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-   -   TSN: All CBA talk goes here (NHL offers 50/50 deal - 82 game deadline passed) (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1217991)

joshjull 06-27-2012 07:26 AM

All CBA talk goes here (NHL offers 50/50 deal - 82 game deadline passed)
 
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=399319

Quote:

The NHL and NHL Players' Association are scheduled to kick off formal talks on a new collective bargaining agreement in New York on Friday, according to multiple sources.
Quote:

At this point, it's still a little unclear exactly where the major battle lines will be drawn. The NHL is expected to try and lower the players' take of overall league revenue from its current position of 57 per cent while the union will attempt to redesign the revenue-sharing system so that the wealthy teams are required to do a better job of supporting those that are struggling.
Quote:

The NHLPA is expected to unveil a negotiating team of more than 30 players when the executive board meetings wrap up Wednesday. Having a group that large at the table is one of many changes Donald Fehr has made since taking over the union in December 2010.

His presence and approach has been a breath of fresh air for long-time members.

"It's like we've been taught again what the definition of collective bargaining is and why there are unions and why people collectively bargain," said Chicago Blackhawks defenceman Steve Montador. "It's been a great reset."

http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/80...s-begin-friday

Quote:

Jamal Mayers said the canceled season seven years ago was a wakeup call.

"That was difficult as a player," he said. "No one wants to see that happen. Clearly, we're excited about the direction Don gives us and his wealth of experience."

The landscape is different this time.

The players are now being led by Fehr, the former head of the powerful baseball union
Quote:

Fehr has shown signs that he won't be a pushover.

The players association scuttled the league's plans to realign and switch from two three-division conferences to four seven- or eight-team conferences in January, because it was not consulted.

Now, they appear to be digging in.

"We're ready to have all guys be prepared to be involved," New York Islanders center John Tavares said. "I know a lot of the guys have been talking and asking questions and looking toward this. I know we're all going to be there together."

There also will be more regional meetings in Europe and North America in the next few months to educate the players.

"You've got to look out for yourselves and your players and your union," Brouwer said. "Obviously, we want to play hockey and we're going to do everything in our power to make sure that there's a season come September."

Fehr and the NHLPA will be a much tougher opponent this time around. I'm not hopeful this gets worked out for the season to start on time.

Paxon 06-27-2012 07:49 AM

Interested to see what bargaining points come to light from these early sessions

HiddenInLight 06-27-2012 07:49 AM

After the cancelled season last time around, you'd think they would have started negotiating sooner this time around. -_-;;

Sometimes these people have no common sense. If it took them so long last time, what makes them think they should wait so long now? Do they WANT to lose more money? -_-

Dixon Ward 06-27-2012 08:05 AM

is the tradition here "no contract, no work"? is there any precedent in pro sports of working under the terms of the expired agreement? never followed the ---pa/league negotiations enough to get a feel for it.

joshjull 06-27-2012 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dixon Ward (Post 51593927)
is the tradition here "no contract, no work"? is there any precedent in pro sports of working under the terms of the expired agreement? never followed the ---pa/league negotiations enough to get a feel for it.

If there is no deal they will not be playing

HiddenInLight 06-27-2012 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dixon Ward (Post 51593927)
is the tradition here "no contract, no work"? is there any precedent in pro sports of working under the terms of the expired agreement? never followed the ---pa/league negotiations enough to get a feel for it.

IIRC The NFL did it a few years back while they were negotiating the CBA before the current one.

joshjull 06-27-2012 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiddenInLight (Post 51594243)
IIRC The NFL did it a few years back while they were negotiating the CBA before the current one.

They used replacement players not members of the union.

rkorchinski 06-27-2012 10:05 AM

Unfortunate timing...
 
Coming off a great olympics, significant increase in national coverage (NBS Sports) and a Stanley Cup that saw an American captain win for the first time, this is really unfortunate timing.

The NHL has tremendous, untapped potential in leveraging the game to new viewers. In my opinion, the biggest obstacle is translating the game to TV. That was ESPN's big reason for the lowball offer. Given the improvements to TV's over the past 5 years, enticing the casual fan to watch the games at home, with limited commercials is the greatest opportunity. Anyone who posts regularly here is not the true target market for expansion. It is the casual fan that draws eyeballs.

Given the information above, it would make sense to restructure a mutually beneficial deal that will reward both the players and owners for increased market share and advertising revenue.

ZZamboni 06-27-2012 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkorchinski (Post 51598077)
Coming off a great olympics, significant increase in national coverage (NBS Sports) and a Stanley Cup that saw an American captain win for the first time, this is really unfortunate timing.

The NHL has tremendous, untapped potential in leveraging the game to new viewers. In my opinion, the biggest obstacle is translating the game to TV. That was ESPN's big reason for the lowball offer. Given the improvements to TV's over the past 5 years, enticing the casual fan to watch the games at home, with limited commercials is the greatest opportunity. Anyone who posts regularly here is not the true target market for expansion. It is the casual fan that draws eyeballs.

Given the information above, it would make sense to restructure a mutually beneficial deal that will reward both the players and owners for increased market share and advertising revenue.

:thumbu: welcome aboard :5:

BackGroundMusic 06-27-2012 10:37 AM

I'm generally pro-Union but at a certain point of profit, both sides should just dump the rest of their income into charity or something. The league doesn't make money without fans and whether the owners get 40% of the share or the players get 28% of the share doesn't matter if you ostracize your fans.

Just get the deal done and move on.

tsujimoto74 06-27-2012 11:54 AM

Fehr has said the players would be be willing to play the season under the terms of the old CBA while continuing negotiations if a new deal isn't reached by 9/15. Ball's in the NHL's court with that one...
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...cba-says-fehr/

whiplash 06-27-2012 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshjull (Post 51593113)
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=399319








http://espn.go.com/nhl/story/_/id/80...s-begin-friday






Fehr and the NHLPA will be a much tougher opponent this time around. I'm not hopeful this gets worked out for the season to start on time.

Anything more than a missed preseason is a portent of a doomed league. They cannot afford another fiasco like 04-05, especially since people just watched the NFL/PA hammer out a deal in time to save all of their games and the NBA/NBPA salvage most of a season.

haseoke39 06-27-2012 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 (Post 51603541)
Fehr has said the players would be be willing to play the season under the terms of the old CBA while continuing negotiations if a new deal isn't reached by 9/15. Ball's in the NHL's court with that one...
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...cba-says-fehr/

Good news, but you have to think the owners give up all their leverage without a lockout. If they go back to the old deal, how much are they going to get in concessions from players?

tsujimoto74 06-27-2012 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dixon Ward (Post 51593927)
is the tradition here "no contract, no work"? is there any precedent in pro sports of working under the terms of the expired agreement? never followed the ---pa/league negotiations enough to get a feel for it.


“There’s nothing magic about Sept. 15. The law is that if you don’t have a new agreement, and as long as both sides are willing to keep negotiating, you can continue to play under the terms of the old one until you reach an agreement,” [Fehr] said. “All I know is that in baseball, there were any number of occasions in which we played while the parties were continuing to negotiate.”

tsujimoto74 06-27-2012 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by haseoke39 (Post 51603653)
Good news, but you have to think the owners give up all their leverage without a lockout. If they go back to the old deal, how much are they going to get in concessions from players?

That may be true, but how much does the NHL lose by having another work stoppage? The TV networks they have contracts with sure won't be happy, and they burned enough bridges in that department last lockout that they can't really afford to do it again. Plus, it effectively stops all the momentum that they've built with increasing revenues. I think the NHL might lose more by having a work stoppage than by losing some leverage with the PA. The players already have the upper hand, imo, and just by giving a good faith statement like that, it's good PR for the players and makes the league look bad if they refuse.

joshjull 06-27-2012 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 (Post 51603541)
Fehr has said the players would be be willing to play the season under the terms of the old CBA while continuing negotiations if a new deal isn't reached by 9/15. Ball's in the NHL's court with that one...
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...cba-says-fehr/

Nice PR spin Mr. Fehr.

New Sabres Captain 06-27-2012 12:27 PM

Why wouldn't the league want to operate under the old (read: current CBA) for one more year if no new deal is reached? This was a deal that was by-and-large favorable to the owners. The league is making money...I don't think Bettman is as willing to have a lockout as last time.

joshjull 06-27-2012 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs (Post 51605357)
Why wouldn't the league want to operate under the old (read: current CBA) for one more year if no new deal is reached? This was a deal that was by-and-large favorable to the owners. The league is making money...I don't think Bettman is as willing to have a lockout as last time.

Because there would be zero leverage for the owners. The players would hold the hammer once the season started. They could pressure the owners right before the playoffs. If you remember Fehr pulled that in MLB.

New Sabres Captain 06-27-2012 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshjull (Post 51605603)
Because there would be zero leverage for the owners. The players would hold the hammer once the season started. They could pressure the owners right before the playoffs. If you remember Fehr pulled that in MLB.

I don't follow baseball...is this the strike season we're talking about?

At any rate, please fill in my gap in knowledge.

joshjull 06-27-2012 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs (Post 51605863)
I don't follow baseball...is this the strike season we're talking about?

At any rate, please fill in my gap in knowledge.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1856626


Quote:

When Seattle's Randy Johnson struck out Oakland's Ernie Young at 9:45 p.m. PDT on Aug. 11, 1994, baseball players walked off for what turned into the longest work stoppage in the history of major North American professional sports leagues, a 7-month marathon of acrimony that wandered through hotel meeting rooms, the federal courts and even the White House.

It canceled the World Series for the first time in 90 years, cost players millions of dollars and management about $1 billion. Games didn't resume until the following April 25, 3 weeks after an injunction was issued restoring the rules of the expired labor contract.

Matt Williams' opportunity to break Roger Maris' home run record ended the night of the strike -- he had 43, and he never had another chance to approach the mark. For Bob Welch, Lloyd McClendon, and Kevin McReynolds and 16 others, the night of the strike marked the final games of their big league careers.

WhoIsJimBob 06-27-2012 01:42 PM

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...ting-committee

31 players are a part of the negotiating committee????

:shakehead

Dixon Ward 06-27-2012 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tsujimoto74 (Post 51603665)
“There’s nothing magic about Sept. 15. The law is that if you don’t have a new agreement, and as long as both sides are willing to keep negotiating, you can continue to play under the terms of the old one until you reach an agreement,” [Fehr] said. “All I know is that in baseball, there were any number of occasions in which we played while the parties were continuing to negotiate.”

thanks for sharing. i'm very interested in watching this play out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Bob (Post 51609611)
http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...ting-committee

31 players are a part of the negotiating committee????

:shakehead

what's wrong with that?

WhoIsJimBob 06-27-2012 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dixon Ward (Post 51610765)
what's wrong with that?

Usually there is a smaller negotiating group and a larger group that gets to vote on the deal that the negotiating group hammers out.

Usually, the more people in the room for a negotiation like this, the longer it takes to get a deal done.

Kruschiki 06-27-2012 05:32 PM

Crap. I thought we had one more season. :cry:

Woodhouse 06-27-2012 05:59 PM

I wouldn't be opposed to this:
Quote:

Nick Cotsonika ‏@cotsonika
Hear owners want to limit contracts to six years.

Link: https://twitter.com/cotsonika/status/218099523954806784


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