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-   -   Stanley Cup if There's a Lockout (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1232973)

Kane One 07-19-2012 02:58 AM

Stanley Cup if There's a Lockout
 
During the last lockout, I believe a court case said that if there's another lockout, a non-NHL team could play for the Stanley Cup.

Does anyone here remember this?

http://web.archive.org/web/200712160...53935&hubname=

Quote:

A new clause will be included by the NHL in a revised agreement this year with the cup's trustees - Ian (Scotty) Morrison, former head of the Hockey Hall of Fame, and former NHL official Brian O'Neill - allowing them to award the trophy to someone else if the NHL isn't using it.
I'm interested to see if they actually allow a league such as the CHL to play for it.

Ola 07-19-2012 04:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaneone (Post 52697969)
During the last lockout, I believe a court case said that if there's another lockout, a non-NHL team could play for the Stanley Cup.

Does anyone here remember this?

http://web.archive.org/web/200712160...53935&hubname=

I'm interested to see if they actually allow a league such as the CHL to play for it.

Not suprising, and it sounds only right.

I worked with some trusts, and the legal basis for old trusts is always a mess.

Anyone know where we can find the trust deed for the trust that controlls the Stanley Cup? It ought to be public.

Could teams from a women league challenge for it? From a Junior league? From the KHL? From the AHL?

Caeldan 07-19-2012 08:42 AM

Per the article it states that the case basically declared that the trust has control over whether to allow others to challenge for it.

So it'd still have to be a high level team playing for it for them to decide to award it out (though I'm curious as to how often others could challenge for it? Also would the NHL have to have the winner of the following season's playoffs challenge to bring it back into the NHL)

La Vieille Garde 07-19-2012 08:50 AM

Why not? The first teams to win the Cup won it years before the NHL existed.

KingJet* 07-19-2012 09:11 AM

I think Detroit would've won it in 2005

Kane One 07-19-2012 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingJet (Post 52703667)
I think Detroit would've won it in 2005

Okay... What does that have to do with anything? Maybe they would have won if there was no lockout, but who cares?

Kane One 07-19-2012 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caeldan (Post 52702855)
Per the article it states that the case basically declared that the trust has control over whether to allow others to challenge for it.

So it'd still have to be a high level team playing for it for them to decide to award it out (though I'm curious as to how often others could challenge for it? Also would the NHL have to have the winner of the following season's playoffs challenge to bring it back into the NHL)

I thought once the lockout ended, the Cup would return to the NHL. They would just have the trustees decide if another team could play for it just for that year.

No Fun Shogun 07-19-2012 01:26 PM

I doubt that the CHL would be the ones to play for it, they've already got the Memorial Cup. Same goes for the AHL as well with the Calder Cup, though if I had to guess the AHL would be given first crack at it before the CHL.

.... who knows who, if anyone, would play for it?

EbencoyE 07-19-2012 01:38 PM

A tournament with all the minor league winners would be cool, AHL, ECHL, CHL, SPHL, FHL, etc.

Imagine if the Danbury Whalers pulled off the impossible and made it to the Stanley Cup Finals!

Or similarly a tournament of champions from the European leagues, though I highly doubt the trustees care about Europe.

La Vieille Garde 07-19-2012 02:03 PM

I imagine any of those leagues would forego their cups a season for a chance to win the Stanley.

They should do an historical tradition thing in my opinion and allow exactly that. Let all these leagues play for it.

ajmidd12 07-19-2012 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EbencoyE (Post 52716555)
A tournament with all the minor league winners would be cool, AHL, ECHL, CHL, SPHL, FHL, etc.

Imagine if the Danbury Whalers pulled off the impossible and made it to the Stanley Cup Finals!

Or similarly a tournament of champions from the European leagues, though I highly doubt the trustees care about Europe.

Great idea, similar to Europe's Champions League in soccer, only in this case the "tournament" would be the Stanley Cup Playoffs

Kane One 07-19-2012 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun (Post 52716003)
I doubt that the CHL would be the ones to play for it, they've already got the Memorial Cup. Same goes for the AHL as well with the Calder Cup, though if I had to guess the AHL would be given first crack at it before the CHL.

.... who knows who, if anyone, would play for it?

The court case started because technically the Cup is supposed to be awarded to "the top amateur hockey team in Canada". I doubt any team outside of Canada will be given permission.

You don't think the CHL would rather have the Stanley Cup for one season instead of the Memorial Cup?

saskriders 07-19-2012 03:07 PM

Imagine the fit Gary and Bill would have if the KHL won it

No Fun Shogun 07-19-2012 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaneone (Post 52719019)
The court case started because technically the Cup is supposed to be awarded to "the top amateur hockey team in Canada". I doubt any team outside of Canada will be given permission.

You don't think the CHL would rather have the Stanley Cup for one season instead of the Memorial Cup?

Well yeah.... that's how it started, but I don't think that the agreement that the NHL came to with the Cup trustees necessarily stipulated that it had to be a Canadian team that wins it in the event of the lockout.

And if the CHL does get the rights to the Cup for a year, then the Portland Winterhawks would just win it and crush everyone's dreams. :laugh:

As for if the CHL would want it.... that's not the issue. It'd be what the Cup trustees want, and I'm not sure if they'd want to do that when the CHL already has a very prestigious Canadian trophy already.... though anyone's guess is as good/bad as anyone's, obviously. Now that I've thought about it some, though.... I'm am leaning more towards the AHL getting a crack at it in terms of likelihood, as it'd be the highest level of hockey in North America should the NHL lockout and you'd have a pretty good chance of some NHLers going down there to play for a season if the NHL was locked out, thereby increasing the talent pool even more.

No Fun Shogun 07-19-2012 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saskriders (Post 52721199)
Imagine the fit Gary and Bill would have if the KHL won it

Just about the only thing I think we can guarantee is that the Cup won't be allowed to be won by a non-North American team. Just can't imagine the Cup trustees okaying something like that at this point in time.

Confucius 07-19-2012 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saskriders (Post 52721199)
Imagine the fit Gary and Bill would have if the KHL won it

Never be allowed to play for it. I'd think it would be up for grabs to any team in Canada.

danishh 07-19-2012 03:18 PM

would be interesting to award it in the memorial cup tournament this year.

then the following season you'd have the NHL playoff winner playing the kitchener rangers (for example) to win the cup back.

Think of the money that would generate for the CHL.

Kane One 07-19-2012 03:19 PM

Are NHL players even allowed to play in the AHL during a lockout?

Does anyone remember if they were last time?

danishh 07-19-2012 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaneone (Post 52721857)
Are NHL players even allowed to play in the AHL during a lockout?

Does anyone remember if they were last time?

yes, they are, but the AHL has veteran player limits, so not all could.

last lockout there were some older players, but for the most part it was young NHLers. Best player in the AHL that year was 21 year old Jason Spezza of the binghamton senators, who had played 111 NHL games already.

Confucius 07-19-2012 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danishh (Post 52722065)
yes, they are, but the AHL has veteran player limits, so not all could.

last lockout there were some older players, but for the most part it was young NHLers. Best player in the AHL that year was 21 year old Jason Spezza of the binghamton senators, who had played 111 NHL games already.

I don't know why they are allowed to. I work in a union, if we go on strike I'm not allowed to work somewhere else. Why would the labour laws be different for the NHL? Makes no sense.

Melrose Munch 07-19-2012 03:43 PM

It remains in Toronto. Then My Leafs can say we won.

Kane One 07-19-2012 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stix and Stones (Post 52722997)
I don't know why they are allowed to. I work in a union, if we go on strike I'm not allowed to work somewhere else. Why would the labour laws be different for the NHL? Makes no sense.

They aren't going on strike.

No Fun Shogun 07-19-2012 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danishh (Post 52721843)
then the following season you'd have the NHL playoff winner playing the kitchener rangers (for example) to win the cup back.

.... wat?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stix and Stones (Post 52722997)
I don't know why they are allowed to. I work in a union, if we go on strike I'm not allowed to work somewhere else. Why would the labour laws be different for the NHL? Makes no sense.

That wouldn't apply here, though. Being locked out =/= going on strike.

Confucius 07-19-2012 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaneone (Post 52723337)
They aren't going on strike.

I see, lockout is different, thanks. Let me tell you how the last lockout I was involved in turned out. We were locked out, the Government ordered us back...... Ripley's believe it or not.:laugh:

JoeCool16 07-19-2012 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stix and Stones (Post 52724051)
I see, lockout is different, thanks. Let me tell you how the last lockout I was involved in turned out. We were locked out, the Government ordered us back...... Ripley's believe it or not.:laugh:

I doubt that hockey would qualify as an essential service... although that would be nice since it would certainly speed things up!


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