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-   -   Proposal: Vanek instead of Nash (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1224809)

tmack224 07-05-2012 08:36 AM

Vanek instead of Nash
 
Three offers to the teams in on Nash. Only one team can get him but I believe if the price is right one of the other teams may get Vanek.

To San Jose:
T. Vanek
L. Adam

To Buffalo:
J. Pavelski
R. Clowe

----------------------
To NYR:
T. Vanek
L. Adam

To Buffalo:
B. Dubinsky
D. Stepan
1st 2013

----------------------
To Vancouver:
T. Vanek
L. Adam
A. Pardy (Cap reasons)

To Buffalo:
R. Kessler
D. Booth


Thoughts?

Xgp 07-05-2012 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmack224 (Post 52152501)
Three offers to the teams in on Nash. Only one team can get him but I believe if the price is right one of the other teams may get Vanek.

To San Jose:
T. Vanek
L. Adam

To Buffalo:
J. Pavelski
R. Clowe


Thoughts?


This one, I'm so tired of Pavelski lighting the Avs up :cry:

Baarle* 07-05-2012 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmack224 (Post 52152501)
Three offers to the teams in on Nash. Only one team can get him but I believe if the price is right one of the other teams may get Vanek.

To San Jose:
T. Vanek
L. Adam

To Buffalo:
J. Pavelski
R. Clowe

----------------------
To NYR:
T. Vanek
L. Adam

To Buffalo:
B. Dubinsky
D. Stepan
1st 2013

----------------------
To Vancouver:
T. Vanek
L. Adam
A. Pardy (Cap reasons)

To Buffalo:
R. Kessler
D. Booth


Thoughts?

I personally enjoy how Dubisnky Stepan and a first is equal in value to Pavelski and Clower :laugh:

Retail1LO 07-05-2012 09:28 AM

Not a fan of any teams in the proposals, so this is unbiased.

I think Buffalo has to give up a little bit more for the package to San Jose. I think they need to get more back in the other proposals. In trading away Vanek (much less Adam) you're arguably giving up the best player in each trade (the San Jose deal perhaps being the exception). Centers are plenty in this league, even though top tier ones are not. Scoring from the wings, however, is a premium asset.

I'd love him on the Hawks, but he wouldn't represent an upgrade over any of Hossa, Kane, or Sharp...and I quite frankly wouldn't know whom else to give up for him. He doesn't really fill a need, and would create a hole elsewhere, if not represent a lateral move.

Just my 2 cents...worth about half as much (at most).

tmg 07-05-2012 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Retail1LO (Post 52153607)
In trading away Vanek (much less Adam) you're arguably giving up the best player in each trade (the San Jose deal perhaps being the exception). Centers are plenty in this league, even though top tier ones are not. Scoring from the wings, however, is a premium asset.


You know what's more premium than scoring from the wings? A Selke-calibre defensive forward.

Kesler is but one year removed from Selke+40goals, a season that followed two other Selke-finalist seasons.

S319R11S16 07-05-2012 09:47 AM

I'd take any of the 3 and run like hell.

HiddenInLight 07-05-2012 09:53 AM

I don't think the sabres have any interest in trading Vanek after the Roy for Ott deal. Can't afford to lose any more offense IMO. It would take over payment at this point to get vanek.

Krampus 07-05-2012 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baarle (Post 52153247)
I personally enjoy how Dubisnky Stepan and a first is equal in value to Pavelski and Clower :laugh:

Consider the fact that the Rangers will not trade for Bobby Ryan because Stepan has that much value

Hatrick Marleau 07-05-2012 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmack224 (Post 52152501)
Three offers to the teams in on Nash. Only one team can get him but I believe if the price is right one of the other teams may get Vanek.

To San Jose:
T. Vanek
L. Adam

To Buffalo:
J. Pavelski
R. Clowe

----------------------
To NYR:
T. Vanek
L. Adam

To Buffalo:
B. Dubinsky
D. Stepan
1st 2013

----------------------
To Vancouver:
T. Vanek
L. Adam
A. Pardy (Cap reasons)

To Buffalo:
R. Kessler
D. Booth


Thoughts?

You are ripping off everyone except NYR. NYR is robbing the Sabres.

tsujimoto74 07-05-2012 11:25 AM

I'd think about doing the SJS deal. No to the NYR one. Take VAN deal and run like hell.

Jame 07-05-2012 12:37 PM

I'd do any one of those deals from a Buffalo perspective.

Arrch 07-05-2012 12:41 PM

Would not touch from a San Jose perspective.

Kesler2Kesler 07-05-2012 12:49 PM

lol from a Vancouver perspective.

tsujimoto74 07-05-2012 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jame (Post 52162157)
I'd do any one of those deals from a Buffalo perspective.

Really...Dubinsky and Stepan for Vanek? If Van goes to NYR, I would want Kreider + Dubi coming back (which Rangers fan probably wouldn't want to do). We have young centers. We don't need more young centers. Beyond Armia, our talent pool at wing is about as thin as thin gets. If we move Vanek, we need a top-level wing talent + coming back. Not another young 2C and a 2/3 tweener.

Timbo Slice 07-05-2012 03:04 PM

Vancouver and San Jose laugh for a few minutes before hanging up the phone.

Sather probably accepts, though.

Trxjw 07-05-2012 03:07 PM

No Stepan for Nash, which means no Stepan for Vanek.

Crymson 07-06-2012 05:18 AM

Vanek is the most overpaid 30-goal scorer in the league.

Vertzedyek 07-06-2012 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crymson (Post 52206893)
Vanek is the most overpaid 30-goal scorer in the league.

Yeah.. Thank Kevin Lowe for that.

pld459666 07-06-2012 05:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timbo Slice (Post 52171379)
Vancouver and San Jose laugh for a few minutes before hanging up the phone.

Sather probably accepts, though.

If Sather is not willing to include Stepan in a deal for Nash, he's not going to do that for Vanek.

Both as good goal scorers, but Nash is the better one in that regards.

HiddenInLight 07-06-2012 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pld459666 (Post 52207101)
If Sather is not willing to include Stepan in a deal for Nash, he's not going to do that for Vanek.

Both as good goal scorers, but Nash is the better one in that regards.

Nash is not a better goal scorer. They average VERY close to the same. IIRC Nash averages .85 G/60 min, where Vanek averages .84 or the other way around.....can't remember which, but vanek averages less ice time so I think it is pretty much dead even, considering the small difference. The only true difference between the two is that Nash hits about twice as much. But Nash's contract is worse then Vaneks so IMO that comes close to evening it out too =/

AndyPipkin 07-06-2012 07:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiddenInLight (Post 52207321)
Nash is not a better goal scorer. They average VERY close to the same. IIRC Nash averages .85 G/60 min, where Vanek averages .84 or the other way around.....can't remember which, but vanek averages less ice time so I think it is pretty much dead even, considering the small difference. The only true difference between the two is that Nash hits about twice as much. But Nash's contract is worse then Vaneks so IMO that comes close to evening it out too =/

Their GPG is basically identical, .420 for Vanek, .429 for Nash.

Gotta wonder how Nash would have done on Buff and Vanek on CBJ, considering the level of talent surrounding each.

pld459666 07-06-2012 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HiddenInLight (Post 52207321)
Nash is not a better goal scorer. They average VERY close to the same. IIRC Nash averages .85 G/60 min, where Vanek averages .84 or the other way around.....can't remember which, but vanek averages less ice time so I think it is pretty much dead even, considering the small difference. The only true difference between the two is that Nash hits about twice as much. But Nash's contract is worse then Vaneks so IMO that comes close to evening it out too =/

Give Nash 2 years of an in his prime Danny Briere or even a Derek Roy and I would love to see those numbers.

Nash's best playmaking center was a past his prime Sergei Fedorov.

Again, it's not a numbers thing with me. I think that Vanek in Nash shoes struggles to crack 30.

Vanek is not a guy that is going to create offence on his own and needs a playmaking center to generate his goals.

That's not a bad thing as you still have to bury your chances and he is a very good player at doing that.

Nash, in my opinion, is very much like Gaborik in the sense that he doesn't need a center to generate goals.

I would take Vanek on the Rangers, we have two solid center for him to play with, but I'm not moving top prospects for him.

If that means no deal, I'm ok with that as well.

tmack224 07-06-2012 08:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pld459666 (Post 52208241)
Give Nash 2 years of an in his prime Danny Briere or even a Derek Roy and I would love to see those numbers.

Nash's best playmaking center was a past his prime Sergei Fedorov.

Again, it's not a numbers thing with me. I think that Vanek in Nash shoes struggles to crack 30.

Vanek is not a guy that is going to create offence on his own and needs a playmaking center to generate his goals.

That's not a bad thing as you still have to bury your chances and he is a very good player at doing that.

Nash, in my opinion, is very much like Gaborik in the sense that he doesn't need a center to generate goals.

I would take Vanek on the Rangers, we have two solid center for him to play with, but I'm not moving top prospects for him.

If that means no deal, I'm ok with that as well.

Evidence of another HF poster that doesnt know what hes talking about... Vanek actually thrived when he played with centers that were not generating the offense. Vanek is better when he feels he is the one that needs to handle the puck. Theres a reason everytime he and Roy were on a line his play dipped. Vanek played his best away from from.

People that say o Nash never had a center to feed him the puck or a center to gel with have no idea how Lindy has handled the lines in Buffalo. VAnek has never had a center that Lined up with him night in an night out. Lindy likes to move people around more then any other coach.

Vanek and Nash are to close to say either one is better. While Nash was playing with bad centers so was Vanek. Vaneks centers have been, Jochen Hecht... Brad Boyes... Derek Roy... Tim Conolly... Luke Adam... Paul Szczechura... the last 4 years and he rarely was on the same line as Connolly and never really played well with Roy. So feel free to tell me how his centers have been so much better the Nash...

With those centers the last 4 years Vanek has averaged:

34.2 goals per 82 games

Nash has averaged:

35.6 goals per 82 games


Take cap into consideration with Vanek at 7.142 and Nash at 7.8 I would say that both of them are pretty much dead even...

pld459666 07-06-2012 09:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmack224 (Post 52208601)
Evidence of another HF poster that doesnt know what hes talking about... Vanek actually thrived when he played with centers that were not generating the offense. Vanek is better when he feels he is the one that needs to handle the puck. Theres a reason everytime he and Roy were on a line his play dipped. Vanek played his best away from from.

People that say o Nash never had a center to feed him the puck or a center to gel with have no idea how Lindy has handled the lines in Buffalo. VAnek has never had a center that Lined up with him night in an night out. Lindy likes to move people around more then any other coach.

Vanek and Nash are to close to say either one is better. While Nash was playing with bad centers so was Vanek. Vaneks centers have been, Jochen Hecht... Brad Boyes... Derek Roy... Tim Conolly... Luke Adam... Paul Szczechura... the last 4 years and he rarely was on the same line as Connolly and never really played well with Roy. So feel free to tell me how his centers have been so much better the Nash...

With those centers the last 4 years Vanek has averaged:

34.2 goals per 82 games

Nash has averaged:

35.6 goals per 82 games


Take cap into consideration with Vanek at 7.142 and Nash at 7.8 I would say that both of them are pretty much dead even...

Point made.

You mention the centers that Vanek has been able to play with the last 4 years and 2 of the guys mentioned are LEAPS AND BOUNDS better playmakers than Nash has been paired with during that same time frame and has produced better numbers.

Actual production during the last 4 years of games played. The difference of 9 games over a 4 years span is marginal at best.

Vanek - 126 goals for an average of 31.5 goals per season
Nash - 135 goals for an average of 33.75

Forget Derek Roy for a second here. Tim Connolly is better than any center that Nash has had the opportunity to play with in the last 6 years.

Wilch 07-06-2012 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tmack224 (Post 52152501)
Three offers to the teams in on Nash. Only one team can get him but I believe if the price is right one of the other teams may get Vanek.

To San Jose:
T. Vanek
L. Adam

To Buffalo:
J. Pavelski
R. Clowe

----------------------
To NYR:
T. Vanek
L. Adam

To Buffalo:
B. Dubinsky
D. Stepan
1st 2013

----------------------
To Vancouver:
T. Vanek
L. Adam
A. Pardy (Cap reasons)

To Buffalo:
R. Kessler
D. Booth


Thoughts?

VAN and SJS say no.

NYR might do it.


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