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-   -   Prospect Info: 2012 SJ draft review megathread (full info/scouting reports if available) *UPD: 6/27* (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1217803)

The Nemesis 06-26-2012 10:21 PM

2012 SJ draft review megathread (full info/scouting reports if available) *UPD: 6/27*
 

UPDATES & REVISIONS
June 27 - Added additional scouting material for Cliff Watson & revised his consolidated scouting brief (csb), Noted that Tomas Hertl will not make the jump to the CHL for further development.



Introduciton
Welcome back for the 2012 edition of the draft wrap-up thread. Each of the Sharks 6 picks from this draft is discussed in detail with as much info as I could cull from around the internet. I also plan on updating the thread in the future if more info becomes available.

Each player has a header graphic that displays all the pertinent information for them from the draft, and what follows is a collection of links, any scouting info or prospect discussion that I found, and a "consolidated scouting brief" that takes all that info and cobbles it together into a short snapshot of the prospect. Obviously though this requires me to have enough data to put such a report together.

That consolidated report also includes projections for high and low expectations for an NHL Career. Obviously the low mark for any prospect would be flaming out and never being anything of consequence. But that's too easy, so my low-end projection is one of what would be the lowest possible ceiling the player would have to hit in order to find gainful NHL employment on a regular basis.

Before we dive in though, let's look at the 2012 draft as a complete entity.

Oh, and before anyone asks, yes, '12 Prospect Avatars are coming. Soon. I promise.

2012 Draft fast facts

Here's a quick run-down of some of the facts, figures, oddities, and random data about the 2012 draft.
  • Not counting picks acquired in trade, the 17th overall pick is the highest that the Sharks have picked in the first round since the Crosby Draft in 2005, and the highest that they've picked based solely on the preceding season since the team bottomed out in 2003 (the 05 draft was a full-round lottery, which is why the Sharks got to move up as far as they did.
  • 1st rounder Tomas Hertl was the first Czech the team has picked since 2004 1st rounder Lukas Kaspar.
  • 4th rounder Christophe Lalancette is the team's first Quebec-born and QMJHL-trained pick since Jason Demers in 2008 (2010 pick Konrad Abeltshauser was picked from the Q, but he wasn't born in Quebec). It's also the highest the team has picked a QMJHL player since taking Marc-Edouard Vlasic in '05's second round.
  • 5th round pick Daniel O'Regan was selected out of Massachusetts high school St. Sebastian's. This isn't the first time the Sharks have picked a player from that school. 2002 1st rounder Mike Morris was taken from that same school
  • If you count O'Regan as German based on being born in Berlin, he is the first German taken since Dominik Bielke in 2009, and the first German forward since Kai Hospelt in 03.
  • It's now been 4 years since the Sharks picked a goaltender in the draft, the longest such stretch for them in the team's history. Previously, the longest they went without picking a goalie was 3 years (1997-1999). The last goaltender the Sharks selected was Harri Sateri in 2008.
  • For the 3rd straight year, the Sharks selected more players on a US collegiate development track (3) than a Major Junior development track (2). The last time the team had more CHL players than NCCA/pre-NCAA players was 09 (3 CHLers to 1 player on the US-NTDP)
  • The team hasn't picked a WHL player since 2009 (Marek Viedensky) and hasn't picked a western Canadian-born WHL player since Tyson Sexsmith and Frazer McLaren in 08.
  • Though not born in Sweden, Joakim Ryan is the first Swedish national the team has picked since Patrik Zackrisson in 07.

Additional links & Info
You'll find some info from the draft here which could not be sorted or categorized for the individual players:

SJSharks.com Draft review with video clips


THE PICKS (NOTE: The header graphics have multiple "pages" of info. They shift back and forth every 5 or so seconds. Just watch them for a few seconds and you'll see what I mean)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...12-1-Hertl.gif


Player Notes
  • Played for ex-NHLer Vladimir "Rosie" Ruzicka with Slavia Praha
  • 11-12 Czech Extraliga Rookie of the Year
  • His Extraliga scoring totals are the highest for a jr age rookie since Jiri Hudler's rookie Czech league campaign in the early 2000s
  • Member of the Czech team for the 2012 World Junior Hockey Championship, tying for the scoring lead with 3 goals and 5 points in 6 games.
  • Represented the Czech Republic in international tournaments every year since 2008-09
  • Recorded 3 goals in 12 games in the Czech Extraliga playoffs in 2012.
  • Tied for the highest score in the VO2 Max test, and tied for 2nd in the Hand-Eye Coordination Drill at the draft combine.
  • Hertl was not selected in the CHL import draft on June 27. As a result, he will continue playing for Slavia Praha until the Sharks decide to bring him over for AHL/NHL duty.

Consolidated Scouting Brief
Strengths:Excellent hockey sense and puck control. Effective shot. Capable of being a playmaker or a scorer. Responsible 2-way player. Concerns about his skating have led to his quickness and agility being underrated.
Flaws:Awkward skating stride leading to below-average speed.
High-End Career Projection:Solid #2 center who plays in all situations.
Low-End Career Projection:His skating holds him back and he becomes 3rd line C with offensive pop who doesn't hvae the speed to create offence in a top 6 role.
Individual Scouting Information

TSN's Craig Button via Bob McKenzie's final draft rankings:

Quote:

Tomas is a very effective and efficient center. He takes a cerebral approach which finds him in proper position on the ice but always ready to take advantage of opportunity. He forces opponents into mistakes without the puck and when he gains the puck, his awareness, vision and puck skills allow him to threaten offensively. He is a very good passer but given the opportunity to shoot, he can be dangerous. He may not possess high end speed but he has good quickness and agility and when combined with his very good sense, he's able to play at the higher and quicker pace necessary. He uses his body to protect the puck and he is not easily separated from it because he has a determination in his game that doesn't allow himself to be negated. He's a center that uses his wingers very well and will get their strengths into the game. He's very adaptable and he's able to contribute even when he's not scoring because he values the different areas of the game and understands that contributions of all kinds, help a team win.
EliteProspects.com scouting comment

Quote:

A highly skilled offensive player with impressive hockey sense and puck control. Passes the puck comfortably and has a pretty good shot. Soft hands. Not a very good skater, however. (EP 2012)
The Hockey Writers' blog write-up


Quote:

Hertl had an excellent U20s World Juniors for the Czech Republic and actually outplayed his more highly touted countryman Radek Faksa.

His play was very impressive in the Czech Extraliga this past season as a teenager with 25 points in 38 games. Those 25 points were enough for highest points by a junior player and the most by a junior in 9 years since Jiri Hudler. He was not surprisingly named Rookie of the Year.

Tomáš certainly did not hurt his draft stock in this year’s NHL Draft Combine as he finished tied for 1st in VO2 MAX testing and an impressive 2nd in the hand-eye coordination test.

He exhibits excellent puck protection skills, utilizing his strength and puckhandling. He doubles as a crafty goal-scorer and generous playmaker. He is an offensive catalyst with excellent vision and processes the game at a high level.

Hertl is solid and responsible defensively. Even without elite level speed he is able to effectively forecheck because of his ability to anticipate how the play will unfold.

Skating is cited as as a potential drawback to Hertl’s game. He has an unorthodox skating style, but is solid, agile and well-balanced on his skates. He’ll have to focus on improving his speed.
The Hockey Writers' scout's take

Quote:

“Tomas has had a fantastic season thus far. Actually, last year he was the top scorer in the Czech Junior League. This year he’s the top scoring junior player in the Czech Extraliga. In fact, he had just as many points as all other junior players combined at one point before sustaining a shoulder injury. At this tournament, in the tough games where the team was losing focus here and there, he continued to do all the little things well. He’s strong on the puck down low and certainly his skill level and his size; the way he can withstand contact and still hold onto the puck and make plays is impressive. He sees the ice so well. I’m really excited about his future.”
TheScoutingReport.org's final draft rankings

Quote:

Hertl had a very productive season playing in the Czech Extraliga for Slavia Praha as well as seeing national duty at the U20 level. Hertl is an interesting prospect who has good size and some solid offensive upside. He’s an unconventional skater with a bit of an awkward stride, but Hertl still has solid speed and agility. He forechecks well and does a good job of understanding his responsibilities in all 3 zones and is pretty complete at this age. Offensively, he has the potential to be a 20/20 type player consistently in the NHL and possibly more during his prime seasons while being an effective two-way player.
TheScoutingReport.org's midseason draft rankings

Quote:

Hertl had a very productive first half to the season and may be even underrated at #20 in our rankings. Playing in the Czech Extraliga on a weak team, Hertl has worked his way up the depth chart and been an effective offensive contributor for the team. Hertl has a good blend of size and skating ability and displays some grit and a willingness to finish checks. At the World Juniors, Hertl was one of the top Czech forwards and had a strong showing in the tournament. If Hertl can close out his season with continued strong play he will make a compelling case to be a Top 20 pick this summer.
Dobber Prospects

Quote:

Tomas Hertl is an immensely skilled pivot who currently plays in the Czech Extraliga. Blessed with nifty hands and an accurate shot, Hertl is always a threat to score or set up a teammate when he's in the offensive zone. In addition being among HC Slavia Prague's top producers, he notched five points in six games at the 2012 World Junior tournament in Calgary and Edmonton.
Last Word on Sports blog

Quote:

Hertl is an excellent two way player. He was also very effective on faceoffs in the World Juniors. A key penalty killer on the squad, he shows good positioning and instincts in the defensive zone. He is a conscientious backchecker who uses his size, strength and active stick to keep defenders to the outside. Hertl certainly projects to have good defensive skills. Hertl has the potential to be a top 6 centre in the NHL. He'll be a bit of a project as his skating and his shot need a little bit of work, but his other skills are well developped. We would compare Hertl's potential to become a player similar to Martin Hanzal of the Phoenix Coyotes.
Ralph Strangis' "Defending Big D" Blog

Quote:

Tomas Hertl is one of two Czech forwards to likely go within the first round. He is a talented playmaking forward who is also good in his own end. He plays with plenty of physical edge and grit and is willing to go into the dirty areas of the ice to get the puck. He has been likened to Tomas Holmstrom in the manner in which he stands in front of the net and his ability to find the ugly goal in the crease. His offensive vision is excellent and he can check all of his options quickly before making the best play.

However his biggest weakness is his skating. If his skating was improved he would certainly reach the NHL and most likely be a top six forward. He has a lumbering skating style and he is very slow out of the gates. He also has an unfortunate tendency to attempt to do everything by himself. If he can improve his skating Tomas Hertl definitely has the playmaking potential to become a top six forward in the NHL. However he is most likely suited to a second line centre or top 4 winger.


More Links/Info


Hockeydb page
Eliteprospects page
Slavia Praha player page (in Czech)

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...-2-Tierney.gif

Pick Notes
  • This pick was received as compensation for not signing 1st round draft pick Patrick White. White was acquired in trade with Vancouver.
Player Notes



Consolidated Scouting Brief
Strengths:Versatile skillset, willing to adapt to role required. Good defensive presence and hockey IQ. Good on faceoffs
Flaws:Hasn't had a chance to show if his offensive tools are effective yet at the Jr level. Turnovers have been a problem
High-End Career Projection:versatile, all-situations #3 center
Low-End Career Projection:defensively responsible checking line forward.
Individual Scouting Information

HF poster and OHL blogger Brock on Tierney

Quote:

As I mentioned in a previous article, I felt like there were several players who really raised their stock with strong playoff performances, and Tierney was one. He's really come a long way since his rookie season, transforming himself from a fairly one dimensional offensive center to a very strong, hard working two way energy guy. He earned his place in the line-up and that was no easy task with the depth of young players London accumulated this year. It was either evolve or perish. Tierney can now be considered one of those guys who does all the little things well. I really like how he attacks the oppositions defense on the forecheck. He forces a lot of turnovers with his stick in the passing lane and he reads plays really well. He's not necessarily a physical force out there, but he works hard and gets results. His defensive game really improved over the course of the year and found that it really stood out in the playoffs, especially in the Niagara series. Best of all, I think the best it yet to come from him offensively. He can be creative with the puck, and I've seen him make defenders miss off the rush. This year, I think he set out to simplify his game to cut down on some of the offensive turnovers that plagued him as a 16 year old. As he gains confidence (and strength on the puck), I could see him becoming a very strong offensive center too, as he has the vision, creativity and hands for it.
Tim Burke quote via the Merc blog

Quote:

Tierney was only a fourth-line center, but that didn't deter the Sharks because of the strength of London's program.
"He was a good younger player on a real good team that had a lot of good players," Burke said. "He should be able to step up into another role next year."
Tierney said he patterned himself after Parise or Chicago's Dave Bolland.
"Guys like that who work hard, can play both ends, good on draws and can also score," he said.
self-evaluation from a CHL blog, reposted on Fearthefin

Quote:

"Obviously getting stronger and developing a better shot are big things. The one area I really want to improve is my faceoffs. It's a key part of the game and that's a little thing that can get you to the next level along with shot-blocking. The guys at the next level know how to do it properly so that's one thing I need to improve on."
TheProspectBlog report

Quote:

Tierney is another forward who is a little underrated in my books. He is an intelligent forward who shows good three zone positional play, and is one of the Knights better faceoff men. He has some underrated skill, and shows good overall footwork and mobility. He may not have a lot of room to grow as far as his skill set goes, but his intelligence makes up for that. He projects out as smart two way centre at the next level


More Links/Info


Hockeydb page
Eliteprospects page
London Knights roster page


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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...Lalancette.gif

Pick Notes
  • This pick was acquired in trade with Chicago. In exchange, the Blackhawks received a 7th round pick in the 2012 draft (#191, previously acquired from Tampa Bay in the trade that brought in Dominic Moore) and the Sharks' 4th round pick in 2013.
Player Notes



Consolidated Scouting Brief
Strengths:Versatile and capable of playing a two-way game. Has good speed and good vision for playmaking.
Flaws:lacks strength. Needs to add weight to slender frame.
High-End Career Projection:3rd line winger with offensive pop.
Low-End Career Projection:checking line winger who can play a defensive role, but lacks the strength to get regular minutes or prime assignments


Individual Scouting Information


quote from the Merc blog


Quote:

Burke described Lalancette as a "real solid, two-way guy," and the teen-ager himself used the same phrase in describing his game, adding: "I have to work on my strength.
self-evaluation appearing in Kevin Kurz' CSN blog

Quote:

“I’m a two-way player with great vision and good speed,” he said, before adding he’s like to work on his “first three strides up the ice, and my strength.”
Hockey's Future profile

Quote:

A rookie this season, Lalancette did not look out of place and quickly acclimated himself with the QMJHL. A skilled playmaker, his on-ice vision immediately established him as a valuable contributor at both ends of the ice. Though he needs to continue to add strength to his frame, Lalancette's versatility and hard work serves him well.


More Links/Info
Hockeydb page
Eliteprospects page
Acadie-Bathurst Titan roster page (may default to French, not sure)


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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...2-4-ORegan.gif


Player Notes
  • O'Regan was born in Germany while his father, Tom O'Regan was a player for Berlin in the German Bundesliga. He moved back to Needham, Ma. in the late 90s after his dad's playing career was over.
  • Regan played 7 games with the US National Development Program's team in the USHL in 11-12 and participated in the 2011 Ivan Hlinka Memorial Tournament. As this is not an official IIHF tournament, O'Regan could still decide between playing internationally for either the USA or Germany.
  • Brother Tommy O'Regan plays for Harvard University, and is a teammate of Sharks 2011 draftee Colin Blackwell.
  • O'Regan is committed to Boston University for 2012-13. He will then be teammates of fellow Shark draft pick Matt Nieto (provided Nieto does not turn pro in the mean time)

Consolidated Scouting Brief
Strengths:Some playmaking ability. Capable player in all 3 zones.
Flaws:Size. It's always tough to gauge high school players because of the level of competition.
High-End Career Projection:Joe Pavelski-like two-way center with good offensive skills
Low-End Career Projection:I'm breaking my own rule, but basically if he doesn't have the skill to play at least a 3rd line role, chances are he's an AAAA-level player who mostly plays in the AHL and gets sporadic, brief NHL callups. think Darren Haydar.


Individual Scouting Information


Was compared to Joe Pavelski during the NHL Network's Day 2 draft coverage.

O'Regan's self-evaluation via the merc blog

Quote:

"Playmaking center," is how the draft pick described himself. "I think I work hard in all three zones, but my main job is probably distirubting the puck -- making plays, being creative offensively."
Burke quote in the Globe & Mail (Canadian nationally distributed paper)

Quote:

“He’s not the biggest guy but he plays above his size,” Burke said. “He’s one of those guys we didn’t move up to take and we were lucky. We thought he might fall because of his size.”
Self-eval quote in Kurz' CSN blog

Quote:

A smaller player, he’d like to model his game to that of Joe Pavelski.

“He’s fast, he works real hard, and he’s not a big guy. That’s what I’m going to try to be,” O’Regan said.

“I’m not the biggest guy on the ice, but I try to work hard in all three zones and try to be a playmaking center.”

He has some specific facets to his game he’s like to improve upon in college.

“I could always work on my strength because I’m not a big guy, but other than that I guess my shot and speed I could always work on.”
More Links/Info
Hockeydb page
Eliteprospects page



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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...2-5-Watson.gif

Pick Notes



Player Notes
  • Watson is committed to Ohio State Univeristy for 2012-13. He will potentially be a teammate of Sharks 2010 draftee Chris Crane
Consolidated Scouting Brief
Strengths:Rugged, stay-at-home defenceman with a mean streak. Willing to drop the gloves. Projectable frame at 6'2 and a shade under 200 lbs. Good defensive awareness and positioning. Was very highly regarded coming out of high school.
Flaws:Basically no offensive skill to project to the next level. Average at best skater. Poor hands. His -13 was near the bottom of the league among d-men, which is concerning considering Sioux City was not an awful defensive team.
High-End Career Projection:mid/bottom pairing defensive defenceman and PKer who can play with a nasty edge.
Low-End Career Projection:#7 d-man/willing fighter to plug in against tougher, more physical teams.


Individual Scouting Information


Self-evaluation quote in the Merc blog

Quote:

"I'm more of a stay-at-home defenseman, good first pass, good stick and physical in front of my net, physical on the ice in the corners and stuff," said Watson before saying others have likened his style to that of Pronger.
By the way, that "stuff" includes a willingness to drop the gloves.
"Absolutely," said the Wisconsin native without hesitation. "I'm not really against that."
More self-eval quotes, this time from Kurz' CSN blog

Quote:

A stay-at-home type, Watson, a Sheboygan, Wisconsin native, compared his game to a player Sharks fans love to hate.

“Growing up, a lot of guys have told me I play like Chris Pronger,” Watson said. “I like to live up to that, and try to play like a big guy."

“I’d say I’m a stay-at-home defenseman with a little bit of offensive ability. Sometimes I find that spot and get up in the play, but mostly just a good stick and first pass kind of guy. Physical in front of the net, protect the goalie, that kind of stuff.”
United States of Hockey blog post:

Quote:

Watson came into this season with a lot of intrigue. NHL Central Scouting listed him as an A-rated prospect on its 2012 Watch List after spending last season in the Wisconsin High School league with Appleton United. The big defenseman at 6-2, 195 appears to be going through an adjustment period heading into the USHL. That said, I took his performance with a grain of salt. It’s a huge leap from high school hockey to the USHL, so it’s hard to fault Watson for needing some extra time in the early stages of this season.
He has that great size, but his skating appeared to be average and his hands a bit below average. He seemed to have really solid awareness and positioning as the game wore on, but Cedar Rapids’ speed definitely gave Watson fits. He posted a minus-4 rating against the RoughRiders.
While I don’t think Watson is anywhere near an A-rated prospect, I do think he has draft potential. He looks to be more of a mid-round guy because of his great size and a fair amount of upside. Hopefully, we’ll get a better idea of what kind of player Watson is when he adjusts to USHL play.

More Links/Info
Hockeydb page
Eliteprospects page
Sioux City Musketeers player page

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http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v2...t12-6-Ryan.gif

Pick Notes



Player Notes
  • Ryan is the son of former Swedish tennis pro Catarina Lindqvist. At her best, she was ranked #10 in the world.
  • Though he has tried out for the US National Development Program, he has instead chosen to represent Sweden internationally.
  • Was eligible for the 2011 draft and went unselected.


Consolidated Scouting Brief
Strengths:strong skater and offensive skill from the blueline. Good passer.
Flaws:Inconsistency. His tendency to play somewhat physical given his size could lead to injuries in the bigger, rougher pro game.
High-End Career Projection:2nd unit PP QB and bottom pairing #5-6 d-man.
Low-End Career Projection:M-A Bergeron type of journeyman PP specialist who can't find a team to stick with.
Individual Scouting Information

EliteProspects.com's scouting blurb

Quote:

Two-way defenseman with good hockey sense. Good on the powerplay. Reads the game well and has good mobility. Is an excellent skater and a quite all-round defenseman.
TheScoutingReport.org's 2011 draft rankings

Quote:

Ryan displays tons of high-end offensive talent. He’s a good skater who doesn’t slow down when he has the puck and attacks the blue line with speed. He has good vision and instincts to anticipate the open lanes to enter the offensive zone. Ryan passes well and has the creativity to open up the ice for his teammates. Defensively, Ryan seems to know the game and also plays with an edge usually seen by bigger players. There is enough upside to excite you but he has to be more consistent.
Two River times (local New Jersey paper) on Ryan
Quote:

Ryan is 5-10 and 182 pounds and with his strong skating skills, “does many things with uncommon ease,” his high school coach Ryan Bogart remembers. “He just is extremely talented and a player who was dedicated to our CBA program and his teammates.” Bogart describes Ryan as a natural skater and “smooth.” With nearly 17 years on skates, it’s not hard to see why.


Cornell Coach Schaefer has high praise for Ryan.
“He kills penalties, he’s on the power play and he’s made a great transition from juniors to college hockey.”


More Links/Info

Hockeydb page
Eliteprospects page
Cornell University player page


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In Closing

To other mods: If you come across other scouting info or useful links for the drafted players, feel free to add it to the appropriate place in this post.

To everyone else:
I am not a scout. Nor do I pretend to be one or play one on TV. The scouting briefs are my own words based on other available information that has been included in this post. If you have conflicting information or projections and can make a compelling case as to why your opinions on the relevant players should carry weight, let me know and I'll be happy to alter what is written to reflect the new info.

I will continue to update this thread with additional info as I can find it.

*All stats and figures are courtesy of eliteprospects.com. All quoted information is courtesy of the sites linked to above the quote. No rights infringement is intended. The views expressed in this post are not representative of those belonging to the San Jose Sharks, their employees, or parent/affiliate organizations except where expressly noted. All information is current as of the date this thread was originally published (June 26, 2012). I take no responsibility for any broken links or changes in redirect address of the links contained in this post. They were all functioning and correct as intended as of the creation of this post. Scouting Brief career projections are purely my own creation and opinion and are not meant to be taken as the consensus opinion of the hockey community, San Jose Sharks organization, professional scouts, or Hockey's Future. I am not responsible for your own raised expectations regarding any players discussed within this post in the event that said player fails to make good on the projections given. If you really took the time to read all of this fine print, either you have a lot of free time on your hands or you have a weird masochistic appreciation for fine print. Don't worry, in either situation I won't judge. At least not to your face.*

The Nemesis 06-26-2012 10:25 PM

Yeah, neither Tierney nor Ryan were at the draft, so that's why they have random other pics instead of the draft portrait shot like the other 4 guys. Tierney specifically said in an interview that he was at home in Kenwick because his agent tells players not to go if they're not sure-fire 1st rounders. And O'Regan's graphic has a BU logo backer because St. Sebastian's doesn't have a sports logo that I could find, just their school crest (and he'll be at BU next season anyway)

JayP812 06-26-2012 10:26 PM

Wow, great work Nem! Really hope we get to see these guys soon.

The Nemesis 06-26-2012 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JayP812 (Post 51580831)
Wow, great work Nem! Really hope we get to see these guys soon.

Soon would be extremely relative. At the least, Hertl is probably a year away, if not 2.

As for the rest, I doubt you see any of them in even the AHL for 2-3 years.

I toyed with having ETAs on each player, but really with most except Hertl it's a guessing game, and suggesting they'll all play at least 3 years of college seems like a cop-out.


Also I fully expect people are going to say I'm being generous with my career projections. either because a) they don't read the preamble where I say that the low-end ones represent the absolute minimum they would make it into the NHL as (because putting "he'll bust" as a low is boring) or b) they expect that it's far too optimistic to project any sort of NHL career for mid/late rounders.

Kitten Mittons 06-26-2012 10:31 PM

Quote:

Tied for the highest score in the VO2 Max test, and tied for 2nd in the Hand-Eye Coordination Drill at the draft combine
That's really impressive by Hertl.

The Nemesis 06-26-2012 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kitten Mittons (Post 51581029)
That's really impressive by Hertl.

It is. He wasn't in the top 10 for VO2 Max test duration, but that's less important from my perspective because who in the NHL really needs to be able to go balls out for 13-15 minutes?

I actually also just found this:

http://www.topendsports.com/sport/ic...sults-2012.htm

If the #s are accurate (it's a different link than the results I used for the above post) there's more Shark picks of note:

Lalancette tied for 7th in the body fat analysis, at 7.5%

O'Regan actually tested very well in a variety of areas. He was tied for 8th in the bench press test, completing 11 reps of the 150 lb weight (pretty impressive to be that high considering his size), he was also tied for 9th in push-ups, completing 37. And he was tied for 3rd in mean power output in the Wingate test (they stick you on a bike and have you pedal as hard as you can for a set time against a certain level of resistance).

that linked site says they culled their info from data pubished on NHL.com, but I can't find anything beyond the top 10s they list.

Wish they could have linked to complete testing data.

VP and GM 06-26-2012 11:02 PM

Nice Work Nem! Awsome.

Gene Parmesan 06-26-2012 11:28 PM

Good work Nem.

CommanderShepard15 06-26-2012 11:33 PM

i think some of your high end projections are a bit low imo.

if hertl improves his skating i see no reason why he cant be a #1 center, well not a high end one, think in the krejci mold.

lanlcette has top 6 winger projection should he build muscle.

now they may never reach that potential, they could certainly achieve it.

The Nemesis 06-27-2012 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CloweForbidzYou (Post 51583811)
i think some of your high end projections are a bit low imo.

if hertl improves his skating i see no reason why he cant be a #1 center, well not a high end one, think in the krejci mold.

lanlcette has top 6 winger projection should he build muscle.

now they may never reach that potential, they could certainly achieve it.

I erred on the side of undershooting projections. If anyone happens to take my word as that of an expert (and I have fine print warning against this), I'd rather they hold me accountable for painting a conservative picture than an overly optimistic one.

Fatturdmanshark 06-27-2012 03:50 AM

Awesome nem...seriously, threads with insight and info, graphics etc. Like this one, keep me comin back. hope to see Hertl in teal soon! I like Tierney a lot too.

StalockSuperfan 06-27-2012 04:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Nemesis (Post 51580757)
Yeah, neither Tierney nor Ryan were at the draft, so that's why they have random other pics instead of the draft portrait shot like the other 4 guys. Tierney specifically said in an interview that he was at home in Kenwick because his agent tells players not to go if they're not sure-fire 1st rounders. And O'Regan's graphic has a BU logo backer because St. Sebastian's doesn't have a sports logo that I could find, just their school crest (and he'll be at BU next season anyway)

Why would that be? That's a once-in-a-lifelime opportunity to go up there and take a picture with the jersey on, even if you go in a later round.

slocal 06-27-2012 05:20 AM

OOOoooh, pretty! :nod:

Thank you for putting this together from an honestly lazy fan.

RainbowDash 06-27-2012 05:55 AM

Nice work.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the VO2 test is the test where they test their endurance with the exercise bike, right?

The Nemesis 06-27-2012 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StalockSuperfan (Post 51591213)
Why would that be? That's a once-in-a-lifelime opportunity to go up there and take a picture with the jersey on, even if you go in a later round.

The reasons I've heard is that they (the agents) think it can be embarrassing for the player if they start to slide. There's always a chance that a guy pegged by scouts for the mid-rounds ends up undrafted.

Not sure of the exact reason, I just saw this:

Quote:

“I talked to my agent (Joe Resnick, who is also Rick Nash’s agent) and he told me if you’re not sure you’re going in the first round, it’s probably best not to go,” the London Knights centreman said. “Honestly, I had no clue what was going to happen. I was just hoping to be drafted”
http://www.lfpress.com/sports/knight.../19915771.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by UniversalRemonster (Post 51591811)
Nice work.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the VO2 test is the test where they test their endurance with the exercise bike, right?

pretty much. There are two significant bike tests they do: the Wingate test is where they put you on the bike, pedalling against a certain level of resistance for a set time to see how much power you can put out. The VO2 test is the one you see where the guy has the tube in his mouth and his nose pinched, and they have him go max effort for as long as he can. It tests endurance and cardio fitness by measuring how efficiently your lungs can supply oxygen to your bloodstream. It also has to do with how easily you are fatigued. If two runners tackle the same course of the same distance running at the same speed, the one with the lower VO2 max score is probably going to be more fatigued by the experience at the end.

VO2 Max gets measured in terms of both peak efficiency (in ml of oxygen transported per kg of body weight) and how long you last on the test. Hertl's score was for the former, not the latter. I can't find the exact number, but Duncan Keith during his draft year put up ridiculous #s on the test. Similar to elite tour cyclists.

If I'm not mistaken, VO2 max is the test that lots of guys admit to throwing up after they finish.

Fistfullofbeer 06-27-2012 12:45 PM

Thanks for the good work Nem.

I figured that you were trying to set the bar low even with the 'High-End Career Projection' but thanks for clarifying that.

That way it hurts less if they are complete busts .. :laugh:

The Nemesis 06-27-2012 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fistfullofbeer (Post 51603075)
Thanks for the good work Nem.

I figured that you were trying to set the bar low even with the 'High-End Career Projection' but thanks for clarifying that.

That way it hurts less if they are complete busts .. :laugh:

Pretty much. I think people have been extra hard on the issues of players like Doherty because the hype machine got away from us and there were people looking at him like "OMG he might be a difference maker in the NHL!" So I decided to play it conservative in estimating the high-end career projections so that we might be able to contain it. And like I said, the low-end ones are obviously optimistic becuase any prospect's low-end projection is that they're out of the game within 5 years.

I'm also going to be adjusting my Watson scouting report. I finally found some more info after realizing that I need to search for "Cliff Watson" instead of "Clifford Watson" (yes, I said "search". This thread is presented by Google for a reason :laugh:

The Nemesis 06-27-2012 05:29 PM

Tomas Hertl was not selected in the CHL import draft. So any thoughts that he'd end up developing on a major junior team are pretty much dashed. Not a big deal though, he's getting good competition against grown men in one of the better leagues in Europe.

In the end, the only drafted European of significance that was in the import draft was Oskar Dansk to the Erie Otters.

stalockrox 06-27-2012 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Nemesis (Post 51620853)
Tomas Hertl was not selected in the CHL import draft. So any thoughts that he'd end up developing on a major junior team are pretty much dashed. Not a big deal though, he's getting good competition against grown men in one of the better leagues in Europe.

In the end, the only drafted European of significance that was in the import draft was Oskar Dansk to the Erie Otters.

Hertl's agent said that his contract w/ Slavia "handcuffs" him from joining the CHL so him not getting drafted isn't a big surprise.

The Nemesis 06-27-2012 05:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stalockrox (Post 51621287)
Hertl's agent said that his contract w/ Slavia "handcuffs" him from joining the CHL so him not getting drafted isn't a big surprise.

yeah, I figured he wasn't getting picked, just wanted to note it for the records.

Kitten Mittons 06-28-2012 05:34 AM

But I'm assuming there's an NHL opt-out clause?

Howe Elbows 9 06-28-2012 09:56 AM

From what I've heard, Joakim Ryan might not be eligible to play for Sweden at the WJC's because of citizenship issues. Apparently Joakim was informed that he was not eligible to represent Sweden in the 2012 WJC's. There's some discussion here: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...1110407&page=3, I'll just copy and paste some relevant posts that someone called cagney has posted:

Quote:

Here's an explanation of what happened with Ryan from a reputable US news source...
----------
Thurs. 12/1/11

Ryan’s Dream Shot Down

Cornell freshman defenseman Joakim Ryan, a candidate for the Swedish National Junior Team, has been told by the IIHF that he is ineligible to participate in the games, which start Dec. 26th in Calgary and Edmonton, Alberta.

What the IIHF learned was that Ryan has never been rostered on a Swedish team for 24 consecutive months, reportedly a little-known requirement. Ryan did play minor hockey for Malmo, but was only on roster for 22 months.

Ryan, a dual citizen who speaks fluent Swedish, skated for Sweden in the U-17 Ivan Hlinka Tournament as well as in the World Junior A Challenge in Penticton, BC in Nov. 2010 (while with the Dubuque Fighting Saints). Neither of those tournaments, however, are IIHF-sanctioned.

This past April, Ryan, who had been guaranteed a spot, was unable to skate for Sweden in the U-18 World Championship as his team, the Dubuque Fighting Saints, were in the USHL playoffs (which they eventually won). The U-18 World Championship is, of course, an IIHF-sanctioned tournament. Once a player appears in an IIHF-sanctioned tournament with any particular country, he’s locked into that country permanently, i.e. dual citizens can’t jump back and forth. Interesting that it wasn’t an issue then, but is now. The World Junior rosters are probably vetted more closely than the U-18 rosters, but still…

At any rate, Ryan, who skated with Sweden at the Junior Evaluation Camp in Lake Placid, NY in August, can, since he’s a ’93 and has a year of eligibility remaining, either appeal the IIHF’s decision and try to play for Sweden again next winter, or try out for the U.S. National Junior Team.

For now, though, Cornell, which could lose forward Brian Ferlin and goaltender Andy Iles to the U.S. Junior Team, will at least have Ryan on hand for the Florida College Classic Dec. 29-30.

Still, losing an opportunity to play in the WJC so late in the game —especially on a technicality -- is a tough pill to swallow.

“You talk about a kick in the gut… holy cow,” said Ryan’s family adviser, Jim Troy. “He’s devastated. It’s not like he can now turn to USA Hockey and say ‘Here I am.’”

Ryan is a dual citizen by dint of the fact that his mother, Catarina Lindqvist, is Swedish. Lindqvist was a pro tennis player who twice reached the semis of a Grand Slam Tournament (the Australian Open, and Wimbledon), only to lose both times to Martina Navratilova. So you can see where Ryan, who has also represented Sweden in international tennis tournaments, gets his athleticism.

Ryan, who is 5’10”, 182 lbs., was passed over in last summer’s NHL Draft. In nine games this season for Cornell, he has a 4-3-7 line and leads rookie d-men in scoring.
------------
http://ushr.com/news/20111201

The IIHF rules seem to be slanted towards an emphasis on the country of a players development rather than any notion of national preference for the player when it comes to dual-citizens. The US has actually been on the wrong end of some of these rulings recently as well (Stefan Matteau and Alex Galchenyuk, though the former reportedly won his appeal and the latter has reportedly given up his Russian citizenship to help ensure his eligibility) and I'm sure it's extremely frustrating for the players even more so than the fans.

As a US fan, I wouldn't have a problem with Ryan representing Sweden despite the fact he's a product of the US development system. Samuelsson would be a little more annoying considering he spent a year in USA Hockey's NTDP program and has played for the US in an IIHF event.

At the same time I gather there's a real disconnect between what makes a person one nationality or another in America compared to Europe. The Samuelsson's might be 100% Swedish ethnically but in the US that doesn't stop them from being 100% American if they have citizenship. I remember hearing about Russian hockey announcers claiming the US had "stolen" Nick Bjugstad from Norway despite the fact he was born and raised in the US. I guess it goes to show there's no easy answer to these kinds of things but it's interesting to see as someone who's probably got a few dozen different ethnicities in his family lineage and considers himself "American" before any of them.
Quote:

I don't think it's 100% clear if the IIHF would have allowed him to play in last year's U18 tournament but rather conjecture on the source's part (I assume the "guarantee" they mention was from the Swedish federation to Ryan rather than from the IIHF to the Swedish federation). From what I've come to understand, every time an IIHF tournament is held there's a different group of people responsible for clearing eligibility. In the past the US has had players that were cleared to play that would have been deemed ineligible if the same rules applied to Ryan or a guy like Stefan Matteau had been applied. It seems that the IIHF may have been making an effort to tighten up their rules recently.

One thing I'm curious about is whether or now Ryan tried to appeal the decision or not. Matteau recently appealed the decision after being denied a previous appeal that happened before the recent U18's and the second appeal, after the tournament, was accepted. If Ryan did appeal and was declined and decided to try out for the US then I'd guess the matter is settled going forth and he's accepted that he's been deemed ineligible.

Truthfully, what I think the IIHF has to do is clarify their intentions in these matters and re-write their statues and bylaws to more accurately account for the complexities and variables of different cases.

The Nemesis 07-05-2012 08:42 PM

one last reminder bump to keep this thread up on page 1 for a day or two as I unstick it. Consider this the last chance to read the info and comment or ask questions before it sinks into the lesser pages and you have to hunt for it.

LeeIFBB 07-05-2012 09:54 PM

Well done. Thank you.

WineShark 07-06-2012 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Nemesis (Post 51582083)
It is. He wasn't in the top 10 for VO2 Max test duration, but that's less important from my perspective because who in the NHL really needs to be able to go balls out for 13-15 minutes?

I actually also just found this:

http://www.topendsports.com/sport/ic...sults-2012.htm

If the #s are accurate (it's a different link than the results I used for the above post) there's more Shark picks of note:

Lalancette tied for 7th in the body fat analysis, at 7.5%


O'Regan actually tested very well in a variety of areas. He was tied for 8th in the bench press test, completing 11 reps of the 150 lb weight (pretty impressive to be that high considering his size), he was also tied for 9th in push-ups, completing 37. And he was tied for 3rd in mean power output in the Wingate test (they stick you on a bike and have you pedal as hard as you can for a set time against a certain level of resistance).

that linked site says they culled their info from data pubished on NHL.com, but I can't find anything beyond the top 10s they list.

Wish they could have linked to complete testing data.

Thanks for doing this thread Nem. Really appreciate the work that went into it. If I did this much work, my body fat wouldn't be 4X that of Lalancette.


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