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-   -   Prospect Info: Defense Prospects Progress Report (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1229959)

BigG44 07-13-2012 12:56 PM

Defense Prospects Progress Report
 
I debated whether this deserved it's own thread or to put it in the camp thread. Ultimately, I though the article was strong enough it deserved it's own thread. I'd love to quote the whole article from Mark Stepneski, but I know HF won't allow that so you really should take some time to check it out.

On Brenden Dillon:
Quote:

Jackson: I dont know what I can say about him. Hes just an all-in type of player. Hes a total pro for a young guy. He takes all the resources around him, he uses everybody who has NHL experience in the different areas whether it is J.J. or the coaches and he absorbs anything the guys have to share with him. Hes on the verge of pushing for the big team. Hell have some growing challenges initially because hes young and its a tough league. There will be some nights where hell have his moments, but I think the raw ability and the attitude is a pretty good package. Hes a big man, he plays hard, he has some physical attributes, he has some bite and he has talent. I think he has a lot of attributes we can work with and polish him into a pretty good player.
On Jokipakka (who put on over 24 lbs. of weight in 1 year):
Quote:

McQueen: He became a man between last year and this year. Last year, he was quite slight and he put on weight. Hes very, very strong. We were really pleased with the way he came into camp here. On his fitness, hes gained some confidence in his training. Hes good.
On Nemeth:
Quote:

Jackson: Heres a kid who has played two years against men. In some ways, he ahead of a lot of the guys going into Texas. Hes had two years in the Swedish Elite League, hes played in the last two World Junior Championships for Sweden. Hes a kid with a great attitude, hes a great teammate and he has a great base of abilities. I sense he is going to go in there and do well right off the hop.
On Oleksiak:
Quote:

Jackson: Hes on the fast track. Hes a kid that had some great experiences coming into the Canadian Hockey League last year and he played on the world stage in Edmonton and Calgary for Team Canada at the World Junior Championships. That was a great experience for him to measure himself against the best players in his age group in the world. He did well there. I sense he has all the physical elements to be a real good player. When he gets here and goes into Texas, hell have Willie Desjardins (head coach) and Doug Lidster (assistant coach). Hell get good instruction, good competition and hes going to get challenged against men every night. I suspect hell have some bumps as most first-year guys do, but he certainly has the ability to absorb those bumps, grow and develop. I look for big things from him.
On Vance:
Quote:

McQueen: He probably put on 18 pounds for us between last year and this year. Last season I went up to Quebec to see him and go over training. We brought him in a week early as well. He has a trainer in Philadelphia and we talk once a week. He was a slight guy, but hes starting to put on the weight and is 223 pounds now. Hes going to another camp in the Maritimes that will be really good for him.

BigG44 07-13-2012 01:03 PM

The Stars successfully competed in the NHL playoffs with three NHL rookies in 2008.

If two 40 year old forwards keep playing the way they played last season, by the time the playoffs roll around I think Dallas could very easily see a 2nd year pro and two rookies on defense carrying their own weight and contributing.

Philip Larsen, Brenden Dillon, and Patrik Nemeth are probably the biggest reasons we haven't seen Dallas make a big move on defense yet.

It is actually difficult to mesh those 3 with Goligoski, Daley, and Robidas though. Unless you breakup the promising Dillon-Daley pair, Larsen ends up with Goligoski or Robidas which wouldn't be ideal IMO. I still think a Goli-Daley pair could work so maybe .....

Goligoski-Daley
Dillon-Larsen
Nemeth-Robidas
Rome

I just really believe that Nemeth forces his way onto the team by the trade deadline ... meaning Fistric gets forced out.

LatvianTwist 07-13-2012 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigG44 (Post 52507047)
The Stars successfully competed in the NHL playoffs with three NHL rookies in 2008.

If two 40 year old forwards keep playing the way they played last season, by the time the playoffs roll around I think Dallas could very easily see a 2nd year pro and two rookies on defense carrying their own weight and contributing.

Philip Larsen, Brenden Dillon, and Patrik Nemeth are probably the biggest reasons we haven't seen Dallas make a big move on defense yet.

It is actually difficult to mesh those 3 with Goligoski, Daley, and Robidas though. Unless you breakup the promising Dillon-Daley pair, Larsen ends up with Goligoski or Robidas which wouldn't be ideal IMO. I still think a Goli-Daley pair could work so maybe .....

Goligoski-Daley
Dillon-Larsen
Nemeth-Robidas
Rome

I just really believe that Nemeth forces his way onto the team by the trade deadline ... meaning Fistric gets forced out.

Goligoski - Robidas (ew)
Dillon - Daley
Nemeth - Larsen
Rome

??? Or will Goose and Robi never be a pair? I'm not too sure there.

I feel like our top 4 going forward should be:

Goligoski - Oleksiak
Nemeth - Larsen

I really like that.

piqued 07-13-2012 01:19 PM

It's fine if it's its own thread but I changed the title to something more accurate.

You rarely hear Jackson gushing over someone like he did about Dillon. Just solidifies the idea that he'll be making the team.

Never would've seen this type of quality content from the official site in the past either.

BigG44 07-13-2012 01:32 PM

I really hope this group (+Larsen) doesn't end up being mostly disappointing like Dallas' last group (Niskanen, Grossman, Fistric, and Vishnevskiy).

Larsen already appears to have a much better defensive game than Niskanen which hopefully indicates he at least has a better future with the club than Nisky. He needs to make some big strides though offensively this season. Nemeth and Oleksiak stand a good chance to be better versions of Grossman and Fistric (better skaters, better puck skills).

What's great about this article though is you have talented D prospects that aren't even mentioned. Bystrom is not a scrub prospect. He was a highly rated two-way defenseman this season who is a bit raw. That said, his development curve is already ahead of Nemeth and Klingberg. Neither even had a sniff of the SEL before they were drafted, and Bystrom was already much more successful internationally and offensively in juniors. There's plenty to be excited about him as well even if he is a bit raw.

Hull Fan 07-13-2012 01:41 PM

The problem is you have too many small guys and Robidas should be the odd one out but his NTC and Dallas' love affair make that unlikely for now. I totally agree Fistric's time is almost up and have no problem trading him and letting Benn be the #7. The question is will Dallas do that and only have 7 guys will NHL experience and no obvious AHL callup as backup?

I expect to see this next season:

Dillon-Daley
Larsen-Olesiak
Nemeth-Rome
Benn

With the team basically rolling those guys evenly until whichever pair proves themselves as the 1/2, 3/4 etc.

Hegemon21 07-13-2012 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hull Fan (Post 52508919)
The problem is you have too many small guys and Robidas should be the odd one out but his NTC and Dallas' love affair make that unlikely for now. I totally agree Fistric's time is almost up and have no problem trading him and letting Benn be the #7. The question is will Dallas do that and only have 7 guys will NHL experience and no obvious AHL callup as backup?

I expect to see this next season:

Dillon-Daley
Larsen-Olesiak
Nemeth-Rome
Benn

With the team basically rolling those guys evenly until whichever pair proves themselves as the 1/2, 3/4 etc.

This could be an indictment of his play, but where's GoGo? :D

Hull Fan 07-13-2012 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hegemon21 (Post 52509419)
This could be an indictment of his play, but where's GoGo? :D

Seriously I totally forgot about Goligoski. Oops.

Hmm...this makes it even more difficult.

Olesiak-Goligoski
Larsen-Nemeth
Dillon-Daley
Rome

That seems the most logical though you could certainly mix up the pairs to see who gels with whom.

piqued 07-13-2012 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigG44 (Post 52508513)
What's great about this article though is you have talented D prospects that aren't even mentioned. Bystrom is not a scrub prospect.

I think the idea behind the article was to check back in on prospects that have been in the system at least a year and compare their gains to where they started, especially since it has an emphasis on size/mass.

Starsdude 07-13-2012 02:18 PM

It is also amazing to now say Jordie Benn is at least a guy who has value. What a story and is progress seems remarkable. At 24 , he is also someone who can provide organizational depth at worst.

Jere26 07-13-2012 03:54 PM

I really like what I'm hearing from Les & JJ.

You have those great prospects entering AHL and hopefully NHL in phases: First Larsen & Dillon, now Oleksiak & Nemeth, then JJ & Klingberg, followed by Vance & Bystrom and maybe Lindell. Just hope that a couple of them turn out to be real options for Gully sooner or later.

Personally I don't really get those recent remarks about Jokipakka's lack of skating ability. But as you guys said, it's important not to overanalyse the recent camp; he's been doing more than fine in SM-Liiga. Is it enough for NHL? Probably not. Seeing our prospect pool in defense, JJ will never be high-end and that was expected since the draft last year. As long as he has a shot at being a #5, #6 or #7 dman for the Stars, we can be very happy. I assume nobody here expects more from a 7th round pick.

Looking at those numerous vids taken by Mark & DBD and wow, Dillon looks so ready as you guys have already pointed out. In recent years we lacked some serious prospects in defense but still somehow managed to sign Dillon as an UFA. And look now. Some light at the end of the tunnel. After hearing and seeing lots of things about Nemeth and Oleksiak over the past year, it's unthinkable that those two won't see NHL minutes in the next few years. So pumped.

Personally I'd wait until Oleksiak has matured more and has become a beast with more physicality. Nemeth has that 'edge' already. Personally I'd keep Fistric longer as even though he makes mistakes and hasn't the greatest skillset, we need his physical presence in certain games. I bet he's got the best trade value of all our d-men that we're willing to give up. Maybe at the deadline but not yet, please. Same for Robidas, he showed glimpses of hope in certain PP situations. He's bad, but not let's make him worse than he already is. (let's stop right here until it gets too OT).

MB94 07-13-2012 04:42 PM

It feels awesome to have such a strong D prospect pool. I remember a few years back it was by far our biggest weakness. Look at us now lol. I've been reading this thread and no one really mentioned Jordie and Klingberg. I think Jordie has improved a lot, never thought he'd ever see NHL action and if so I didn't think he would have impressed at all (but he did). I honestly could see him being on our roster a couple years from now.

It's hard to predict our defense 3 years from now TBH. I honestly don't think anyone here can say with confident that _________ will be one of our defensemen three years from now. If I were to guess I would say these 7

Dillon, Goligoski, J.Benn, Nemeth, Oleksiak, Larsen and a D we pick up via trade/FA

Jere26 07-13-2012 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MB Stars (Post 52516383)
Dillon, Goligoski, J.Benn, Nemeth, Oleksiak, Larsen and a D we pick up via trade/FA

You said it yourself 'awesome to have such a strong D prospect pool'. So awesome, you forgot to mention our future captain Daley who has a limited NTC and five more years on his contract ;)

LatvianTwist 07-13-2012 04:58 PM

Daley and Goligoski are guarantees for at least the next 4 years. Larsen probably is as well. And ATM our 3 best and most ready prospects are Dillon, Oleksiak, and Nemeth. I'm not sure there are defenders in our system that can beat out anyone in that group tbh, and thats no slight at all to them, more a testament to how strong our D should be.

glovesave_35 07-13-2012 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LatvianTwist (Post 52517041)
Daley and Goligoski are guarantees for at least the next 4 years. Larsen probably is as well. And ATM our 3 best and most ready prospects are Dillon, Oleksiak, and Nemeth. I'm not sure there are defenders in our system that can beat out anyone in that group tbh, and thats no slight at all to them, more a testament to how strong our D should be.

Nobody's guaranteed anything, even with a NTC. Shocked may be a little strong but I would be surprised if both Daley and Goligoski play out their contracts in Dallas.

Mike Farkas 07-15-2012 01:10 PM

Might be old news, might not be the right place for it (sorry on both counts)...doesn't appear Ludvig Bystrom will come over to the OHL this season.

Brock 07-24-2012 07:23 AM

Didn't really know where else to put this because you guys don't have a prospect thread.

http://ohlprospects.blogspot.ca/2012...las-stars.html

Been working through all 30 NHL teams and reviewing the progress of their OHL prospects from this past season. I've also provided outlooks for next year.

Above is Dallas.

starsfan4ever 07-24-2012 09:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brock (Post 52892019)
Didn't really know where else to put this because you guys don't have a prospect thread.

http://ohlprospects.blogspot.ca/2012...las-stars.html

Been working through all 30 NHL teams and reviewing the progress of their OHL prospects from this past season. I've also provided outlooks for next year.

Above is Dallas.

Nice write-up. Regarding Campbell, the general consensus among Stars' fans is the willingness to give him a pass. The next three years we won't need him, and he still has the talent/work ethic to succeed. As long as he shows flashes, he still should rank high on any goalie list.

Cin 07-25-2012 09:41 AM

I really enjoyed that read!

I have to say that I"m with you on not being impressed with Campbell in the OHL. He definitely lacks motivation and he has something in his head that says he'll only compete when others do.

He never was high up on my radar, but he'll be expected to do big things here. No doubt in the world that he has the talent, he just needs to get his head in the game. Glennie made the turnaround, so maybe Jack can too.

On Oleksiak - His physical game is honestly starting to become a worry to me. If you're that big and rely on your stick that much, then there's a lack of confidence somewhere. Maybe Nemeth can jumpstart him in that area (Larsen had the exact same issue, and I'm sure people remember me dogging him because he wasn't physical. He picked it up, so maybe Jamie will.) Even though I'd rather he didn't rely on his stick so much, the fact is he's great at it. He's almost like a defensive Jagr with his stick if that makes any sense. He can wrap around people and quarantine them off into the corner.

I just really hope he picks up the hitting.

ginblossoms 07-25-2012 12:32 PM

Sounds to me like Oleksiak is getting the Joe Thornton treatment. He doesn't play as physical as fans would expect of a man his size because it's not part of his "personality" on the ice. He excels at other aspects of the game so much that he hasn't needed to play with that physicality yet. Thornton can get away with his style of play as a forward, but as a defenseman, Oleksiak will certainly need to develop the physical side of the game in the pros. And not necessarily with huge open ice hits, but against guys in front of the net, in the corners, etc.

As far as Larsen goes, in the beginning, he tried to play physically when his strength didn't allow him to do so successfully. He's been willing but not always excelling. In this regard, he improved significantly last season.

ginblossoms 07-25-2012 12:32 PM

I too enjoyed the write-up. Appreciate first person accounts.

LatvianTwist 07-25-2012 12:34 PM

I'm not too worried, I think it'll come with time.

Awesome write-up, loved it. I've heard mixed reviews about Campbell though, so I'm not sure what to believe.

Cin 07-25-2012 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginblossoms (Post 52947327)
Sounds to me like Oleksiak is getting the Joe Thornton treatment. He doesn't play as physical as fans would expect of a man his size because it's not part of his "personality" on the ice. He excels at other aspects of the game so much that he hasn't needed to play with that physicality yet. Thornton can get away with his style of play as a forward, but as a defenseman, Oleksiak will certainly need to develop the physical side of the game in the pros. And not necessarily with huge open ice hits, but against guys in front of the net, in the corners, etc.

As far as Larsen goes, in the beginning, he tried to play physically when his strength didn't allow him to do so successfully. He's been willing but not always excelling. In this regard, he improved significantly last season.

I'm not so sure about that. I watched him a lot here in Austin, and for a very long time he shied away from any sort of contact. It was an overnight kind of thing honestly. He came back from an injury and he instantly started hitting. Weirdest **** ever.

FrailSwan 07-25-2012 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LatvianTwist (Post 52947415)
I'm not too worried, I think it'll come with time.

Awesome write-up, loved it. I've heard mixed reviews about Campbell though, so I'm not sure what to believe.

Idk...Campbell seemed to be doing pretty well when he joined Texas at the end last season. Played 6 games, won 3 with 1 shutout. .920 sv% on a pretty terrible team, and just jumping into the fray like he did. I think he's had a commendable start to his pro career. Will be interesting to see how this season goes for him. Especially with all the epic reinforcements he's about to get.

ginblossoms 07-25-2012 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cin (Post 52951673)
I'm not so sure about that. I watched him a lot here in Austin, and for a very long time he shied away from any sort of contact. It was an overnight kind of thing honestly. He came back from an injury and he instantly started hitting. Weirdest **** ever.

OK. My perspective is from his appearances with Dallas. I'll trust your first person account in Austin. Then hopefully Oleksiak develops that physicality down in the AHL like Larsen did.


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