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-   -   Ron Francis vs Joe Sakic (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1230645)

Stars and Bolts 07-14-2012 08:42 PM

Ron Francis vs Joe Sakic
 
Both of these players are the greatest player in the history of a franchise. Each had tremendous longevity in their career and are top 10 all time in points as a result (Francis is 4th, Sakic is 9th). Sakic was a very popular player, as well as perhaps the greatest clutch goal scorer ever (record 8 OT goals in the playoffs), while Francis is the most underrated player ever (many people are surprised that he's 2nd in assists).

Who was better? The only clear answer is Francis was the better playmaker, and Sakic the better sniper. Overall who do you think was better and why?

King Woodballs 07-14-2012 08:44 PM

Man this is a close one.
Loved them both...

I pick sakic

WarriorOfGandhi 07-14-2012 08:54 PM

well, at least it's not another Yzerman vs Sakic poll

BraveCanadian 07-14-2012 08:56 PM

Both great players with great longevity.

I generally have to defend Francis from the younger crowd around here that never saw him in his earlier years because they are always trying to tear him down with the old "he played with Mario and Jagr" line.. but Ronnie Franchise was a legitimate #1 center in his own right.

Francis was better defensively, had better size/strength, and was a bit better playmaker.

However, Sakic is the better overall player.

RobMT88 07-14-2012 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi (Post 52551045)
well, at least it's not another Yzerman vs Sakic poll

Not until tomorrow.

TheDevilMadeMe 07-14-2012 09:03 PM

Sakic AINEC

TheDevilMadeMe 07-14-2012 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BraveCanadian (Post 52551109)
Both great players with great longevity.

I generally have to defend Francis from the younger crowd around here that never saw him in his earlier years because they are always trying to tear him down with the old "he played with Mario and Jagr" line.. but Ronnie Franchise was a legitimate #1 center in his own right.

Francis was better defensively, had better size/strength, and was a bit better playmaker.

However, Sakic is the better overall player.

Francis was a very good #1 quality center for 2 decades, but he was only a top 8 scorer when playing on the same line as Jaromir Jagr and his only top 10 finish without Jagr was in 2002, which was a terrible year for forwards because of injuries and a gap between generations.

Older Sakic was almost as good defensively as Francis, and much better offensively

BraveCanadian 07-14-2012 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 52551355)
Francis was a very good #1 quality center for 2 decades, but he was only a top 8 scorer when playing on the same line as Jaromir Jagr and his only top 10 finish without Jagr was in 2002, which was a terrible year for forwards because of injuries and a gap between generations.

Older Sakic was almost as good defensively as Francis, and much better offensively

Not getting into it again.. I'll just say what I always say and leave it at that: playing for Hartford and then playing behind a generational talent during what were probably Francis' best chances for top offensive seasons will do that to a guy.. Pittsburgh was just lucky enough to have two number one centers which is a big reason they won those cups.

Still agree with you though that Sakic was the better player. I just like em both.

kmad 07-14-2012 10:26 PM

Sakic, not close to being close

bp spec 07-14-2012 11:05 PM

Joe Sakic

Regal 07-14-2012 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheDevilMadeMe (Post 52551355)
Francis was a very good #1 quality center for 2 decades, but he was only a top 8 scorer when playing on the same line as Jaromir Jagr and his only top 10 finish without Jagr was in 2002, which was a terrible year for forwards because of injuries and a gap between generations.

Older Sakic was almost as good defensively as Francis, and much better offensively

I think Francis gets penalized for his linemates more than any other player. A lot of "sidekick" type players (LeClair for example) seem to get a bit of a free pass, or at least an argument for how they may have been just as good on their own. However, Francis' best years tend to get wholly attributed to a spike from playing with Jagr. I'm not saying it's the case, but I don't think it's unreasonable that a player like Francis who relied on smarts more than physical skills would peak late and age well. I think Ratelle and Sedin are similar types of players and both peaked in their late 20s-early 30s. The possibility that Francis may have actually been that good during that period never seems to come up.

That said, this poll is still obviously Sakic.

Izzy 07-15-2012 12:03 AM

Francis was an incredible player, and would destroy most other players in a poll... But Sakic takes it.

jfisher6 07-15-2012 02:05 AM

Sakic

Victorious Secret 07-15-2012 02:15 AM

Surprised how many people take Sakic over Francis. I didn't know hockey was a popularity contest.

Eskimo44 07-15-2012 02:15 AM

Francis was unreal, but c'mon Sakic is going to take this easy.

Wrath 07-15-2012 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Victorious Secret (Post 52556759)
Surprised how many people take Sakic over Francis. I didn't know hockey was a popularity contest.

Surprised people pick the #1 center of the dead puck era over a guy who scored 30+ goals 3 times in his career (all before the DPE too, so far higher scoring era), and spent his best seasons point wise with Jagr as a winger?

This doesn't need to be a popularity contest for Sakic to win. If claude lemieux or ulf samuelsson played had Sakic's career I'd take them over Francis in a heartbeat too.

Bubba88 07-15-2012 08:14 AM

really close and not really the same type of players (other than being great Cs)

I would go with even. Francis is one of those "underrated" players - 4th in scoring ALL TIME.

tony d 07-15-2012 08:27 AM

Joe Sakic

Machinehead 07-15-2012 01:53 PM

Sakic fairly easily for me.

The Red Line 07-15-2012 02:01 PM

Guessing 98% of HF hasn't ever seen Francis play, and most sadly probably don't even know who he is.

WarriorOfGandhi 07-15-2012 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba88 (Post 52558745)
I would go with even. Francis is one of those "underrated" players - 4th in scoring ALL TIME.

it's post like these that demonstrate that Francis is clearly not underrated but rather overrated. Being 4th all time in scoring (or 2nd in assists) doesn't make him the 4th best player ever, far from it. Francis was a prolific two-way player who had the luck to have his offensive prime overlap the highest-scoring era in NHL history, then have enough longevity to continue a good scoring clip into his 40s. Saying he's the equal of Sakic (whose hardware is vastly superior to Francis') is overrating him.

Machinehead 07-15-2012 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Red Line (Post 52566921)
Guessing 98% of HF hasn't ever seen Francis play, and most sadly probably don't even know who he is.

Yeah people on a hockey forum clearly would know nothing about the #4 leading scorer all time :laugh::shakehead

TheDevilMadeMe 07-15-2012 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WarriorOfGandhi (Post 52566977)
it's post like these that demonstrate that Francis is clearly not underrated but rather overrated. Being 4th all time in scoring (or 2nd in assists) doesn't make him the 4th best player ever, far from it. Francis was a prolific two-way player who had the luck to have his offensive prime overlap the highest-scoring era in NHL history, then have enough longevity to continue a good scoring clip into his 40s. Saying he's the equal of Sakic (whose hardware is vastly superior to Francis') is overrating him.

Hart Trophy finishes (min 1 vote)

Sakic: 7th in 1991, 7th in 1996, 14th in 1997, 14th in 2000, 1st in 2001, 7th in 2002, 7th in 2004, 8th in 2007

Francis: 15th in 1998, 6th in 2002

DaveG 07-15-2012 02:18 PM

This comparison does a disservice to Francis. He was an outstanding player in his own right, one of the best playmakers of an absolutely loaded generation, one of the best two-way centers in hockey history, and longevity that is almost unrivaled.

But the answer to this is clearly Sakic.


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