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A Clerk 07-04-2012 07:24 PM

This Coming Years Defense
 
What is everyone's thoughts on the D core for the upcoming season. Weaker or tougher than last year? Are there any additions you would like to see?

Jack de la Hoya 07-04-2012 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Clerk (Post 52125791)
What is everyone's thoughts on the D core for the upcoming season. Weaker or tougher than last year? Are there any additions you would like to see?

LOL.

You might check the offseason thread, the 2012-2013 roster thread, or the 2012 Free Agency Frenzy thread. There's opinions all over the place.

But, basically, there are really only three major scenarios at this point:

1) We more or less stand pat, baring, perhaps, a minor addition for the third pairing.

2) We bring back Matt Carle.

3) We trade or otherwise acquire Shea Weber.

I can't really imagine us trading for someone like Enstrom--not before the deadline, at least. Other options seem far-fetched.

Nuclear 07-04-2012 07:31 PM

I don't think Homer is finished yet, but as of right now, we're still losing Carle's 38 points on defense. If Luke Schenn equals this year's totals, he's still around half the offensive output of Carle.

I hope we make some sort of move, even if it isn't that top tier UFA that we all want on the back end.

As of now I see:

Timonen - Coburn
Grossman - Schenn
Meszaros - Gus/ MAB/ Gervais?
Lilja

Timonen really wore down at the end of the year/ playoffs. He really shouldn't be playing first pairing minutes if we want to have him more fresh for the most important games. I'm not sure what we can do UFA wise.

If we add a defensive forward or two, it could only help the back end.

MsWoof 07-04-2012 08:32 PM

I wonder if there is interest in Scuderi. There was talk about him possibly being moved by the Kings a few days ago but it got lost in all the other conversations.

flyersfan187 07-04-2012 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Clerk (Post 52125791)
What is everyone's thoughts on the D core for the upcoming season. Weaker or tougher than last year? Are there any additions you would like to see?

Weaker. I don't seed how they would be tougher? Kimmo is another year older and has been playing too many minutes the last couple of seasons in a high tempo system. Pronger isn't coming back. Coburn and Grossmann will be solid. Mez was terrible and hopefully can rebound. Schenn is an unknown but seems to be more of a defensive d-man. If Carle leaves for another team then the Flyers lose their most consistent minute man out of their D's and who can replace that out of what we have? I really don't know who would. With that being said, there is no way Homer is done yet. He will try his all to trade for a top D before the start of the season.

flyersfan187 07-04-2012 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsWoof (Post 52129563)
I wonder if there is interest in Scuderi. There was talk about him possibly being moved by the Kings a few days ago but it got lost in all the other conversations.

Would love to have Scuderi on this team. He isn't flashy at all, he just seems to always play hockey the right way and not make many errors.

MsWoof 07-04-2012 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyersfan187 (Post 52130361)
Would love to have Scuderi on this team. He isn't flashy at all, he just seems to always play hockey the right way and not make many errors.

He was rock solid with Doughty. Also tough as nails, he took that hit into the end boards that gave them the 5 on 3 for 5 minutes and came back out in the second with over 30 stitches all over his face.

flyersfan187 07-04-2012 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsWoof (Post 52130521)
He was rock solid with Doughty. Also tough as nails, he took that hit into the end boards that gave them the 5 on 3 for 5 minutes and came back out in the second with over 30 stitches all over his face.

I would be really surprised if L.A. did indeed trade him. Those types of players don't just grow on trees.

boxcar65 07-04-2012 09:00 PM

I don't know why everyone keeps saying we need someone else. Either MAB, Gus, or Manning will step in and do fine in the number 6 spot. Let's reward some homegrown talent for their hard work and dedication. I know Manning only played four games last year, but he appears to have great upside. I have to believe one of those three will play well enough in camp to nail down the final spot. Plus, we can save some money as well.....imagine that.

phillyflyerfan1992 07-04-2012 09:20 PM

Gustafsson and Bourdon in the minors learning from Terry Murray is a MUST in my opinion. They're already NHL quality blueliners to most Flyers fans but they could possibly become like Alec Martinez at worst with a little Terry Murray seasoning, which would be awesome moving forward.

I would honestly not be bothered if we did something like this:

Bouwmeester - Timonen ($14mil pairing LOL)
Grossmann - Coburn ($8mil pairing)
Meszaros - Schenn ($7.6mil pairing)
Gervais ($1mil)
Lilja ($0.7mil)

$32mil on defense (46% of the cap) sounds about right for this franchise. Not to mention Pronger's LTIR. We're spending $7mil on goalies, so we'd still have $30mil for forwards. As of now we have $25.5mil tied up to 11 forwards including Rinaldo and Shelley. :dunno:

... Obviously this is not ideal cap-wise. I would love Meszaros anchoring the 3rd pairing again with Luke Schenn. However, if we acquire someone like Bouwmeester it would probably mean the end of Andrej Meszaros in Philly. Matt Carle isn't coming back to Philly, too much money being offered elsewhere (Tampa Bay is what I'd bet on).

SO, I see it as we either stand pat like this:

Grossmann - Coburn
Timonen - Schenn
Meszaros - Gervais/xxx
Lilja

OR, keeping Gustafsson and Bourdon in the minors, would be to either acquire a top defensemen and move Meszaros (not a fan of doing):

TRADE - Timonen
Grossmann - Coburn
xxx - Schenn ?
Gervais
Lilja

I'm not a fan of this. If we're going to be acquiring a defensemen I don't want to see Meszaros moved. Unless we get someone like Enstrom with a cheap cap-hit I think our defense for this year is set. Next offseason is going to be our defense building offseason, much like the Red Wings over the past two years. Lots of solid names available, and we'll be heavily in the running with Timonen gone (or just dropping his cap-hit). I'd bet Timonen stays for a year or two after at a decent discount ($3mil per?) which would be fantastic especially if he doesn't fall of that much in terms of play. He's still a huge asset on the powerplay and mentoring our young guys.

/TLDR; Stay put or acquire someone decent this year without moving anyone else on our blueline. Next year, go get someone solid.

Pantokrator 07-04-2012 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyflyerfan1992 (Post 52132431)

Bouwmeester - Timonen ($14mil pairing LOL)
Grossmann - Coburn ($8mil pairing)
Meszaros - Schenn ($7.6mil pairing)
Gervais ($1mil)
Lilja ($0.7mil)



What do you think it would take to get Bouwmeester? I would like to have him, but was would Calgary want?

sg12lw 07-05-2012 12:02 AM

say no to jay-bo!

...or say no to the playoffs haha

phillyflyerfan1992 07-05-2012 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pantokrator (Post 52142793)
What do you think it would take to get Bouwmeester? I would like to have him, but was would Calgary want?

A few Flames fans that I'm friends with said they'd do Read+Gus+pick or Read+Meszaros. I'm not sure if I'd be willing to move Read for JBouw, however.

Not sure if that's what it would take, either. They need C's and defensemen (so they'll obviously need one going back).

rban* 07-05-2012 01:39 AM

Well, we wont even be whispering the word Stanley with the defense we have now.

One thing I know for sure : THAT defense lineup doesnt go very far in the POs.

mypunkrock 07-05-2012 01:49 AM

Timonen-Coburn
Grossmann-Gus
Mez-Schenn
Bourdon
Lilja
Gervais

I think the playoffs showed Lavy trusting Gus and Bourdon, I think Gus gets the bump and takes on a bigger role (not necessarily top 4, but bigger).

Giroux tha Damaja 07-05-2012 06:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsWoof (Post 52129563)
I wonder if there is interest in Scuderi. There was talk about him possibly being moved by the Kings a few days ago but it got lost in all the other conversations.

Absolutely do want Scuderi. He would be a really good value, unspectacular minute muncher to give kimmo some rest and help some of the young guys on the bottom pairing. Reliable, steady, but still capable. Two cups on two teams, good glue guy.

brucewaynegretzky 07-05-2012 09:40 AM

I wouldn't mind giving Hannan 1m for the year....

Spongolium* 07-05-2012 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja (Post 52151187)
Absolutely do want Scuderi. He would be a really good value, unspectacular minute muncher to give kimmo some rest and help some of the young guys on the bottom pairing. Reliable, steady, but still capable. Two cups on two teams, good glue guy.

This, I wonder what it would cost.

Pantokrator 07-05-2012 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucewaynegretzky (Post 52153959)
I wouldn't mind giving Hannan 1m for the year....

I'd do that. I would like to get a solid veteran for a year or two.

mirimon 07-06-2012 08:48 AM

Timonen-Meszaros
Coburn-Grossmann
Schenn-Bourdon/Gustafsson/Manning/Gervais/Lilja...


it's not a terrible lineup at all. It's not the best around perhaps, but the main problem last season was team d, not the individual players themselves (if that makes any sense). There are no ufa dmen left that I really want (would have preferred quite a few over Gervais though). Of course, there are quite a few question marks surrounding the group, but most NHL teams have quite a few of those on defense.

Let's hope that one of the young guys seizes the opportunity in training camp and Gervais earns all those dollars up in Glen Falls, that Meszaros gets back to form now that he's healthy (he is healthy, right?), that Schenn turns into that dman the Leafs thought they'd gotten after his rookie season, that Coburn is angry more often, and that Timonen can get some nights off once in a while (that he shouldn't have to be on the first pk unit will help quite a bit I think).

BringBackStevens 07-06-2012 08:51 AM

There going to be some problems moving the puck and generating offense from or D, IMO. Schenn is the wild card

flyersfan187 07-06-2012 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mirimon (Post 52208587)
Timonen-Meszaros
Coburn-Grossmann
Schenn-Bourdon/Gustafsson/Manning/Gervais/Lilja...


it's not a terrible lineup at all. It's not the best around perhaps, but the main problem last season was team d, not the individual players themselves (if that makes any sense). There are no ufa dmen left that I really want (would have preferred quite a few over Gervais though). Of course, there are quite a few question marks surrounding the group, but most NHL teams have quite a few of those on defense.

Let's hope that one of the young guys seizes the opportunity in training camp and Gervais earns all those dollars up in Glen Falls, that Meszaros gets back to form now that he's healthy (he is healthy, right?), that Schenn turns into that dman the Leafs thought they'd gotten after his rookie season, that Coburn is angry more often, and that Timonen can get some nights off once in a while (that he shouldn't have to be on the first pk unit will help quite a bit I think).

You see that is the thing. I was one of the few that supported trading for him then, but I have grown to think he is a weak link out there and is a waste of cap space when we have Bourdon sitting on the bench. The question I always ask myself though, is he playing really weak or is he just playing how he is suppose to be playing within the system and the forwards are that bad at rotating? Lavy's system is an intense high tempo offensive system that requires a lot of rotating and a lot of bodies to fill in for all the injuries that this type of system will bring.

flyersfan187 07-06-2012 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BringBackStevens (Post 52208647)
There going to be some problems moving the puck and generating offense from or D, IMO. Schenn is the wild card

I thought Schenn was more of a defensive guy then anything? I am worried about that outlet pass though from our d-men. Carle will be missed big time. They need to go out and get that top D.

dingbathero 07-06-2012 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brucewaynegretzky (Post 52153959)
I wouldn't mind giving Hannan 1m for the year....

This - F JayBo... he Blows!

flyersfan187 07-06-2012 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dingbathero (Post 52208873)
This - F JayBo... he Blows!

Have you watched him play much? Bouwmeester is exactly what we need for our D... You don't have to be flashy to be a good player.


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