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-   -   The Offseason Thread Part X: Bobby, we're better than Philly! (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1216313)

Alvvays 06-24-2012 08:57 PM

The Offseason Thread Part X: Bobby, we're better than Philly!
 
Trade.

Killem Dafoe 06-24-2012 08:59 PM

Moar Ryan

NewYorkRangers89* 06-24-2012 09:00 PM

No trades, upgrade through free agency. Keep the core intact, don't make trades just because fans want new names on the roster.

Lundsanity30 06-24-2012 09:00 PM

Howson doesn't want Dubinsky as the main piece but dubi would be going back. Would you want umburger as the main piece if situations were reversed w gabby wanting out at 7.5?

Lundsanity30 06-24-2012 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers89 (Post 51472919)
No trades, upgrade through free agency. Keep the core intact, don't make trades just because fans want new names on the roster.

Parise? No. Suter? No. Doan? Not leaving phx, Whitney? Maybe. Jagr? Burned that bridge. List getting reallllly small to help our scoring...

NewYorkRangers89* 06-24-2012 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 (Post 51473001)
Parise? No. Suter? No. Doan? Not leaving phx, Whitney? Maybe. Jagr? Burned that bridge. List getting reallllly small to help our scoring...


Suter? A defenseman? LOL how will he help us score goals??? Who said Doan isn't leaving Phoenix? Who wants Jagr anyway? Whitney is possible, you forgot about a few other guys tho, Stempniak, Ponikarovsky, there are a few guys out there who can help out in the top 6. Just because they wouldn't make the headlines on the NYPost doesn't mean they won't help us. You are just dying for a big name no matter how bad the contract is :cry:

Lundsanity30 06-24-2012 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers89 (Post 51473147)
Suter? A defenseman? LOL how will he help us score goals??? Who said Doan isn't leaving Phoenix? Who wants Jagr anyway? Whitney is possible, you forgot about a few other guys tho, Stempniak, Ponikarovsky, there are a few guys out there who can help out in the top 6. Just because they wouldn't make the headlines on the NYPost doesn't mean they won't help us. You are just dying for a big name no matter how bad the contract is :cry:

Doan is a phx guy everyone expects him to sign there. Whitney would help. The others are no better than what we already have

gravey9 06-24-2012 09:08 PM

Cash For Nash...

The simpler way to look at it... if you use the Richards trade as an example.

If we assume that Richards and Nash are roughly equals in terms of impact on a game (within the proximity of each other at least). Then you have to look at the dollars and age and understand that the terms you're getting Richards is considerably more favorable than in which you're getting Nash.

The question is: how much different?

In reality: It's 2 mil in cap space/year. And 3 prime years.

If Nash is traded to a contender, those 3 prime years make a big difference. At 28, he has a window of 3 or 4 prime years (perhaps the Stanley Cup contention window). Whereas, with Richards at 25 - it's 6-7 years.

That's potentially double the amount of prime years to contend.

Thus, I'd argue the value of Richards (and his contract) is not only 2 million dollars cheaper but potentially twice as good in regards to age.

So, again, how much do you lower the price for Nash to correct for that? You might argue nothing. But I would argue... something. I would not make the same trade for Richards at 25 than I would Nash at 28. I just wouldn't. And so while Miller is not Schenn - he's projected as 2nd/3rd line center. And a 1st in next round's draft is considerably better than the last pick of the 2nd round in 2012.

Ave Maria 06-24-2012 09:09 PM

We are on thread 10 already? damn lol

Lundsanity30 06-24-2012 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers89 (Post 51473147)
Suter? A defenseman? LOL how will he help us score goals??? Who said Doan isn't leaving Phoenix? Who wants Jagr anyway? Whitney is possible, you forgot about a few other guys tho, Stempniak, Ponikarovsky, there are a few guys out there who can help out in the top 6. Just because they wouldn't make the headlines on the NYPost doesn't mean they won't help us. You are just dying for a big name no matter how bad the contract is :cry:

I want scoring that's it. Whether its through a trade or FA we need another top 6 guy

DutchShamrock 06-24-2012 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 (Post 51472921)
Howson doesn't want Dubinsky as the main piece but dubi would be going back. Would you want umburger as the main piece if situations were reversed w gabby wanting out at 7.5?

Kind of hard to work out a deal if you can't even fit him capwise. He's irrational on every single level. Howson has to come hat in hand, build a deal around Dubinsky because it's not working otherwise. He can play games all he wants, but it can't get off the ground until Dubi is in the deal.

Want? Gaborik at 2 more years demanding a trade? yeah, I suppose more than Umberger would be nice. But if it's getting real sour, that's not a bad starting point.

It's not communism. The weak get eaten. Howson is in a bad spot, tough s***. He has Nash signed to a contract, he's more than welcome to deal with that mess.

MorrisWanchuk 06-24-2012 09:11 PM

don't know what the answer is. but i think standing pat would be a mistake.

Lundsanity30 06-24-2012 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by o 16 Avery NYR o (Post 51473341)
We are on thread 10 already? damn lol

Whether we agree or disagree on our needs or how to go about them. It's the off season and its new York.

Ave Maria 06-24-2012 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 (Post 51473429)
Whether we agree or disagree on our needs or how to go about them. It's the off season and its new York.

Obviously.......

NewYorkRangers89* 06-24-2012 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 (Post 51473367)
I want scoring that's it. Whether its through a trade or FA we need another top 6 guy



I want scoring too but breaking up the core will not get that. If you want Nash the core will need to be broken up and he isn't worth it, his numbers are declining and it isn't due to a change of his game, he is just declining and it's sad that he is making 7.8 million. If Sather makes the trade i will be pissed because one guy will not solve every scoring problem we have, sorry to tell you.

Lundsanity30 06-24-2012 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchShamrock (Post 51473379)
Kind of hard to work out a deal if you can't even fit him capwise. He's irrational on every single level. Howson has to come hat in hand, build a deal around Dubinsky because it's not working otherwise. He can play games all he wants, but it can't get off the ground until Dubi is in the deal.

Want? Gaborik at 2 more years demanding a trade? yeah, I suppose more than Umberger would be nice. But if it's getting real sour, that's not a bad starting point.

It's not communism. The weak get eaten. Howson is in a bad spot, tough s***. He has Nash signed to a contract, he's more than welcome to deal with that mess.

Dubinsky has to go back even CBJ fans know that but to expect him as the main piece is insane lol. Hell include del zotto at least when though they don't need him, but at least he is a main piece

Lundsanity30 06-24-2012 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers89 (Post 51473503)
I want scoring too but breaking up the core will not get that. If you want Nash the core will need to be broken up and he isn't worth it, his numbers are declining and it isn't due to a change of his game, he is just declining and it's sad that he is making 7.8 million. If Sather makes the trade i will be pissed because one guy will not solve every scoring problem we have, sorry to tell you.

if u think he's declining fine I beg to differ. He just don't care anymore. 9 seasons on a crappy team will do that. His skill set has not declined imo but we can agree to disagree and BTW no on kreider or stepan but including one of them plus dubi IS a hockey trade. Fills both teams needs not just one

MorrisWanchuk 06-24-2012 09:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DutchShamrock (Post 51473379)
Kind of hard to work out a deal if you can't even fit him capwise. He's irrational on every single level. Howson has to come hat in hand, build a deal around Dubinsky because it's not working otherwise. He can play games all he wants, but it can't get off the ground until Dubi is in the deal.

Want? Gaborik at 2 more years demanding a trade? yeah, I suppose more than Umberger would be nice. But if it's getting real sour, that's not a bad starting point.

It's not communism. The weak get eaten. Howson is in a bad spot, tough s***. He has Nash signed to a contract, he's more than welcome to deal with that mess.

the draft and cap salary is kinda like communism. at least closer to that than capitalism.

NewYorkRangers89* 06-24-2012 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 (Post 51473671)
if u think he's declining fine I beg to differ. He just don't care anymore. 9 seasons on a crappy team will do that. His skill set has not declined imo but we can agree to disagree and BTW no on kreider or stepan but including one of them plus dubi IS a hockey trade. Fills both teams needs not just one



Wow, so because he plays for a bad team that gives him the right to play terrible? Doan played for Phoenix and they sucked for a few years but he still played his heart out. Iginla plays his heart out, Tavares plays his heart out, whats' your point? Seems like Nash likes to hide when things get tough and he can't carry a team. And you said including Stepan OR Kreider plus Dubi is a hockey trade? We trade Stepan then we have another hole at center, Kreider will not be traded so i won't even get into that but explain how trading Stepan will do us any good.

Lundsanity30 06-24-2012 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers89 (Post 51473503)
I want scoring too but breaking up the core will not get that. If you want Nash the core will need to be broken up and he isn't worth it, his numbers are declining and it isn't due to a change of his game, he is just declining and it's sad that he is making 7.8 million. If Sather makes the trade i will be pissed because one guy will not solve every scoring problem we have, sorry to tell you.

also, a guy like Nash would solve the majority of this teams scoring problems. They could no longer only worry about gaborik and Richards. At a good price, Nash would turn this offense into a damn good one

NewYorkRangers89* 06-24-2012 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 (Post 51473877)
also, a guy like Nash would solve the majority of this teams scoring problems. They could no longer only worry about gaborik and Richards. At a good price, Nash would turn this offense into a damn good one



All we needed was another 20 goals to be in the top 5 if i'm not mistaken. Why break up the team to add another 30 goals when you can use that money to sign guys like Whitney who will get you 20 goals AND someone vet leadership which we need IMO, and we won't have to lose any young guys.

Lundsanity30 06-24-2012 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers89 (Post 51473843)
Wow, so because he plays for a bad team that gives him the right to play terrible? Doan played for Phoenix and they sucked for a few years but he still played his heart out. Iginla plays his heart out, Tavares plays his heart out, whats' your point? Seems like Nash likes to hide when things get tough and he can't carry a team. And you said including Stepan OR Kreider plus Dubi is a hockey trade? We trade Stepan then we have another hole at center, Kreider will not be traded so i won't even get into that but explain how trading Stepan will do us any good.

it won't help us, but for a star like Nash that's not too much to ask for sorry. Yes though, we can't afford to give up either doesn't mean its not a hockey trade propossl

NikC 06-24-2012 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers89 (Post 51472919)
No trades, upgrade through free agency. Keep the core intact, don't make trades just because fans want new names on the roster.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers89 (Post 51473147)
Suter? A defenseman? LOL how will he help us score goals??? Who said Doan isn't leaving Phoenix? Who wants Jagr anyway? Whitney is possible, you forgot about a few other guys tho, Stempniak, Ponikarovsky, there are a few guys out there who can help out in the top 6. Just because they wouldn't make the headlines on the NYPost doesn't mean they won't help us. You are just dying for a big name no matter how bad the contract is :cry:

the answer doesn't lie in 15g scorers like Ponikarovsky and Stempniak or Boyes. I'd rather see them go after Semin who is a consistent goal scorer regardless if he doesn't fit the mold.

FA stinks. Over pay for 1 trick ponies like Gaustad? no way.

Sign Moen to replace Prust. Sign Semin. Go after Garrison if he doesn't resign in Florida. Package Dubinsky in a trade to upgrade.

imo this is or scenarios like it, are the only ways to improve without
major disruptions to the team.

Lundsanity30 06-24-2012 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewYorkRangers89 (Post 51473955)
All we needed was another 20 goals to be in the top 5 if i'm not mistaken. Why break up the team to add another 30 goals when you can use that money to sign guys like Whitney who will get you 20 goals AND someone vet leadership which we need IMO, and we won't have to lose any young guys.

I agree IF we could get a Doan or Whitney we would be ok at least until the deadline where we can re evaluate, but no way Doan leaves phx and I heard even though he's worried about the ownership, Whitney likes it there too

NewYorkRangers89* 06-24-2012 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 (Post 51473963)
it won't help us, but for a star like Nash that's not too much to ask for sorry. Yes though, we can't afford to give up either doesn't mean its not a hockey trade propossl



It is too much to ask for, explain to me what gives him the right to play terrible when other stars play on crappy teams and they give it their all, please tell me. And everything is a hockey trade because it's hockey.......it is an unrealistic hockey trade when you ask for 21 year olds like Stepan who put up 51 points with no scoring help and a kid like Kreider who came in the playoffs and basically put the team on his back, you don't trade guys like that for a guy like Nash just because YOU think he is a star, 7.8 million doesn't make you a star.


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