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-   -   All Purpose DUCHENE Thread (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1228799)

Bender 07-11-2012 02:03 PM

All Purpose DUCHENE Thread
 
(Also known as : BENDER'S SUMMER FUN 2012)

So I wanted to make this thread since we're getting a bunch of non-sense from some POSER know-nothing hockey writer who think it's a great idea to trade Duchene. For all those that think so as well, this is for you :

Season 1 Season 2
18 Yr old 19 Yr old Total
1 Crosby 102 120 222
2 Kane 72 70 142
3 Stamkos 46 95 141
4 Duchene 55 67 122
5 Tavares 54 67 121
6 Kovalchuk 51 67 118
7 Skinner 63 44 107
8 Ovechkin 0 106 106 Russia until he came into the league at 19 yrs old (lockout)
9 Gaborik 36 67 103
10 Nash 39 57 96
11 LeCavalier 28 67 95
12 Hall 42 53 95
13 Marleau 32 45 77
14 Backstrom 0 69 69
15 Heatley 0 67 67
16 Kessel 29 37 66
17 Kopitar 0 61 61
18 Toews 0 54 54
19 Tanguay 0 51 51
20 Iginla 0 50 50
21 Thornton 7 41 48
22 Gagne 0 48 48
23 Havlat 0 42 42
24 Bergeron 39 0 39 *He played his 2nd PRO season in the AHL due to the lockout. 73 pt season is essentially his THIRD as a pro.
25 Sedin 0 34 34
26 Hossa 1 30 31
27 E. Staal 31 0 31 *He played his 2nd PRO season in the AHL due to the lockout. 100 pt season is essentially his THIRD as a pro.
28 Hemsky 0 30 30
29 H. Sedin 0 29 29
30 Semin 0 22 22
31 Cammalleri 0 8 8
32 Ribeiro 0 2 2
33 Briere 0 1 1
34 Malkin 0 0 0 Russia until he came into the league at 20 yrs old
35 Spezza 0 0 0 Played Junior until age of 20
36 Datsyuk 0 0 0 Came into the NHL at age 23, even then his first 2 seasons = 86 pts
37 Selanne 0 0 0 Came into the NHL at age 24
38 Alfredsson 0 0 0 Drafted as a 22 year old
39 Getzlaf 0 0 0 Came into the NHL at age 20
40 Zetterberg 0 0 0 Came into the NHL at age 22, even then his first 2 seasons = 87 pts
41 B.Richards 0 0 0 Came into the NHL at age 20
42 Stastny 0 0 0 Came into the NHL at age 21
43 St-Louis 0 0 0 First NHL game at age 23
44 Savard 0 0 0 First NHL game at age 20
45 Elias 0 0 0
46 Hejduk 0 0 0 Came into the NHL at age 22
47 Vanek 0 0 0
48 Perry 0 0 0 First NHL game at age 20
49 Roy 0 0 0 First NHL game at age 20
50 Parise 0 0 0 First NHL game at age 20, even then his first 2 seasons = 94 pts
51 Ryan 0 0 0 First NHL game at age 20, even then his first 2 seasons = 67 pts
52 M.Richards 0 0 0 First NHL game at age 20, even then his first 2 seasons = 66 pts
53 Carter 0 0 0 First NHL game at age 20, even then his first 2 seasons = 79 pts
54 M.Koivu 0 0 0 First NHL game at age 20, even then his first 2 seasons = 75 pts
55 Giroux 0 0 0 First NHL game at age 20, even then his first 2 seasons = 74 pts (played 2 games year before with 0 pts)

This shows all the top players in the NHL currently and what they were doing as 18 and 19 years olds in the league while Duchene was putting up points. That's some pretty elite company up there.

Yeah, last season was not an easy one but it doesn't erase what he was able to do for the first 2 years, AT THAT AGE compared to the rest of the better offensive players in the league.

CLEARLY, this is a player who isn't developping as we'd hoped. :rolleyes:
CLEARLY, we should be doing all we can to try and get rid of him. :rolleyes:

So, in case you're STILL missing the point, while guys like Giroux and 'Golden Boy, 98 Million Dollar man' Zach Parise were still developing their game in junior, Duchene was able to step right in and put up impressive numbers. When you think that Giroux's first two seasons were a combined 74 pts, what are Duchene's seasons going to look like when he gets to Giroux's age??? I guess we'll have to wait and see. <- NOT WAITING TO SEE, IS ABSOLUTE MADNESS in my opinion.

Enjoy.

Foppa Frossa 07-11-2012 02:05 PM

He sucks/is awesome

Muffin 07-11-2012 02:08 PM

What about seasons 1, 2, and 3 :sarcasm:

Adama0905 07-11-2012 02:10 PM

Put up a three season comparison, not just two. I don't think the results will be much worse, but I'd like to see.

JWK 07-11-2012 02:21 PM

I thought we already had a Duchene thread? Something like "Duchene is a bust" thread :laugh:

Bender 07-11-2012 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adama0905 (Post 52430541)
Put up a three season comparison, not just two. I don't think the results will be much worse, but I'd like to see.

The reason WHY I put up just the first 2 years of his career was to highlight, just how special it actually IS for a player THAT YOUNG to come into the league and put up those kinds of points. It certainly is quite rare and players like that are few and far between.

For anyone that wants to give up on him NOW, I'm trying to show them that it would be complete and utter stupidity to do so, when you think of the potential he still has. The kid is 21 years old. Most of the guys on that list, were just getting their feet wet in the NHL at that age and didn't have the same kind of pressure to produce as rookies just coming in.

Everyone knows last season was tough for him and while I'm one of his biggest fans, I was also a critic of the game he was trying to play last season.

Like I said, he's 21, he's still got lots of development and growing to do as a player and when he gets to 25-26 years old, I certainly wouldn't want to be the GM that 'traded this kid away', I can tell you that much.

Bender 07-11-2012 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muffin (Post 52430457)
What about seasons 1, 2, and 3 :sarcasm:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adama0905 (Post 52430541)
Put up a three season comparison, not just two. I don't think the results will be much worse, but I'd like to see.

It's too long to go through and add season 3 as well for all the players and I don't have enough time to do it right now but I worked it out for all the guys who are 'close' to him and if I calculated Season 3 (20 year old season) as well, he would fall back to around 9th or 10th because of his off year last season.

Still ELITE company.

AMDZen 07-11-2012 02:43 PM

BUST

Get rid of him.

I have two Duchene jersey's, total $300 out of pocket but I'll just look at it as a loss just as the Avalanche organization should look at Duchene as a loss and move on.

Someone needs to send this to Mark Kiszla and tell him to find a new job in a city with people as dumb as he is

OH

And you should post this in the main forums too

henchman24 07-11-2012 02:53 PM

This thread needs more Landeskog... at 19 already :yo:

Duchene had a bad year last year, and he needs to prove it was a fluke. His first two years were great and he showed that he has great potential. This is his year to show he can be a #1 center.

Edit: O'Reilly should be at 19 as well :yo:

GamingGiant 07-11-2012 02:57 PM

Wonder where Landeskog will rank on that list after next season :sarcasm:

the_fan 07-11-2012 03:00 PM

Clearly a bust

The Shermanator 07-11-2012 03:33 PM

http://www.nps.gov/museum/exhibits/d...O1670_bust.jpg

The Kingslayer 07-11-2012 03:55 PM

Sucha bust we had a chance at Bozak and blew it BAD

Landeslog 07-11-2012 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AMDZen (Post 52431913)
BUST

Get rid of him.

I have two Duchene jersey's, total $300 out of pocket but I'll just look at it as a loss just as the Avalanche organization should look at Duchene as a loss and move on.

Someone needs to send this to Mark Kiszla and tell him to find a new job in a city with people as dumb as he is

OH

And you should post this in the main forums too

I have two Duchene jerseys as well. AND a fat head. ~$500 out of pocket for me. I thought I was safe after 67 points...
He better not fail lol

GamingGiant 07-11-2012 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Landeslog (Post 52435863)
I have two Duchene jerseys as well. AND a fat head. ~$500 out of pocket for me. I thought I was safe after 67 points...
He better not fail lol

Sure wish they would make some decent Avalanche fat heads.

Sakic or Bourque with the cup would be awesome!

CobraAcesS 07-11-2012 04:33 PM

Nice job Bender, pretty cool post and fun to look at those numbers. I'm guessing it took a little while so props.

I like the Giroux/Duchene comparison because Giroux has stated publicly that he had to learn how to use his linemates better and was always a shoot first player.

People may or may not remember this but Yzerman had to do a self check shortly after entering the league and focus on becoming a more complete player defensively as well.

I am not saying Duchene is going to turn into a Selke candidate in two years but the premise is that players can learn and adapt, especially when they have that much talent.

Both Yzerman & Giroux and I am sure plenty of other star players had to go through some hard lessons like Duchene is doing now.

I remind myself that Duchene was still putting up a 30 goal 30 assist pace before he went down the first time, and he was struggling at the time.

If a 60 point pace is struggling for a 21 year old, it's scary to think what he is really capable with some maturity and development.

So yeah I am not sure I would want to be the GM that traded him, I would of been ok trading him for Ryan before he signed his contract but that was a pretty strong statement of commitment on his part. He could of just asked for one year not two..

I think he found a way of reminding us all that regardless of his struggles he is still committed to the team and proving he can be better. While also saying that there is no place he would rather be. That adds a lot of value so I am happy to eat Crow on that one.

the_fan 07-11-2012 04:39 PM

LOL comparing Duchene to Giroux.

97 points in 77 games....yeah Duchene has come close to those numbers before

Lonewolfe2015 07-11-2012 04:43 PM

Maybe we should send Duchene to college or something, put him through Hockey 101.

GamingGiant 07-11-2012 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fan (Post 52437363)
97 points in 77 games....yeah Duchene has come close to those numbers before

I believe they are trying to compare the two based on production at a similar age.

In which case Duchene has out produced Giroux.

Duchene still has a ways to go to reach the same level that Giroux is at now though.

the_fan 07-11-2012 04:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 (Post 52437523)
Maybe we should send Duchene to college or something, put him through Hockey 101.

Yeah but then he'll miss out on fly fishing

the_fan 07-11-2012 04:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GamingGiant (Post 52437555)
I believe they are trying to compare the two based on production at a similar age.

In which case Duchene has out produced Giroux.

Duchene still has a ways to go to reach the same level that Giroux is at now though.

I don't think Duchene will ever come close to 90 points. I want to be wrong but that's what i really think.

His potential is probably 70 points tops.

henchman24 07-11-2012 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fan (Post 52437363)
LOL comparing Duchene to Giroux.

97 points in 77 games....yeah Duchene has come close to those numbers before

93 in 77 actually, and Giroux didn't do that until he was 24 (76 in 82 at 23, 47 in 82 at 22). Not saying Duchene will be a Giroux level scorer, but let's see where Duchene is at 24 before saying that is a ridiculous comparison. Remember Duchene scored 67 points in 80 games as a 20 year old. Giroux was splitting time in the AHL and NHL that season and scored 27 in 42. Duchene has the skill to score 90+ pts if he can put it together. Seeing what Duchene does next year will tell you a lot about what type of player he is.

henchman24 07-11-2012 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fan (Post 52437741)
I don't think Duchene will ever come close to 90 points. I want to be wrong but that's what i really think.

His potential is probably 70 points tops.

You think his potential is what he did as a 20 year old on a bad team? :huh:

FoppaForsberg* 07-11-2012 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by the_fan (Post 52437741)
I don't think Duchene will ever come close to 90 points. I want to be wrong but that's what i really think.

His potential is probably 70 points tops.

He got 67 points in his 2nd year, you believe his potential is 3 more points? Don't sell him so short, he may not hit 90, but I see him at his peak being a PPG player.

the_fan 07-11-2012 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by henchman24 (Post 52437847)
You think his potential is what he did at a 20 year old on a bad team? :huh:

Yes. Unless he completely changes the way he plays, unless he gets tougher and not so easy to knock off pucks he wont score more than 70 points in the NHL no matter who he plays with.

It's not like Duchene uses his line mates, he always tries doing things on his own and most of the time ends up losing the puck.

I'm not sure how much he can change his game to be more productive, but I think he needs to make a whole bunch of changes if he ever wants to come close to 80 or 90 points.


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