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-   -   Speculation: Shea Weber (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1224155)

Jack de la Hoya 07-04-2012 01:12 PM

Shea Weber
 
LeBrun was just on TSN Radio in Toronto and said the following:

1) Poile and Nashville will go hard after Weber over the next few days and try to get him signed to a long-term deal.

2) He speculated that, if they can't get him signed long-term, the Predators would have no choice but to shop him for a "trade-of-the-year" type return.

3) He also said that an OS is unlikely, because Weber would realize that Nashville will match any offer. He suggested that, baring a long-term extension, the most likely outcome is that Weber signs his QO and Poile shops him.

Given all that, and given the Flyers natural interest in Weber, I thought it might make sense to start a thread for Weber-specific speculation, proposals, etc.

UPDATE: LeBrun's Column

Quote:

So what now?

For Nashville, it means trying to replace Suter on the blue line but more importantly, convincing captain Shea Weber (an RFA) to sign long-term despite Suter’s exit. That’s not going to be easy. And if Weber balks at a long-term extension this summer, Poile has no choice as far as I’m concerned: trade his rights.

Here’s hoping Poile can convince Weber to stay. The Predators, a well-organized franchise that does things the right way, deserve a break.
http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-are-teammates

FlyLife 07-04-2012 01:19 PM

Agreed, this is the next big step this offseason, if Poile can't get him resigned, he has to shop him. Can't let another Suter situation go down.

YuioIklo 07-04-2012 01:21 PM

I don't want to do some blockbuster trades, we have a lot of holes atm, and if we trade more players than we receive, we'll have even more holes to fill.

sg12lw 07-04-2012 01:23 PM

would love weber, but i say wait until next July and hope he's available

the asking price for him would be astronomical

nuclear reactor 07-04-2012 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sg12lw (Post 52103767)
would love weber, but i say wait until next July and hope he's available

the asking price for him would be astronomical

The whole point is he won't be available after the Suter situation..

With the Flyers track record of developing/acquiring young forward talent, I'd be willing to trade depth for a stud like Weber and then regrow the lost talent up front over his tenure. Scorers are also easier to acquire through free agency than #1 defensemen.

Brayden Schenn + Luke Schenn or Sean Couturier + 2013 1st

for starters

54drinking 07-04-2012 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeh82 (Post 52102597)
LeBrun was just on TSN Radio in Toronto and said the following:

1) Poile and Nashville will go hard after Weber over the next few days and try to get him signed to a long-term deal.

2) He speculated that, if they can't get him signed long-term, the Predators would have no choice but to shop him for a "trade-of-the-year" type return.

3) He also said that an OS is unlikely, because Weber would realize that Nashville will match any offer. He suggested that, baring a long-term extension, the most likely outcome is that Weber signs his QO and Poile shops him.

Given all that, and given the Flyers natural interest in Weber, I thought it might make sense to start a thread for Weber-specific speculation, proposals, etc.

EDIT: MODs, forgive this thread if it is out of line, but since there's a separate one for Ryan and Nash, this seemed logical.

Help me out here. Weber is a Group 3 UFA according to the NHL website. Why would the Flyers have to do any kind of deal with the Preds. Couldn't they deal directly with Weber?

facts 07-04-2012 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YuioIklo (Post 52103457)
I don't want to do some blockbuster trades, we have a lot of holes atm, and if we trade more players than we receive, we'll have even more holes to fill.

This, unless we can get a long term deal done it is pointless. So why would we give up so much for 1 year.

Jack de la Hoya 07-04-2012 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54drinking (Post 52105263)
Help me out here. Weber is a Group 3 UFA according to the NHL website. Why would the Flyers have to do any kind of deal with the Preds. Couldn't they deal directly with Weber?

Nashville controls his rights, so I'm not sure I follow.

Do you mean negotiate an offer sheet?

The Flyers could send Weber an absurd 12 year, $120 million contract, and Nashville, at this point, would probably still match it.

The only deal Nashville wouldn't match would be something like 1 year, $13 million--which is insanely stupid for the Flyers to do, since they would forfeit 4 first round picks for one (guaranteed) year of service.

EDIT: Sounds like something is wrong or mischaracterized on the website. Weber is RFA, not UFA.

Haute Couturier 07-04-2012 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54drinking (Post 52105263)
Help me out here. Weber is a Group 3 UFA according to the NHL website. Why would the Flyers have to do any kind of deal with the Preds. Couldn't they deal directly with Weber?

Weber is not going to sign if he wants to leave Nashville. He's not going to risk them matching.

hockeyfreak7 07-04-2012 01:46 PM

This could turn into a very interesting situation. I think Nashville will end up shopping Weber, and I think it's pretty clear he's not ready to commit long term to Nashville.

There are also still enough assets available in free agency (Mueller, Doan, Semin, Roszival) that we could fill any holes in the lineup that exist as a result of a Weber trade.

That said, unfortunately, a Weber trade likely starts with Schenn or Couturier. I dont think the brothers are leaving, and I know Homer is attached to Couturier (as we all are). So I dont really know what would happen next. I would imagine Coburn would be a necessity at this point as he carries quite a bit of value:

-Voracek
-Coburn
-MAB/Gus
-1st 2013
-1st 2014

for Weber


Then sign Mueller/Semin/Doan, Roszival, and a guy like Winnik if there's room, and go into next season with this:

Hartnell-Giroux-Schenn
Simmonds-Briere-Read
Talbot-Couturier-Mueller
Winnik-Homstrom-Rinaldo

Weber-Schenn
Timonen-Meszaros
Roszival-Grossman


To be honest, I'm not sure what I think of this. I'd almost rather hang onto our assets and go for the home run at the deadline or take a gamble on 7/1/13.

54drinking 07-04-2012 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeh82 (Post 52105729)
Nashville controls his rights, so I'm not sure I follow.

Do you mean negotiate an offer sheet?

The Flyers could send Weber an absurd 12 year, $120 million contract, and Nashville, at this point, would probably still match it.

The only deal Nashville wouldn't match would be something like 1 year, $13 million--which is insanely stupid for the Flyers to do, since they would forfeit 4 first round picks for one (guaranteed) year of service.

EDIT: Sounds like something is wrong or mischaracterized on the website. Weber is RFA, not UFA.

Sorry, I thought Unrestricted means he's free to do what he wants. If the Preds still have control of him I would think that would mean he was a group 2 player. If he was group two that would match up to what you said about the draft picks. Here's what I was looking at (scroll down to the bottom to see conditions)

Can see why I'm confused?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=636658

54drinking 07-04-2012 01:49 PM

LOL, nevermind, I was looking at the wrong line on the FA list. He's group 2. My bad!

Jack de la Hoya 07-04-2012 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 54drinking (Post 52106187)
Sorry, I thought Unrestricted means he's free to do what he wants. If the Preds still have control of him I would think that would mean he was a group 2 player. If he was group two that would match up to what you said about the draft picks. Here's what I was looking at (scroll down to the bottom to see conditions)

Can see why I'm confused?

http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=636658

It is at the bottom of the page.

He's Group 2 UFA.

Quote:


FREE AGENTS SUBJECT TO COMPENSATION AND RIGHT TO MATCH - GROUP 2

Players have been tendered a qualifying offer by their respective Clubs and are subject to draft-choice compensation and right to match. The draft choice compensation scale is based on compensation offered by the new Club:

OFFER COMPENSATION
$1,110,249 or below None
Over $1,110,249 to $1,682,194 Third-round choice
Over $1,682,194 to $3,364,391 Second-round choice
Over $3,364,391 to $5,046,585 First-round and third-round choice
Over $5,046,585 to $6,728,781 First-round, second-round and third-round choice
Over $6,728,781 to $8,410,976 Two first-round choices, one second- and one third-round choice
Over $8,410,976 Four first-round choices

54drinking 07-04-2012 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeh82 (Post 52106567)
It is at the bottom of the page.

He's Group 2 UFA.

hahahah yeah, I just posted that I oops'd.

YuioIklo 07-04-2012 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 (Post 52106179)
This could turn into a very interesting situation. I think Nashville will end up shopping Weber, and I think it's pretty clear he's not ready to commit long term to Nashville.

There are also still enough assets available in free agency (Mueller, Doan, Semin, Roszival) that we could fill any holes in the lineup that exist as a result of a Weber trade.

That said, unfortunately, a Weber trade likely starts with Schenn or Couturier. I dont think the brothers are leaving, and I know Homer is attached to Couturier (as we all are). So I dont really know what would happen next. I would imagine Coburn would be a necessity at this point as he carries quite a bit of value:

-Voracek
-Coburn
-MAB/Gus
-1st 2013
-1st 2014

for Weber


Then sign Mueller/Semin/Doan, Roszival, and a guy like Winnik if there's room, and go into next season with this:

Hartnell-Giroux-Schenn
Simmonds-Briere-Read
Talbot-Couturier-Mueller
Winnik-Homstrom-Rinaldo

Weber-Schenn
Timonen-Meszaros
Roszival-Grossman


To be honest, I'm not sure what I think of this. I'd almost rather hang onto our assets and go for the home run at the deadline or take a gamble on 7/1/13.

That's even more than we gave up for Pronger... and Weber isn't Pronger. And what if Weber doesn't want to sign longterm with us? It would be a huge risk and an overpayment imo.

GKJ 07-04-2012 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YuioIklo (Post 52106893)
That's even more than we gave up for Pronger... and Weber isn't Pronger. And what if Weber doesn't want to sign longterm with us? It would be a huge risk and an overpayment imo.

He's as close as he gets. Weber is going to be 27. Pronger was 35. Pay up.

hockeyfreak7 07-04-2012 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by YuioIklo (Post 52106893)
That's even more than we gave up for Pronger... and Weber isn't Pronger. And what if Weber doesn't want to sign longterm with us? It would be a huge risk and an overpayment imo.

I agree with you. Like I said, I dont think I could stomach giving up all of that.


That said, Voracek+Coburn++ would likely be the price we would have to pay in order to not give up Schenn or Couturier.

nuclear reactor 07-04-2012 01:58 PM

I wonder if the Flyers are crazy enough to offer a cap hit of $8,410,976 (the max for 2 firsts, a second and a third) over a ridiculous length well into Weber's 40s. Huge amount up front but still several million per year near the end. Nashville might balk. The league might balk though.

Jack de la Hoya 07-04-2012 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeyfreak7 (Post 52106179)
-Voracek
-Coburn
-MAB/Gus
-1st 2013
-1st 2014

That's too much, I think. I'd also assume that either Schenn or Couturier are absolute must-includes. I also think Nashville would need a roster defenseman back.

That said, it seems to me that the two most likely options are:

Couturier, Mezsaros, +

or

B. Schenn, L. Schen, +

Quote:

Originally Posted by nuclear reactor (Post 52107429)
I wonder if the Flyers are crazy enough to offer a cap hit of $8,410,976 (the max for 2 firsts, a second and a third) over a ridiculous length well into Weber's 40s. Huge amount up front but still several million per year near the end. Nashville might balk. The league might balk though.

Weber would never sign it, and if he did, Nashville would match.

Jack de la Hoya 07-04-2012 02:00 PM

Delete

YuioIklo 07-04-2012 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GKJ (Post 52107125)
He's as close as he gets. Weber is going to be 27. Pronger was 35. Pay up.

I know, but even considering his age... Weber is a great defenseman, no doubt about that, probably the best in the NHL atm (we could argue for Karlsson, Doughty has more potential maybe, etc), but I don't think it would be a good idea to give up that much for him. If there was a lot of great FAs that we could get that could do a decent job replacing them, maybe, but atm...no.

54drinking 07-04-2012 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeh82 (Post 52107509)
That's too much, I think. I'd also assume that either Schenn or Couturier are absolute must-includes. I also think Nashville would need a roster defenseman back.

That said, it seems to me that the two most likely options are:

Couturier, Mezsaros, +

or

B. Schenn, L. Schen, +



Weber would never sign it, and if he did, Nashville would match.

I don't see Couts going anywhere. They got Kryptonite for Malkin with him on the roster come playoff time.

turkinaa 07-04-2012 02:05 PM

At this point I think the only thing I would really give up for Weber are picks and with a player over giving up young decent forwards (like the Pronger deal). With losing some salary next year since Kimmo is 50/50 on retiring, we can probably afford Weber's salary. It's getting Weber here that is the issue and we've seen where giving up either young players or picks leaves us in the future and this is probably the only way I would feel comfortable giving up picks is getting Weber and signing him to an extension. We cannot rely on trades and signing free agents alone to build a team.

hockeyfreak7 07-04-2012 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeh82 (Post 52107509)
That's too much, I think. I'd also assume that either Schenn or Couturier are absolute must-includes. I also think Nashville would need a roster defenseman back.

That said, it seems to me that the two most likely options are:

Couturier, Mezsaros, +

or

B. Schenn, L. Schen, +

I dont think there's any chance of Couturier moving.

As for the Schenns, I highly doubt it. Luke hasnt even played a game for us-- there is absolutely no way he would be traded this summer.


So that leaves us with our next most valuable pieces. Voracek and Coburn.

Honestly, I think that's a better deal for NSH than Couturier+Meszaros anyway. They cant afford to gamble on Couturier. Voracek reasonably projects to be a 60+ point player. Couturier could be, or he could just be the next David Legwand. Nashville shouldnt be making deals for Weber based on a player like Couturier, imo.

Flyerfan4life 07-04-2012 02:08 PM

Hobbit, strait up trade..


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