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-   -   Chicago Blackhawks Quest For The Cup (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1233301)

HockeySensible 07-19-2012 03:45 PM

Chicago Blackhawks Quest For The Cup
 


Prett sweet video. Can they do it? YES THEY CAN!

BobbyJet 07-19-2012 04:59 PM

Nice highlights, but no they can't. Not presently.

zytz 07-19-2012 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyJet (Post 52729783)
Nice highlights, but no they can't. Not presently.

Disagree

BobbyJet 07-19-2012 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zytz (Post 52732137)
Disagree

It is easy to forget, and the product we had on the ice most nights: The failed specialty teams, poor coaching, goaltending and team defence. The off season will do that to fans.

zac 07-19-2012 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zytz (Post 52732137)
Disagree

Lol, what? Have you watched this team at ALL the last few years? Our coaching staff is probably the worst in the NHL as depicted in our complete lack of fundamental team hockey. The absence of accountability and or direction by our staff has also led to visible regression in individual (fundamental) play. When a team emulates the characteristics of a good coach, that's a great thing. When it emulates characteristics of ****** coach it's a very bad thing.

This team is ****ed until there's a regime change. I actually think our chances of MISSING the playoffs are much greater than our chances of making the SC finals, let alone the chances of winning them. I'm fully prepared to turn several games off in disgust (or take two week breaks out of frustration). You should be too.

zac 07-19-2012 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BobbyJet (Post 52732495)
It is easy to forget, and the product we had on the ice most nights: The failed specialty teams, poor coaching, goaltending and team defence. The off season will do that to fans.

I don't think that's even possible unless you are just a casual fan.

Chris Hansen 07-19-2012 08:09 PM

No, unfortunately, the team as it is currently constructed is not winning the Cup, and I doubt they come close either. Taking in the same roster that's lost in the first round two years in a row and was lucky to even make the playoffs one of those years... how is it suddenly going to transform into a SCF team? Not going to happen, even though I wish that wasn't true.

Cullksinikers 07-19-2012 08:36 PM

The Blackhawks will improve in the standings due to teams around them falling apart, not since they improved. Some glaring holes exist. No Cup until they are filled.

Bubba88 07-20-2012 05:10 AM

going into the 09/10 season

no #1 goalie
needed 1 more Top4 DMen
no #2 Center

coldsteelonice84 07-20-2012 07:12 AM

We had 3 top pairing D-men then. That's the difference. Campbell on this team instead of Oduya, sure, I'm optimistic.

ChiHawk21 07-20-2012 08:38 AM

Hawks can win this year

hawksfan50 07-20-2012 10:00 AM

so there are the skeptics/pessimists ,the hopeful optimists,and the cautious IF everything goes right camp..


Let us look at the 3 camps:


1. THE skeptics/pessimists: these are led by types like JJ over at hockeybuzz.com who in his most recent blog there completely trashes Stanbow,the coaching staff,and Brandon Saad ...he is correct of the coaching staff--but the fault is not as he implies improper systemms or the comptency of the coaches but rather the ATTTITUDE of Q in letting certain star players get away with lazy play too often as if working hard for 60 minutes as professionals should and like they do on lots of less talentd teams who got further in the playoffs is beneath the values of higly paid fat cat cheque-casher "stars" ... Q is responsible for a country club atmoshere of laxity ---refusing to bench certain stars when they get lazy,refusing to bag-skate the team when they produce fiascoes like the poundings EDM gave them,or in that 9 game losing streak.. The players TOO a lot of responsibility THEMSLEVES for not excecuting the system Q and his staff gave them-BUT they can't concentrate on that and get any success UNLESS they are prepared to work harder more often.
IF Kan or anyone else plays with disinterest from mid-nov though to March 1st as if it is a chore to get through games and concentratingmore on the cheques arriving for deposit to their fat bank accounts AND Q does nothing about it this year--THEN
that coaching staff will have to walk the plank.Q knows this-therefore THIS YEAR i expect far less tolerance of lazy disinterested play . Players will have to work harder and be more responsible both for their own roles and in support of teammates..
So we shall see if the pessimists are way off and the tougher coaching ATTITUDE will make our team much more competitive...

AS to the failure of STANBOW to address the needs: 2nd line C,#3 D,elite goalie--well NO TEAM in the NHL has everything--BUT STANBOW shouild have solved at least 1 of these 3 needs...
Maybe he does --there is still time before the season starts (Perhaps starts late if CBA not signed in time) to make trades-or MORE LIKELY we have cap room to make a trade deadlkine acquisition IF the needs still are glaring..

The lament that STan never replaced the essential ingredients that got us a CUP --LADD,BUFF,VERSTEEG,NIEMI ---is a valid critique except for the cap problems forcing their departures..ALSO CAMPBELL was a part of that CUP success and he has not been replaced though his cap savings do help us now IF we can add something of real impact back...IF STANBOW's add from within/"position of strength" mantra fails AND he also fails to add an impact guy via pre- or mid-season trade or by the trade deadline--THEN if the season fails the pessimists will shout that they were correct all along. That we were doomd from the getgo this season...

FInally the trashing of SAAD and other pipeline kids by the skeptics.. JJ cites SAAD as only a 2nd rounder so we cannot expect impact,and how all the other GM's passed on him till we took him at #43 and this because of some implied consensus tht Saad could dominate against smaller kids in Jr. but NEVER would do so in the great NHL ....OR JJ skoffs at SAAD's experiment at centre..and accuses him of sleepwalking through Pospects Camp ----but didn't SAAD score 2 goals and an assist in the final scrimmage ? This after asking the coaches to let him play centre? MAYBE HE CAN PLAY CENTRE? Don't know about his face-off work BUT surley I don't se why he is any worse choice at centre that PAtrick Kane ---who was not good on face-offs and due to size (which is not a problem for SAAD) will have problems defending bigger stronger centres...BUT we shall see... EVEN If SAAD plays LW--- JJ skoffs at him being reaady fr a top six position and cites all the big Jr. scorers who failed.. BUT he leaves out the big Jr, scoreers who succeeded ,but SAAD can't because he was not a first rounder? Also that the Hawks have not yet seen SAAD impact in the NHL
(so because t hasn't happened it cannot happem?) ...Q and Bowman say SAAD is ready --to the skeptics this is mere hyping as a PLAN B after the fail to land a "splash" in the UFA sweeps...

THE pointabout SAAD is this: AT the time of his draft I myself pleaded to AVOID drafting him--but I did not realize his poor play in the 2nd half of his draft year was due to lingering effects of his groin injury...I had expected that if his dctors cleared him for play he could go "all out" to his normal level of effectiveness (remember Central Scouting had him #8 overall at mid-season rankings in NA skaters-so at that time no hockey "experts" thought he wasn't anearly first rounder candidate--that he feell so much in the 2nd half with poor uninspired play and little effectiveness caused his big drop to be taken only at #43 ---but obviously the explanation ( lack of motivation and effort-not the talent level) was wrong as the next season he doid play hard and dominated the oHL ...THAT to me was the REAL SAAD -the difference in play was like night and day .I was wrong to buy in to the "experts" explanation STILL advocated by skeptics like JJ (who i doubt ever saw SAAD play in the ohl last season and tear it up) that SAAD is inconsistent with his effort or can't dominate at the next level against stronger players--the first objection is wrong,the 2nd ignores the abilities/talent i did see from him last year. OF course he doesn't have the burning desire of an ANDREW SHAW--neither does PAT KANe and he can succeed (WHEN he wants to -but that want is the issue) because he has talent. JJ is a fool if he thinks SAAD had no talent...

CAN SAAD succed for us as a top six guy? WELL don';t expect the 2nd coming of Corey Perry--but if any rookie can prodice 20+goals and 25-30 asssts I think you would call it a good rookie year-- I do not see why he can't do at least that -more IF his star teamates decide they will play harder this year..

Now if they do not give SAAD PP time you cannot expect 30 goals ..BUT if he does
then somebody else in the top 6 will be failing on the PP --and THEN what will JJJ say-that that guy can't impact in the NHL? BTW--how are ONLY 5 PP goals from Toews and ONLY 4 PP goals from KANE "impacting"? MAYBE SAAD can do at least as ell or BETTER?

LEt us not but "hype" but let us not also state categorically that SAAD will fail..that seems ridiculous . I saw BOBBY RYAN PLAY as JR.--so too SAAD- I can tell you I was more skeptical of RYAN ever impacting in the NHL than I am of SAAD doing at least as well as RYAN--but that SAAD failed to impress in his late NHL playoff "experience"
-well it is a small sample of games plus the nerves of a first NHL playoff experience--don't think it is fair to write off a career just from that tiny sample of a couple of playoff games ..THE HAWKS had other problems affecting team play too at the time.

IS SAAD the "saviour"? NO. Can he be an impactful top six guy? WHY NOT? Let us wait and see . I willnot write him off before the season even starts.


2. THe optimists: These types are hopeful that with a better ATTITUDE and less toleance for laxity by the coaching staff AND a RE-OCUS by certain core "starrs" who did not bring their best OFTEN ENOUGH last year but willthis year,AND luck with injuries,AND some valuable conributions from newbies (SAAD,a full-year of SHAW, BROOKBANK ,and a full year from Montador,improvement from KRUGER though maybe he plays 4th lkine) -AND declines in the CENTRAL ( the Hitcock effect starts-as USUAL-to wane for STL and they won't be as dedicated as last year;NASHVILLE losing SUTER and WEBER if he stays turnig "fat cat" ; DET --loss of Lidstrom,Hudler,
Holmstrom geezerd out--and Zetterberg and Datsyuk another year on the geezer meter--so IN DECLINE----why not be more optimistic for the Hawks?


3. The cautious: the will be contributions better than expected;there willbe disappointments providing lesser contribution than we expect...LUCK with injuries-- maybe /maybe not...Rebound year from Crawford..maybe,maybe not?
THe point about a CUP run is the timing of meshing and catching the wave at the right time just as the playoffs begin,not getting injuries in the playoffs, having at hot goalie,and everyone buying in and contributing_IF we get all of these---WHY NOT?
WE cannot count on all of these but if they occurr -we have as good a shot at anyone. AS to our needs-we probably willneed a trade deadline infusion --so at this point the cautious remain only that -not willing to be over-pessimistic,nor overly optimistic.

MagicSlap* 07-20-2012 02:41 PM

JJ and his cult of devotees are just some of the most clueless people on the planet.

Hawkaholic 07-20-2012 04:14 PM

I dont think we can in 2013, but there is no doubt in my mind that in 2014 and on we will be top contenders every year with our prospects getting better, our core getting better and some nice FA additions.

Tallons awful signings and crappy drafting really set this team back a few years after the cup win. If we had good drafting from 07 and on, we would be golden right now. Would of helped if there was a good year with good free agents the last 2 years too.

Bubba88 07-20-2012 05:36 PM

I think we can win next year - I just doubt it will happen

Rexy 07-20-2012 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkaholic (Post 52767877)
I dont think we can in 2013, but there is no doubt in my mind that in 2014 and on we will be top contenders every year with our prospects getting better, our core getting better and some nice FA additions.

Tallons awful signings and crappy drafting really set this team back a few years after the cup win. If we had good drafting from 07 and on, we would be golden right now. Would of helped if there was a good year with good free agents the last 2 years too.

lol tell me more of how bad a GM Dale Tallon was.

Bubba88 07-21-2012 08:12 AM

he is right about that. If we don't win the Cup that year, Tallon would be remembered as one of the worst GMs in Hawks history ;)

Rexy 07-21-2012 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba88 (Post 52785625)
he is right about that. If we don't win the Cup that year, Tallon would be remembered as one of the worst GMs in Hawks history ;)

but we wont the cup that year. I don't understand the "if/if not" game. We did, end of story.

The team went from 28th, 26th, 20th, 6th (WCF) 3rd (Stanley Cup Champs)

What a garbage GM! That's an awful five year turnaround!

Sarava 07-21-2012 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bubba88 (Post 52785625)
he is right about that. If we don't win the Cup that year, Tallon would be remembered as one of the worst GMs in Hawks history ;)

If Bobby Hull didn't' score 610 goals, then he would have been a horrible goalscorer.

Rexy 07-21-2012 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sarava (Post 52792585)
If Bobby Hull didn't' score 610 goals, then he would have been a horrible goalscorer.

lol win

Hawkaholic 07-21-2012 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexy (Post 52792399)
but we wont the cup that year. I don't understand the "if/if not" game. We did, end of story.

The team went from 28th, 26th, 20th, 6th (WCF) 3rd (Stanley Cup Champs)

What a garbage GM! That's an awful five year turnaround!

He made a few good trades, thats about it.

His drafting was awful, and his contract negotiating was awful.

Rexy 07-21-2012 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkaholic (Post 52796139)
He made a few good trades, thats about it.

His drafting was awful, and his contract negotiating was awful.

your right, he's by far the worst GM ever. His Stanley Cup ring means nothing. Because that was Stan's team. Disregard the fact that the only player Stan had brought to the team was Nick Boynton. That was Stan's team.

hockeydoug 07-21-2012 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rexy (Post 52799123)
your right, he's by far the worst GM ever. His Stanley Cup ring means nothing. Because that was Stan's team. Disregard the fact that the only player Stan had brought to the team was Nick Boynton. That was Stan's team.

Considering all the moves made after Scotty Bowman got there, it's tough to call it Dale's team either. I think Scotty did more than both of them to get the team to the next level in 2009 and over the top the next year. Then we have to give McDonough credit for getting Scotty Bowman over to Chicago too.

MadhouseOnMadison 07-21-2012 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hockeydoug (Post 52800997)
Considering all the moves made after Scotty Bowman got there, it's tough to call it Dale's team either. I think Scotty did more than both of them to get the team to the next level in 2009 and over the top the next year. Then we have to give McDonough credit for getting Scotty Bowman over to Chicago too.

Scotty Bowman didn't take Florida to the playoffs for the first time in over a decade and got them just as far in the playoffs as Stan did with a much more talented Hawks team.

I think it's hard to argue that Dale isn't a much better GM than Stan and regardless of what Scotty's contributions were back when Dale was still a part of the organization we're actively seeing him turn around another bottom feeding team in a short amount of time.

madgoat33 07-21-2012 07:51 PM

do any of you think tallon could have done any better a job managing the horrible cap situation he put the hawks in? Especially while making the playoffs every year and maintaining a good pipeline.


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