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-   -   OT: PSU Death Penalty? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1234611)

DrinkFightFlyers 07-22-2012 08:29 AM

PSU Death Penalty?
 
I know this is off topic and not-hockey related, but I also know there are a lot of Penn State fans, alumni, and students around here and no college football thread. Anyway, looks like PSU is could get some pretty harsh sanctions tomorrow.

Quote:

A source tells CBS News that the NCAA's penalties, aimed at both the school and its football program, will be "unprecedented," with an official announcement coming Monday morning.
http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footbal...ies-penn-state

4thline4life 07-22-2012 08:51 AM

I haven't watched college football in years because the ncaa is a joke and it looks like it continues here. The ncaa is about student athletes, no student athletes were involved and no ncaa rules were broken. But this again is the ncaa, so to no surprise they will make some up to look right and just. and this is coming from someone who went to pitt..

DrinkFightFlyers 07-22-2012 08:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheIceman26 (Post 52810989)
I haven't watched college football in years because the ncaa is a joke and it looks like it continues here. The ncaa is about student athletes, no student athletes were involved and no ncaa rules were broken. But this again is the ncaa, so to no surprise they will make some up to look right and just. and this is coming from someone who went to pitt..

Yeah but they also need to police the coaches and the universities involved with the football program. If they get the death penalty, I think the thinking behind it would be they should not be able to benefit from the football program that makes them millions of dollars a year when the football program took part in such horrible acts and then proceeded to cover it up.

El Dandy* 07-22-2012 09:00 AM

I think the death penalty is all but certain.

Took 30 years for SMU to recover and they are still trying to get back where they were.

Alchemy 07-22-2012 09:02 AM

This could cripple their football program.

4thline4life 07-22-2012 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers (Post 52811057)
Yeah but they also need to police the coaches and the universities involved with the football program. If they get the death penalty, I think the thinking behind it would be they should not be able to benefit from the football program that makes them millions of dollars a year when the football program took part in such horrible acts and then proceeded to cover it up.

That isn't their job...the entire thing is awful no doubt, but the ncaa should have nothing to do with it. It comes off as nothing more than getting good pr.

Jack de la Hoya 07-22-2012 09:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheIceman26 (Post 52811171)
That isn't their job...the entire thing is awful no doubt, but the ncaa should have nothing to do with it. It comes off as nothing more than getting good pr.

The NCAA is probably the third least competent sporting body in the world--behind, in some order, the IOC and FIFA. They should have nothing to do with it for the reasons mentioned here, but they do like to inject themselves wherever they can align themselves on the "good" side of an issue without compromising their bottom line.

This is a tricky issue, though. The range of normal sanctions can't really be applied in this case--it doesn't make any sense to reduce scholarships, limit postseason play, etc. It is difficult to figure out what the NCAA could do other than cancel the football program, despite how little sense that makes.

UPDATE: According to ESPN, it seems likely that the punishment will include scholarships and bowl appearances, but not, it would seem, ending the program as such.

Quote:

A source who also called the penalties unprecedented and harsh told ESPN's Joe Schad they will likely include a loss of bowl appearances and/or scholarships. It is expected the NCAA Division I Board of Directors and/or the NCAA Executive Committee has granted Emmert the authority to punish through non-traditional methods, the source said. To any degree, the NCAA is taking unprecedented measures with the decision to penalize Penn State without the traditional due process of a Committee on Infractions hearing.
http://espn.go.com/college-football/...-nittany-lions

The piece also makes the point that ANY penalty is "unprecedented" because it was leveled without an independent NCAA investigation.

Alchemy 07-22-2012 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheIceman26 (Post 52811171)
That isn't their job...the entire thing is awful no doubt, but the ncaa should have nothing to do with it. It comes off as nothing more than getting good pr.

Which is what the NCAA is about. Money. It's a business that their own athletes that make them don't even benefit from. I've never liked college sports because of that.

Zbynek 07-22-2012 09:14 AM

As a PSU student who just graduated in May and spent the past 4 years in State College, I can firmly attest that it would be a huge mistake if Penn State football gets the "death penalty".

Why blame the students, the players, those who weren't involved whatsoever? All that would do is make it straight up impossible for Penn State to ever recover from this whole fiasco. You purge the administration and staff and start over. You don't axe the whole football team.

Alchemy 07-22-2012 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zbynek (Post 52811261)
As a PSU student who just graduated in May and spent the past 4 years in State College, I can firmly attest that it would be a huge mistake if Penn State football gets the "death penalty".

Why blame the students, the players, those who weren't involved whatsoever? All that would do is make it straight up impossible for Penn State to ever recover from this whole fiasco. You purge the administration and staff and start over. You don't axe the whole football team.

Agree. This is all about PR and protecting the NCAA brand.

Krishna 07-22-2012 09:22 AM

As a person who hates penn state students :
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.co...3575553872.gif

As an outside, don't kill the team because the problems of a few people

Larry44 07-22-2012 09:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sm0ka47 (Post 52811115)
This could cripple their football program.

So what? It's only college football. If the guys running it for years think the program is more important than abusing little boys and harbouring their abuser the football team should be dissolved. The players can go elsewhere, the rest can die in shame like coach what's his name, the diddler enabler?

Brostradamus 07-22-2012 09:29 AM

It's a tough call with this. The main argument against is because none of the athletes at any point and time had anything to do with this. Also what most people don't realize is the Penn State football program pays for most of the other athletics at the University further punishing people that had nothing to do this disgusting crime.

From the articles I have read, the word "unprecedented" continues to be thrown around which would lead me to believe that the death penalty will not be used since that is not unprecedented. Something absolutely needs to be done to ensure nothing like this happens again at Penn State or any University anywhere.

Really don't know what the "fair" or "necessary" punishment is. Will banning football or anything help the victims heal faster? Most of this seems to be a public image issue of the NCAA and I guess we will see what they decide tomorrow.

Alchemy 07-22-2012 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Larry44 (Post 52811427)
So what? It's only college football. If the guys running it for years think the program is more important than abusing little boys and harbouring their abuser the football team should be dissolved. The players can go elsewhere, the rest can die in shame like coach what's his name, the diddler enabler?

That's not the students and players of the programs fault. It was an administrative problem. Their administration should be the one that is punished.

El Dandy* 07-22-2012 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sm0ka47 (Post 52811493)
That's not the students and players of the programs fault. It was an administrative problem. Their administration should be the one that is punished.

In fairness, the players should become basically UFA's transfers who can sign anywhere and not sit out a year like the players at SMU did.

Krishna 07-22-2012 09:34 AM

Would tuition for students go up if they shut down the team or took away a ton of scholarships?

Jack de la Hoya 07-22-2012 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LegionofDoom627 (Post 52811461)
It's a tough call with this. The main argument against is because none of the athletes at any point and time had anything to do with this. Also what most people don't realize is the Penn State football program pays for most of the other athletics at the University further punishing people that had nothing to do this disgusting crime.

From the articles I have read, the word "unprecedented" continues to be thrown around which would lead me to believe that the death penalty will not be used since that is not unprecedented. Something absolutely needs to be done to ensure nothing like this happens again at Penn State or any University anywhere.

Really don't know what the "fair" or "necessary" punishment is. Will banning football or anything help the victims heal faster? Most of this seems to be a public image issue of the NCAA and I guess we will see what they decide tomorrow.

Yeah, I don't know what to think.

I do think "unprecedented" is pretty easy to explain--since the NCAA has not done its normal investigation, given the university the option to respond, etc., any penalty is unprecedented, at least as the process is concerned.

It just seems a bit...odd... to terminate the football program when the principle offender hasn't coached there in more than a decade and is in jail, the alleged group of those engaged in either gross incompetence or an active cover up are either deceased or terminated, and none of the victims had any connection whatsoever to the university.

The "smoking gun"--that key parties involves knew that Sandusky was investigated (and cleared) in the late 1990s--and thus should have reacted more aggressively to later allegations is both difficult to fault and yet still somehow unsettling.

Mostly, though, none of this makes any sense to me. THere is simply no logical reason why the university would have actively covered up for Sandusky. It certainly wasn't to "protect" the football program--since he wasn't on staff during most of the time in question, and swift action to terminate him would have done far more to protect the program and the university than covering it up. They had literally nothing to gain and everything to lose from the course that they took--which makes me think it was more a matter of incompetence than intent.

:dunno:

bigplay41 07-22-2012 09:49 AM

I doubt it's a death penalty but huge fines, bowl sanctions, scholarship sanctions

Jack de la Hoya 07-22-2012 09:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetNation (Post 52811781)
I doubt it's a death penalty but huge fines, bowl sanctions, scholarship sanctions

David Jones and others are speculated that a TV ban might might sense in lieu of a death penalty, for which the NCAA's own by-laws really don't allow for here (no "repeat offender" status).

But, like I said above, it is all speculative. The NCAA doesn't run on precedent. Baylor got docked a few non-conference games or something when its head coach helped cover up a murder by a basketball player. Go figure.

mm6492 07-22-2012 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 52811565)
Would tuition for students go up if they shut down the team or took away a ton of scholarships?

Yes. And State Colleges economy would be f'd.

Krishna 07-22-2012 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mm6492 (Post 52812505)
Yes. And State Colleges economy would be f'd.

It was already ****ed once they took away the 90m in funding last year

edit : thought you meant state colleges not state college, pa

RespectTheCouts 07-22-2012 11:35 AM

The NCAA is a joke and will always be a joke, not really their job to come in a drop the hammer on the program, the university itself should clean house, and get rid of everyone under Paterno's rule there, they have to already try and come back from this disgusting tradegy, I say go after all parties involved take away everything Paterno has won or lost, erase it from the record books, and make it not count, hurt his legacy by erasing it along with Sandusky and everyone else involved, these victims will never recover from what happened to them, and all the brass at PSU covering it up is unacceptable, taking away the football program I guess could insure this never happens again, but isn't the right action to take here

Flyerfan808 07-22-2012 11:42 AM

I disagree with all of it. Sandusky had his day in court and it is over. For the NCAA to come in and punish the students,coaches,faculty, and the city for the hanous nature of his crimes is unjust.

Appleyard 07-22-2012 11:53 AM

Damaging the school and all the other sports programs by giving the death penalty would be like giving a murderers children, friends and associates 5 year prison sentences... the players, the majority of staff, etc, had no clue about this. Individuals should be punished, and have been, but the program itself, which would damage the school, and individuals, should not be.

MRxBLACK 07-22-2012 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krishna (Post 52811565)
Would tuition for students go up if they shut down the team or took away a ton of scholarships?

I'm sure. That's why I'm glad I have only one more semester to pay for.


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