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koh19 07-11-2012 09:28 AM

Information about CIS hockey
 
Hey,

So there aren't many forums specifically for CIS hockey so I thought I might ask here.

This is just an idea I have, something that might happen down the road, it would be the 2013-2014 season if it ever happens, so it's nothing concrete yet but I wanna gather some information.

I want to know if it would be technically possible for me to play in the CIS.

I know the level of the league is lower than the one of the NCAA division 1 but I don't really know how good it is. From what I know, a lot of "lower level" CHL guys go on to play in the CIS, guys that perhaps aren't good enough for Pros or just wanna get a degree before they take a shot at the big leagues.

At first, following TSN and all, I thought there were only 10-12 teams in the league because they always talked about the same teams (they also always mentioned a CIS tournament and a top 10 CIS team list so for some reason I thought there were only 10 teams) but I recently found out that there are 34 teams in total. At first, when I thought there were only 10-12, I thought that I had no chance in hell to find a spot but now that I know there are 34, I think I have a better shot.

Of course it also depends on my hockey and academic level but first I wanted to know if you guys could help me with very basic knowledge on how the CIS works.

FreddtFoyle 07-11-2012 11:11 AM

CIS men's hockey is divided into three conferences: the AUS in the Atlantic provinces, the OUA for Ontario and Quebec, and CanadaWest for all of the provinces west of Ontario.

There are 8 teams in the AUS in three provinces: http://www.atlanticuniversitysport.com/mens/hockey/

The OUA is effectively a double-conference with 19 teams in two divisions: http://oua.ca/index.aspx?path=mhockey

Canada West just added a school for this upcoming season, so they will have 8 teams: http://www.canadawest.org/index.aspx?path=mhockey

Unlike the NCAA, CIS teams don't play out-of-conference games during the season (some teams will meet in pre-season or Christmas holiday exhibition games). The champions from the AUS, Canada West and OUA play for the University Cup, the CIS national championship, each March.

The competition level varies between the conference. The AUS and Canada West are very competitive, with most teams able to beat each other on any given night. The AUS and Canada West have dominated the national championships for the last ten years or longer, but McGill, from the OUA won their first-ever national championship this past March.

The top teams in the OUA are as competitive nationally as the AUS and CanWest, but in my opinion the bottom half of the OUA is not near as competitive. This I believe has been a disadvantage for the top OUA teams as they are not necessarily challenged every game they play.

The top AUS, Canada West and OUA teams are pretty close to the level of NCAA Division I teams and win the odd game when they play exhibition games in the fall. The lower-tier OUA teams tend to get hammered.

The top CIS teams tend to recruit the majority of their players from the CHL (Canadian Major Junior leagues: QMJHL, OHL, WHL), and their top recruits are usually good enough to get a minor-pro contract but have instead opted to use their education packages from the CHL to go to the CIS. The rest of the players come from Junior A teams.

The lower-level CIS teams would have fewer Major Junior players and as you go down the standings you may even see Junior B player in their lineups. It is rare to see a former Junior B or high school player on a top-10 CIS team roster.

If you're a European, it is possible to crack a CIS roster, but it is easier if you have played Junior in Canada first so that you can be scouted/identified. Otherwise you probably have to have a coach who knows a CIS coach and can convince him to give you a try-out.

All CIS schools have open try-outs before the season, but again, "walk-ons" seldom crack a top CIS roster. You might have luck with lower-tier teams though.

Rocko604 07-11-2012 12:33 PM

What level/league are you currently playing in Switzerland? If you're playing Pro in NLB or 1. Liga, there might be eligibility issues, but the recruiting department for the the school should be up to date on that.

Depdning on your level, UBC would be a school to check out. Last season they had 16 former Junior A players on their roster, plus from the German Oberliga. U of Lethbridge had 12, and U of Regina had 13.

Hollywood3 07-11-2012 04:55 PM

I would also suggest you check last year's Bison thread. They played 5 games against teams from Italy, Germany, and Austria and won 3 and lost 2. Concordia beat 2 lower level Swiss teams last year.

P.S. The Bisons played Rosenheim Starbulls, SV Ritten Sport, Fischtown Penguins, Graz 99ers, and Landshut Cannibals.

timbitca 07-12-2012 09:31 AM

1) are you french?

2) are you good?

;)

But yeah, without knowing at what level you currently play in, your age and what levels you've played at in the past, it's hard for us to guide you.

AUS Fan 07-12-2012 10:35 AM

If you can wait until late October, you can get in the MBA program at UNB. :)

But, as Timbit says, if we dont know your skill level it's hard to answer your question.

However, reading your post where you refer to 34 teams as giving you a better shot, I would guess that your level is not of the calibre of the top CIS teams. If that is the case, it would be a stretch to think that a mid to lower tier CIS team will use up a scholarship on you over a local jr A product.

IMHO.....

koh19 07-23-2012 07:43 PM

Thanks for all the info guys, sorry it took me so long to respond, I've been very busy these past few days.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FreddtFoyle (Post 52423063)
CIS men's hockey is divided into three conferences: the AUS in the Atlantic provinces, the OUA for Ontario and Quebec, and CanadaWest for all of the provinces west of Ontario.

There are 8 teams in the AUS in three provinces: http://www.atlanticuniversitysport.com/mens/hockey/

The OUA is effectively a double-conference with 19 teams in two divisions: http://oua.ca/index.aspx?path=mhockey

Canada West just added a school for this upcoming season, so they will have 8 teams: http://www.canadawest.org/index.aspx?path=mhockey

Unlike the NCAA, CIS teams don't play out-of-conference games during the season (some teams will meet in pre-season or Christmas holiday exhibition games). The champions from the AUS, Canada West and OUA play for the University Cup, the CIS national championship, each March.

The competition level varies between the conference. The AUS and Canada West are very competitive, with most teams able to beat each other on any given night. The AUS and Canada West have dominated the national championships for the last ten years or longer, but McGill, from the OUA won their first-ever national championship this past March.

The top teams in the OUA are as competitive nationally as the AUS and CanWest, but in my opinion the bottom half of the OUA is not near as competitive. This I believe has been a disadvantage for the top OUA teams as they are not necessarily challenged every game they play.

The top AUS, Canada West and OUA teams are pretty close to the level of NCAA Division I teams and win the odd game when they play exhibition games in the fall. The lower-tier OUA teams tend to get hammered.

The top CIS teams tend to recruit the majority of their players from the CHL (Canadian Major Junior leagues: QMJHL, OHL, WHL), and their top recruits are usually good enough to get a minor-pro contract but have instead opted to use their education packages from the CHL to go to the CIS. The rest of the players come from Junior A teams.

The lower-level CIS teams would have fewer Major Junior players and as you go down the standings you may even see Junior B player in their lineups. It is rare to see a former Junior B or high school player on a top-10 CIS team roster.

If you're a European, it is possible to crack a CIS roster, but it is easier if you have played Junior in Canada first so that you can be scouted/identified. Otherwise you probably have to have a coach who knows a CIS coach and can convince him to give you a try-out.

All CIS schools have open try-outs before the season, but again, "walk-ons" seldom crack a top CIS roster. You might have luck with lower-tier teams though.

Thanks so much! Lots of useful stuff. Yeah coaches over here have no contacts whatsoever with the CIS, I'm almost 100% sure of that. Most don't even know there's a Canadian university hockey league. This is for sure a big disadvantage.

Yeah I could make a lower-tier team as a walk-on, who knows right? I still have an entire season to get better, improve all aspects of my game. But like you mentionned, it'll be tough, but hey why not try right?



Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocko604 (Post 52426395)
What level/league are you currently playing in Switzerland? If you're playing Pro in NLB or 1. Liga, there might be eligibility issues, but the recruiting department for the the school should be up to date on that.

Depdning on your level, UBC would be a school to check out. Last season they had 16 former Junior A players on their roster, plus from the German Oberliga. U of Lethbridge had 12, and U of Regina had 13.

I play in the 1. Liga. Yeah concerning the eligibility issues, I was thinking about that the other day. I wonder if the CIS has the same type of rules as the NCAA. Fact is I've been getting paid to play hockey, it's not much but I'm still getting paid, so I'm considered a semi-pro, there might be issues there but I'll make sure to check that out.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood3 (Post 52438005)
I would also suggest you check last year's Bison thread. They played 5 games against teams from Italy, Germany, and Austria and won 3 and lost 2. Concordia beat 2 lower level Swiss teams last year.

P.S. The Bisons played Rosenheim Starbulls, SV Ritten Sport, Fischtown Penguins, Graz 99ers, and Landshut Cannibals.

Thanks for that. I had no idea some teams traveled to Europe to play games. Awesome stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by timbitca (Post 52460099)
1) are you french?

2) are you good?

;)

But yeah, without knowing at what level you currently play in, your age and what levels you've played at in the past, it's hard for us to guide you.

French as in from France? If so, no! ;)

I'm 22, played semi pro for 3 years in the 1. liga. I'm pretty good.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AUS Fan (Post 52461955)
If you can wait until late October, you can get in the MBA program at UNB. :)

But, as Timbit says, if we dont know your skill level it's hard to answer your question.

However, reading your post where you refer to 34 teams as giving you a better shot, I would guess that your level is not of the calibre of the top CIS teams. If that is the case, it would be a stretch to think that a mid to lower tier CIS team will use up a scholarship on you over a local jr A product.

IMHO.....

Thanks for that man. All things considered, I don't think I'd make a top tier team with players that played in the OHL, WHL, QMJHL. That's for sure. But I think I could make a mid to lower tier team. I mean sure, I'm unknown over there, but I still have a whole season to get better, get faster, stronger, etc... who knows? If anybody is looking for a type of player like me (gritty, strong, quite fast for my weight, good skills, great skating), I have a shot I think.

But yeah, I did not think of the scholarship issue. Thanks for the info. Will look it up.


Thanks again guys, really cool of you to help me out here.

Cheers

koh19 07-23-2012 07:51 PM

On another note, do you guys know of any particular website that could be useful for me, apart from the obvious ones (www.universitysports.ca, english.cis-sic.ca)

Also, do you know any other forums where I could gather information? I haven't found any apart from hfboards.

Thanks!

Hollywood3 07-23-2012 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koh19 (Post 52875271)
On another note, do you guys know of any particular website that could be useful for me, apart from the obvious ones (www.universitysports.ca, english.cis-sic.ca)

Also, do you know any other forums where I could gather information? I haven't found any apart from hfboards.

Thanks!

There are not any recruitment-oriented websites. Your best bet is to make sure your stats are on http://www.eliteprospects.com/ and http://www.hockeydb.com/. Then write by email to any teams in which you would be interested.

The problem is that no CIS teams scout Europe. So you should get a reference from a coach in your league who might have a CIS connection.

skatesharpener 07-24-2012 01:48 PM

When one sees the recruits that are going to university, you wonder how some of these ever got in. No doubt coaches are able to do special favours thru admissions. Its one thing starting the year.........its another finishing it. Some of these kids are going to be in for a rude awakening.

Drummer 07-24-2012 03:05 PM

I would also suggest you review the CIS Eligibility Rules.

Eligibility Package

"40.10.6.2.3.7.2 European Hockey Leagues in any division are recognized as professional leagues.

Beginning with participation in 2011-12, participation in any league based outside of Canada or the United States will be recognized as a professional league."

You lose one year of eligibility for each year you play professional after the age of 21. As you are now 22, you have lost one year and you want to play pro this coming season. This means you have lost two years before Sept. 2013 (possibly three, depending on where your birthday falls in the calendar year).

If you're good, a team will take you, but your choices maybe limited.

This is one reason teams don't scout in Europe.

koh19 08-07-2012 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drummer (Post 52910809)
I would also suggest you review the CIS Eligibility Rules.

Eligibility Package

"40.10.6.2.3.7.2 European Hockey Leagues in any division are recognized as professional leagues.

Beginning with participation in 2011-12, participation in any league based outside of Canada or the United States will be recognized as a professional league."

You lose one year of eligibility for each year you play professional after the age of 21. As you are now 22, you have lost one year and you want to play pro this coming season. This means you have lost two years before Sept. 2013 (possibly three, depending on where your birthday falls in the calendar year).

If you're good, a team will take you, but your choices maybe limited.

This is one reason teams don't scout in Europe.

So what does this mean for me exactly?

I'm still gonna be playing with the same team this year. What does it mean "to lose two years"?

Man, so according the CIS rules, I'm a professional ice hockey player but here at home, I don't even make enough to be considered a semi-professional. It's crazy.

Why does the CIS implement rules like this?

thanks

Hollywood3 08-07-2012 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koh19 (Post 53346271)
So what does this mean for me exactly?

I'm still gonna be playing with the same team this year. What does it mean "to lose two years"?

Man, so according the CIS rules, I'm a professional ice hockey player but here at home, I don't even make enough to be considered a semi-professional. It's crazy.

Why does the CIS implement rules like this?

thanks

They don't wan old guys coming over. They want players to start ASAP after junior hockey is done. The Euro leagues are hard to categorize because they have no clear line between pro and amateur. Basically once you hit 21 they want the clock to start ticking.

koh19 08-07-2012 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hollywood3 (Post 53349349)
They don't wan old guys coming over. They want players to start ASAP after junior hockey is done. The Euro leagues are hard to categorize because they have no clear line between pro and amateur. Basically once you hit 21 they want the clock to start ticking.

Ah ok, I get it. So if this ever happens, I'd be 23 years old. I'd be at a stage where I'd be doing a master's degree.

Can it still happen?

Drummer 08-07-2012 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koh19 (Post 53350073)
Ah ok, I get it. So if this ever happens, I'd be 23 years old. I'd be at a stage where I'd be doing a master's degree.

Can it still happen?

You can enroll into any program, Bachelors, Master's or PhD and still play hockey. However, I Master's degree is generally more academically challenging and there may not be a lot of time for Hockey.

What month do you turn 23? We can tell you how many years of eligability you will have if we knew that.

As mentioned, it's too hard to properly categorize each level in Europe, so they(CIS) want you to decide around age 21 if you want to play Varsity sports or not.

Hollywood3 08-07-2012 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drummer (Post 53350649)
You can enroll into any program, Bachelors, Master's or PhD and still play hockey. However, I Master's degree is generally more academically challenging and there may not be a lot of time for Hockey.

What month do you turn 23? We can tell you how many years of eligability you will have if we knew that.

As mentioned, it's too hard to properly categorize each level in Europe, so they(CIS) want you to decide around age 21 if you want to play Varsity sports or not.

My guess is the OUA is the only candidate. It would have to be a school with the right master's program AND a hockey team that would take a player with 2 or 3 years of eligibility left. That eliminates the big schools in the west and Atlantic, and probably all the small schools. I am guessing Toronto or York would be candidates, or possibly Laurier, Queen's, or Ottawa.

koh19 08-07-2012 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drummer (Post 53350649)
You can enroll into any program, Bachelors, Master's or PhD and still play hockey. However, I Master's degree is generally more academically challenging and there may not be a lot of time for Hockey.

What month do you turn 23? We can tell you how many years of eligability you will have if we knew that.

As mentioned, it's too hard to properly categorize each level in Europe, so they(CIS) want you to decide around age 21 if you want to play Varsity sports or not.

Yeah having to do a master's degree and playing hockey would certainly be challenging but it can be done I think. I've managed to focus my mind on university and hockey only for the past 3 years for 9-10 months every year and have had success (no drinking, no partying on weekends, strict diet, good sleeping hours, etc...). But yeah, upgrading to a master's degree is probably even more challenging.

I turn 23 in February.

Thanks again for all the info guys. It's really cool of you to help me out.

Cheers

koh19 08-14-2012 07:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koh19 (Post 53365835)
Yeah having to do a master's degree and playing hockey would certainly be challenging but it can be done I think. I've managed to focus my mind on university and hockey only for the past 3 years for 9-10 months every year and have had success (no drinking, no partying on weekends, strict diet, good sleeping hours, etc...). But yeah, upgrading to a master's degree is probably even more challenging.

I turn 23 in February.

Thanks again for all the info guys. It's really cool of you to help me out.

Cheers

So what's the deal if I turn 23 in February 2012? Could that be a problem?

Drummer 08-14-2012 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koh19 (Post 53558189)
So what's the deal if I turn 23 in February 2012? Could that be a problem?

This means you will lose 2-years of eligibility.

You can not play the 2013/14 season in Europe or in the CIS, but you can practice (called 'red shirting') for the 2013/14 season and attend classes (or just stay home or travel)

The exact date of eligability is 1 year from your last European game (eg. Feb 27, 2013 means you can not play CIS until Feb. 27, 2014 which is the last week of the season).

If you go to a CIS School in Sept. 2013
- you can not play, but can practice for the 2013/14 season (red shirt)
- you will have 3 years of eligibility left, starting Sept 2014.

Hollywood3 08-14-2012 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Drummer (Post 53564413)
This means you will lose 2-years of eligibility.

You can not play the 2013/14 season in Europe or in the CIS, but you can practice (called 'red shirting') for the 2013/14 season and attend classes (or just stay home or travel)

The exact date of eligability is 1 year from your last European game (eg. Feb 27, 2013 means you can not play CIS until Feb. 27, 2014 which is the last week of the season).

If you go to a CIS School in Sept. 2013
- you can not play, but can practice for the 2013/14 season (red shirt)
- you will have 3 years of eligibility left, starting Sept 2014.


Note that CIS has 5 years of eligibility, leaving you with 3.

Also, while "red shirting" you could play senior men's hockey off campus if you choose.


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