isn't a lesser player than Schenn at all right now.
I specifically said I'm not bitter seing JVR leave. I'd gladly would've traded him for the right price. Which in my mind for this organization would've been Weber, because as of right now, Timonen is still the closest thing to a #1 defender we have and imo Schenn doesn't have the all-around game to ever be one.

so you would rather matt carle for a few more years? cuz come on we were never getting weber nobody was or is nashville is not that stupid ( rub this right in if they do tho plz ) i'll try out schenn over carle all day

Alchemy 06-23-2012 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dookie88 (Post 51414833)


I don't see Schenn as a replacement for Timonen. Especially not as soon as next season.


He doesn't replace his skillset but if Timonen was to leave the defense looks even worse if we didn't make a move to pick somebody up for now and the future. With Carle potentially walking and Pronger likely done for his career this was a need.

dookie88 06-23-2012 05:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G Money (Post 51415263)
so you would rather matt carle for a few more years? cuz come on we were never getting weber nobody was or is nashville is not that stupid ( rub this right in if they do tho plz ) i'll try out schenn over carle all day

Completely different types of players.
You need both to be succesfull.

And you really think Nashville doesn't think long and hard about turning their assets into value instead of losing them for nothing the moment Ryan Suter signs with Detroit and Shea Weber only accepts a one year deal?
You offer JVR, Mez and two firsts and you are at least in the conversation with them. Might add Bourdon or another pick and that's a hard offer not to take for one year of Weber.

I now it's speculation but I guess we'll see what happens with Weber.

LI Fly Guy 06-23-2012 05:58 PM

Weber and Luke were roommates in juniors. So that means he's definitely coming here. Right?

RoDu 06-23-2012 05:59 PM

Any Schultz rumors yet?

dookie88 06-23-2012 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sm0ka47 (Post 51415493)
He doesn't replace his skillset but if Timonen was to leave the defense looks even worse if we didn't make a move to pick somebody up for now and the future. With Carle potentially walking and Pronger likely done for his career this was a need.

I still think Carle will stay.

Coburn-Grossmann
Timonen-Carle

Isn't too bad and definately a better mix than

Coburn-Grossmann
Timonen-Schenn

RoDu 06-23-2012 06:04 PM

Timonen Carle is a horrid pairing, they do not compliment each other at all

flyersfan187 06-23-2012 06:05 PM

I wonder if there is any hope for Yandle now without giving up Schenn or Couts?

Yandle/Carle
Coburn/Grossmann
Kimmo/Schenn

that would be a great group of pairings.

G Money 06-23-2012 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dookie88 (Post 51415629)
Completely different types of players.
You need both to be succesfull.

And you really think Nashville doesn't think long and hard about turning their assets into value instead of losing them for nothing the moment Ryan Suter signs with Detroit and Shea Weber only accepts a one year deal?
You offer JVR, Mez and two firsts and you are at least in the conversation with them. Might add Bourdon or another pick and that's a hard offer not to take for one year of Weber.

I now it's speculation but I guess we'll see what happens with Weber.

what if he wants to be a FA no matter what plays 1 year then picks the highest bidder u really want to give up all that for 1 year player?


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