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-   -   Other: Bad Contract "Cap Floor" Trade (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1232117)

siddy 07-17-2012 03:21 PM

Bad Contract "Cap Floor" Trade
 
I've seen a number of threads, the Leino one most recently, that someone states that due to the nature of a front-loaded contract, in which the cap-hit is higher than the actual salary would be beneficial to a team that is trying to reach the cap floor.

Has this ever in fact happened?

I know Florida has overpaid for some free-agents to hit the floor, but has someone taken a front-loaded contract off someone's hands to reach the floor, or is this some sort of HFBoard mythos that people bring up to try to pawn off their garbage?

joestevens29 07-17-2012 03:25 PM

FLO did it when they got Campbell. Was there really a need for a new thread on this?

It's not going to happen anytime soon either as teams looking to get to the cap floor will wait until the new CBA comes out and hopefully drops the cap floor for them.

siddy 07-17-2012 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joestevens29 (Post 52639231)
FLO did it when they got Campbell. Was there really a need for a new thread on this?

It's not going to happen anytime soon either as teams looking to get to the cap floor will wait until the new CBA comes out and hopefully drops the cap floor for them.

I was only curious, as I've seen the 'cap floor trade' concept pop up a heck of a lot. I was just wondering if there have been any situations where this actually happened.

I can remove this post, if necessary.

Benji Frank 07-17-2012 03:26 PM

yeah, a few years ago, in a desparate bid to get to the cap floor montreal gave up a cheap contracted mcdonagh and a couple of picks for gomez..... oops. nope. wait a minute.

it'll start happening more often now as some of the longer term contracts singed shortly after the agreement start to wind down......

ShootIt 07-17-2012 03:27 PM

Campbell's salary and cap hit are the same.

McCabe being traded to Florida was one. His salary was 4.x million but his cap was 5.7(?)

spars 07-17-2012 03:29 PM

Wasn't the NJ/NYI Rolston for Hunter trade last summer basically this?

Zajacs Bowl Cut 07-17-2012 03:34 PM

Lubomir Visnovsky a few weeks ago to NYI

makes $3 million this year, cap hit of $5.6

Chardo 07-17-2012 03:36 PM

^ and the NYI trade for Visnovsky.

fizban 07-17-2012 03:48 PM

Yeah you haven't seen much of this yet because there aren't a whole lot of players on the back end of those front loaded contracts yet. Here's what I saw:

Gomez would save $2.5 million
Timonen saves 3.3 million
Ryan Malone 1.5
Visnovsky as mentioned above.

number72 07-17-2012 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by siddy (Post 52639103)
I've seen a number of threads, the Leino one most recently, that someone states that due to the nature of a front-loaded contract, in which the cap-hit is higher than the actual salary would be beneficial to a team that is trying to reach the cap floor.

Has this ever in fact happened?

I know Florida has overpaid for some free-agents to hit the floor, but has someone taken a front-loaded contract off someone's hands to reach the floor, or is this some sort of HFBoard mythos that people bring up to try to pawn off their garbage?

Another one was Langkow for Stempeniak trade where PHX needed a centre and has space to take more salary to hit ceiling. But Langkow didn't even have a discount in the last year. He was an expensive centre that costed the team a third liner. Even Gomez who had some cap savings was not attractive.

And this happens less frequently than we think. Souray never found a home and the same with Finger, Oletz, Huet and Redden. Some quality players there but they all found a life in the AHL or were lent to oversea teams. Even Hagman was only accepted on "re-entry" waivers at half price. And more often it happens in the last year of the player.

That said, I suspect after CBA we will see some movement because Anaheim, NYI, Nash and PHX are well below cap.

Benji Frank 07-21-2012 07:45 PM

[QUOTE=number72;52642315]And this happens less frequently than we think. Souray never found a home and the same with Finger, Oletz, Huet and Redden. Some quality players there but they all found a life in the AHL or were lent to oversea teams. Even Hagman was only accepted on "re-entry" waivers at half price. And more often it happens in the last year of the player.

QUOTE]

Even at their cash price, they were way overpaid..... Redden might come with a big cap hit of $6.5M but unfortunately, he also comes with a cash hit of $5M for the last couple of years. If the contract was structured so he was only getinng $2-3M this year and next, the Rangers would have a decent asset on their hands. Olesz cap hit is a pretty bad $3.125M this year and next and his cash hit is over $4M!!! Huet and Finger were on obsene contracts that were pretty flat cash vs cap.

Corncob 07-21-2012 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joestevens29 (Post 52639231)
FLO did it when they got Campbell. Was there really a need for a new thread on this?

Quite funny when someone posts an attempted cutting reply that is actually completely factually wrong :handclap:

Corncob 07-21-2012 08:25 PM

Rozsival from the Rangers to the Coyotes is an example of what OP was looking for.

$5 million cap hit, salary of $3 million in the last year. And they traded him for Wolski, so they saved money in actual salary whilst getting a higher cap hit.

KidRobot 07-21-2012 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spars (Post 52639387)
Wasn't the NJ/NYI Rolston for Hunter trade last summer basically this?

Nope. Rolston's cap hit and salary were both 5 mill.

DesertDawg 07-21-2012 09:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Habtacular (Post 52802623)
Rozsival from the Rangers to the Coyotes is an example of what OP was looking for.

$5 million cap hit, salary of $3 million in the last year. And they traded him for Wolski, so they saved money in actual salary whilst getting a higher cap hit.

I don't know about that, the Coyotes didn't need to hit the floor. Rosival's salary was slightly less and he was a more valuable asset to the Coyote cause

and why would people be arguing about getting to the cap floor? ATM, it does not exist and should be debated in the new CBA!

candyman82 07-21-2012 09:24 PM

Anybody think that Nashville might try to get Wade Redden from New York just to meet the cap? Providing, of course, that they don't end up matching the offer.

JGalt 07-21-2012 09:32 PM

Almost none of the guys on frontloaded deals have hit the point where they get paid significantly less than their cap hits.

CREW99AW 07-22-2012 07:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spars (Post 52639387)
Wasn't the NJ/NYI Rolston for Hunter trade last summer basically this?


Not really.

Both had struggled, both were on bad contracts.

Rolston 1 yr/$5m
Hunter 2 yrs/$4m

cfrancis 07-22-2012 08:06 AM

Best contract for this would be Tim Thomas. Cap hit and potentially $0 spent because he doesn't report and the team suspends him.

GAGLine 07-22-2012 08:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candyman82 (Post 52804105)
Anybody think that Nashville might try to get Wade Redden from New York just to meet the cap? Providing, of course, that they don't end up matching the offer.

There is no way anyone is trading for Redden. Best case scenario is that there are compliance buyouts in the new CBA. Redden gets bought out and then gets a camp invite somewhere.

ZetterBurger 07-22-2012 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAGLine (Post 52810595)
There is no way anyone is trading for Redden. Best case scenario is that there are compliance buyouts in the new CBA. Redden gets bought out and then gets a camp invite somewhere.

His salary is only $5 million with a $6.5 cap hit. I know $5 mill is probably a vast overpayment for him but he could be a good 3rd pair guy now and might seize the day with another shot at the NHL. They will need to sign a couple players for way over their worth anyways.

CREW99AW 07-22-2012 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZetterBurger (Post 52811537)
His salary is only $5 million with a $6.5 cap hit. I know $5 mill is probably a vast overpayment for him but he could be a good 3rd pair guy now and might seize the day with another shot at the NHL. They will need to sign a couple players for way over their worth anyways.

How many team go out and add a $5m, 3rd pairing d-man ?
They could sign a player over 35, then give him large unreachable bonuses.

It's one thing to have a high salaried defenseman struggle, then be demoted to the 3rd pairing. It's something else to go out and add a $5m player, who's struggled for several seasons and been demoted to the AHL.:shakehead

Also, I will be very surprised if the new cba doesn't lower the cap floor.

FissionFire 07-22-2012 10:27 AM

Bonuses not reached don't count against the cap at the end of the season so a team who did that would still end up below the cap floor.

CREW99AW 07-22-2012 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FissionFire (Post 52812399)
Bonuses not reached don't count against the cap at the end of the season so a team who did that would still end up below the cap floor.

Then if I am a team, in need of reaching the still to be determined cap floor, I give that $5m in actual salary to Doan,Rozival or Semin. Actual nhl players, still able to contribute at a strong level.

The only way I'd have interest in Redden, was if he'd A) been bought out and signed very cheaply or B) came thru re-entry waivers and cost my team $2.5m in actual salary.

candyman82 07-22-2012 11:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GAGLine (Post 52810595)
There is no way anyone is trading for Redden. Best case scenario is that there are compliance buyouts in the new CBA. Redden gets bought out and then gets a camp invite somewhere.

What if he gets snapped off of re-entry waivers leading up to the season?


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