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-   -   Subban VS Doughty (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1228423)

Habblues 07-10-2012 07:21 PM

Subban VS Doughty
 
I think Drew Doughty is one fine hockey player and one of the best D man in the NHL. BUT watching Don Cherry compare him to Bobby Orr made me gag. IMO Subban has much more offensive skills that are much more Orr like. The question IS, will Therrien cut Subban loose and let him get back to playing his game ? WHY is it that it`s totally awesome when Doughty breaks down the wing leaving his spot on the blueline open BUT, when Subban does it he`s "taking too many chances" ??? IMO no other D man in the league can see the ice and make offensive plays happen like Subban. Martin totally changed Subban`s style of play imo.....We have enough "stay at home" D men, time to let him play up to his full potiential. What are your thoughts, agree or disagree ?

Uwey 07-10-2012 07:27 PM

A strong maybe, but not a definite yes, so no!!!

Coach Brisebois* 07-10-2012 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habblues (Post 52400781)
I think Drew Doughty is one fine hockey player and one of the best D man in the NHL. BUT watching Don Cherry compare him to Bobby Orr made me gag. IMO Subban has much more offensive skills that are much more Orr like. The question IS, will Therrien cut Subban loose and let him get back to playing his game ? WHY is it that it`s totally awesome when Doughty breaks down the wing leaving his spot on the blueline open BUT, when Subban does it he`s "taking too many chances" ??? IMO no other D man in the league can see the ice and make offensive plays happen like Subban. Martin totally changed Subban`s style of play imo.....We have enough "stay at home" D men, time to let him play up to his full potiential. What are your thoughts, agree or disagree ?

regardless of anything else, be glad that he learned how to play that style very early in his career rather than needing to know it later

LyricalLyricist 07-10-2012 07:38 PM

He may or may not surpass doughty. Doughty has proven more and is just the better player right now. I also hope subban breaks loose a bit, but not at the expense of good defense. His potential is a two-way d-man with flair. I do not want him to be just a one trick pony. I say they continue as is and try to get the most out of him and improve his decision making so he becomes elite. Even then, he may not reach doughty.

ChoseLa 07-10-2012 07:41 PM

Yes he could be, but he's not.

Myron Gaines* 07-10-2012 07:46 PM

Subban needs a player like Galchenyuk who will understand his style.

I remember the sick play he made on one of Leblanc's goals last year and he was absolutely ecstatic when Leblanc scored, as if he was saying: "Finally someone understood what I was trying to do".

Habblues 07-10-2012 07:47 PM

I realize Subban is not there yet BUT, the question is could he be better ? He has some amazing offensive moves and has fantastic hands to make that super great pass with.

Sebaldian 07-10-2012 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Myron Gaines (Post 52401773)
Subban needs a player like Galchenyuk who will understand his style.

I remember the sick play he made on one of Leblanc's goals last year and he was absolutely ecstatic when Leblanc scored, as if he was saying: "Finally someone understood what I was trying to do".

Yeah, I've noticed that a lot too. He does all the work, sets up a chance, and then no one is there to finish it. If he had even just moderately better forwards he'd pile up a lot more points I think.

LyricalLyricist 07-10-2012 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habblues (Post 52401855)
I realize Subban is not there yet BUT, the question is could he be better ? He has some amazing offensive moves and has fantastic hands to make that super great pass with.

I understand what you're trying to say, but the way you're presenting it makes it an obvious answer. Yes, he can be better. Subban has a huge upside. He can be a norris trophy winner or be just a top 4 d-man(i realize he's already surpassed this point, im talking regression though).

I honestly expect him to be our franchise d-man for years to come, with or without norris nominations. He has a lot of upside, and not in the typical "he'll progress way". His talent, his committment and his passion for the game are all top notch. He wants to be a winner, wants to improve and has the talent to do so. His top notch skating ability are a huge part of his game. We can only hope that our coaching staff allows him to optimize his skillset and be the best player he can be.

Habblues 07-10-2012 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the vinyl version (Post 52402135)
Yeah, I've noticed that a lot too. He does all the work, sets up a chance, and then no one is there to finish it. If he had even just moderately better forwards he'd pile up a lot more points I think.

I agree to a certain extent.....But i`ve noticed he only breaks out offensively when it`s late in the game and the Habs are getting beat by 3 or 4 goals.........I`d like to see Subban help out offensively on a regular basis.When Martin was behind the bench ,you could see Subban put the breaks on when he reached the opposing teams blueline. He`s more than just a set up man, I believe he could be the highest scoring D man in the NHL.

MoldyCakes 07-10-2012 08:09 PM

I wasn't around for Bobby Orr. How good was he running the powerplay? Freaking awesome? Well, Subban is behind Doughty in that department.

And the best Dmen are the ones who have complete games, Lidstrom. Subban should not be compromising his defense for offense just because it's his "style". You want him to be the best he can be, not what he is most comfortable with, especially if it is a detriment to his team. If Subban remained undisciplined and did not change his game, he would not be as well-loved because people can see those flaws that he would have not corrected.

KawaYui 07-10-2012 08:10 PM

YES, he can be better

Habblues 07-10-2012 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blame it on PK (Post 52402759)
I wasn't around for Bobby Orr. How good was he running the powerplay? Freaking awesome? Well, Subban is behind Doughty in that department.

And the best Dmen are the ones who have complete games, Lidstrom. Subban should not be compromising his defense for offense just because it's his "style". You want him to be the best he can be, not what he is most comfortable with, especially if it is a detriment to his team. If Subban remained undisciplined and did not change his game, he would not be as well-loved because people can see those flaws that he would have not corrected.

Last year we were starving for offence.....I really believe he could have made a difference.......................SO tell me this, everyone LOVES it when Doughty gets it done offensively, so why not Subban ? As for Bobby Orr I was young but I do remember him. Subban has the ability to be today`s Bobby Orr.

SeriousHabs 07-10-2012 08:25 PM

Subban will have to work very hard to catch up to Doughty. #8 is easily a top3 D in the league.

JGRB 07-10-2012 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habblues (Post 52403079)
Last year we were starving for offence.....I really believe he could have made a difference.......................SO tell me this, everyone LOVES it when Doughty gets it done offensively, so why not Subban ? As for Bobby Orr i was young but I bo remember him. Subban has the ability to be today`s Bobby Orr.

Because he's classless and he doesn't play the White way.

:sarcasm:

I love PK more than most people, and I think his ceiling is tremendously high. He just needs the right direction from the coaching staff and more experience. He's an absolute fitness workhorse and he can play 30 minutes a game if we need him to.

That said, I think Subban can eventually settle into the 45-55pt range as a defenseman. Which is around where Doughty falls although I see his ceiling being potentially higher. I can definitely see him end up being better defensively, he's already one of the best penalty killers in the league (and better than Doughty).

Andros777 07-10-2012 08:33 PM

Personally I don't think Subban's THAT good. He's a great skater with a great shot but his vision and instincts are not elite.

snakeye 07-10-2012 08:37 PM

I for one am very happy about the way the Montreal coaching staff acted with him last season. They gave him **** when he was ****, and let him know that hockey is a team sport and that he's a player on a TEAM. Sure individual plays look nice, and sometimes they can even make a difference, but it's the kind of stuff you pull off when you've proven you're a strong all rounded team player and not a one trick pony a la Souray. Learn the basics and THEN.....

Can he be better than Doughty offensively? Perhaps... in the same way Ovechkin can be a better goal scorer than Crosby. If you look at the bigger picture, though, who cares? I'd still take Crosby over Ovechkin any day.

MoldyCakes 07-10-2012 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habblues (Post 52403079)
Last year we were starving for offence.....I really believe he could have made a difference.......................SO tell me this, everyone LOVES it when Doughty gets it done offensively, so why not Subban ? As for Bobby Orr I was young but I do remember him. Subban has the ability to be today`s Bobby Orr.

We didn't need scoring at the expense of our only decently consistent and good pair of Gorges-Subban to be...inconsistently good. Unless you want to be reminded of our playoff loss against Boston or the regular season loss against Edmonton two seasons ago, in which Subban had a heavy hand in costing those games doing exactly what you desire him to do: pressing for offense when the situation was not favorable. It is this ability to judge accurately if a gamble will fail is what distinguishes the Lidstroms of this world from the Joe Corvos and Jack Johnsons of the world.

jwolf 07-10-2012 08:45 PM

Doughty is one of my favorite players in the league. So is Subban, for that matter. "Can Subban be better?" Of course he can! "Will he be better?" is a better question. When all is said and done, I think they will be on par with each other mostly because they are very similar players and both excellent skaters.

In the long run, PK might end up with the edge mainly because of how hard Martin was on him early on. I'm not a fan of JM, but I think his time in Montreal has made PK a better all-around d-man.

shutehinside 07-10-2012 08:45 PM

Ellis CAN be better than Doughty but he's not. Same with PK.


Sorry bro but it's a loaded question.

Shaby23 07-10-2012 08:58 PM

Why not?

EmelinHipCheck 07-10-2012 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andros777 (Post 52403829)
Personally I don't think Subban's THAT good. He's a great skater with a great shot but his vision and instincts are not elite.

With all due respect, i think you could not be more wrong.

Central Scrutinizer 07-10-2012 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LongLiveTheKing (Post 52406413)
With all due respect, i think you could not be more wrong.

You think his vision and instincts are elite?

MasterDecoy 07-10-2012 10:08 PM

subban has a better shot, doughboy has better vision. i still voted yes. they're different type of d-man anyways. and for what it's worth, in my opinion there are not many defensemen like subban in the NHL...

oh, and **** the martin haters. the man turned PK into a defensive rock. so suck it if you still want to hate on him...

LyricalLyricist 07-10-2012 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MasterDecoy (Post 52408317)
subban has a better shot, doughboy has better vision. i still voted yes. they're different type of d-man anyways. and for what it's worth, in my opinion there are not many defensemen like subban in the NHL...

oh, and **** the martin haters. the man turned PK into a defensive rock. so suck it if you still want to hate on him...

Agreed. I don't think Martin misused him. In fact, Subban emerged and got top minutes i playoffs under martin.


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