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Chainshot 07-22-2012 11:52 AM

Around the NHL VII - NHL Hockey Returns!
 
A place for....

League stuff. Not Sabres stuff.

joshjull 07-22-2012 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beerz (Post 52813795)
They've talked about moving Eric to wing.

Its something Bobby Mac said after the trade happened.



For the life of me I don't understand why. They could have an incredible 1-2 punch up the middle if the stayed on seperate lines.

HockeyH3aven 07-22-2012 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshjull (Post 52814127)
Its something Bobby Mac said after the trade happened.



For the life of me I don't understand why. They could have an incredible 1-2 punch up the middle if the stayed on seperate lines.

Yeah, that would be really dumb to change his position now. A lot of what they each bring to the center position is very important. Moving one because you feel the need to have them play on the same line is just nonsensical.

Chainshot 07-22-2012 12:13 PM

The 'Canes pre-and-post-game host was on with Sylvester. He said the scuttlebutt is to have each of the Staals playing center as a 1/2 combo down the middle, that they're not going to move one to the wing. Seems more logical to have that sort of dynamite duo than to lump everyone onto just one line.

TheyAreGoodScaryGood 07-22-2012 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshjull (Post 52814127)
Its something Bobby Mac said after the trade happened.



For the life of me I don't understand why. They could have an incredible 1-2 punch up the middle if the stayed on seperate lines.

They are trying to get there own sedin twins

joshjull 07-22-2012 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chainshot (Post 52814541)
The 'Canes pre-and-post-game host was on with Sylvester. He said the scuttlebutt is to have each of the Staals playing center as a 1/2 combo down the middle, that they're not going to move one to the wing. Seems more logical to have that sort of dynamite duo than to lump everyone onto just one line.

Thanks for passing this along. That certainly makes more sense. They could be a Sedin/Kesler type combo.

New Sabres Captain 07-22-2012 12:18 PM

They could still put them both together on the PP if they wanted to, so it's not as if they'd never play together anyways.

Chainshot 07-22-2012 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshjull (Post 52814611)
Thanks for passing this along. That certainly makes more sense. They could be a Sedin/Kesler type combo.

It was Buffalo ex-pat and former local sports radio guy Mike Maniscalco. He's talked about how Muller has done much for Eric, the talk there is about him having the tandem in the middle, working Skinner in on the wing and is probably why the Canes are trying so hard for Nash so that they could have their own 2-line mismatch akin to the Pens.

struckbyaparkedcar 07-22-2012 01:08 PM

Speaking of Nash, you have to think that Howson is doing a rain dance hoping Nashville doesn't match the Flyers offer sheet.

Before that, the Rangers could legitimately say "the best acquisition anyone in our conference made was Mike Ribeiro, none of the four teams who were more talented than us (Boston/Jersey/Philly/Pittsburgh) added significant pieces, and the Devils and Penguins actually got worse. Why should we trade a king's ransom for Nash when we can just sit on our hands until the deadline and maybe even get in on better players for cheaper depending on how Getzlaf/Perry/whoever else play out?"

Up until now, the Jackets best motivator was the specter of the in-conference big makret teams making huge moves at and after the draft, and the fact that the Rangers weren't good enough despite getting the easiest road to the Finals they're likely to see. Before the offer sheet, none of those things had materialized, and standing-pat still had the Rangers as (at least) a top four team in the East. If the Flyers get Weber, they're all of a sudden the best team in the Conference (and maybe the league) and a serious obstacle for a Rangers team that's going to mature either before (Lundqvist/Richards/Gabby) or with (McDonaugh/MDZ/Krieder/etc) the Flyers building blocks.

Timbo Slice 07-22-2012 02:04 PM

Homer still a courtin'? Awesome :laugh:

Moskau 07-22-2012 02:30 PM

Kind of pathetic to me that there's a very good chance Nashville has to take the 4 1sts. Going to be some fun CBA negotiations.

slip 07-22-2012 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moskau (Post 52818625)
Kind of pathetic to me that there's a very good chance Nashville has to take the 4 1sts. Going to be some fun CBA negotiations.

People can say what they want about Holmgren (not you in particular Moskau), the guy took a sinking Flyers team and turned that ship around on a dime -- 5 straight PO appearances since taking over from Bobby Clarke early in the 2006 season, and failing to move out to first round only once. Granted, there's no Cup in his trophy cabinet yet, but he remains of the most deal-savvy GMs in professional sports extant.

struckbyaparkedcar 07-22-2012 04:01 PM

Until he wins a Cup I just don't think you can say that, especially considering the centerpiece return for the Richards/Carter trades is the biggest obstacle to their contendership.

SundherDome 07-22-2012 04:07 PM

Any one have any info on phoenix and their ownership?

SundherDome 07-22-2012 04:41 PM

Any one have any info on phoenix and their ownership?

HOOats 07-22-2012 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by struckbyaparkedcar (Post 52821157)
Until he wins a Cup I just don't think you can say that, especially considering the centerpiece return for the Richards/Carter trades is the biggest obstacle to their contendership.

Who of B. Schenn, Couturier, Simmonds and Voracek is their biggest obstacle to contention? Or did I miss the point? Seems like those moves have locked in a 5 year window of contention to me.

Holmgren has been very active and IMO quite impressive. By my count he's made 54 trades since he started in late 2006 while Darcy has made 27. The Flyers were in pretty crummy condition when he took the helm. The Forsberg-Timonen/Hartnell deals in particular have been crucial to their 5 straight post-seasons. He's a good, active GM, 95% of Sabre fans would swap Darcy for him (I hope).

Flyers Trades

Sabres Trades

Beerz 07-22-2012 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOOats (Post 52822365)
Who of B. Schenn, Couturier, Simmonds and Voracek is their biggest obstacle to contention? Or did I miss the point? Seems like those moves have locked in a 5 year window of contention to me.

Holmgren has been very active and IMO quite impressive. By my count he's made 54 trades since he started in late 2006 while Darcy has made 27. The Flyers were in pretty crummy condition when he took the helm. The Forsberg-Timonen/Hartnell deals in particular have been crucial to their 5 straight post-seasons. He's a good, active GM, 95% of Sabre fans would swap Darcy for him (I hope).

Flyers Trades

Sabres Trades

I believe he meant the freed up cap space facilitated the Brygz signing.......and that is still their biggest obstacle.

Beerz 07-22-2012 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOOats (Post 52822365)
Who of B. Schenn, Couturier, Simmonds and Voracek is their biggest obstacle to contention? Or did I miss the point? Seems like those moves have locked in a 5 year window of contention to me.

Holmgren has been very active and IMO quite impressive. By my count he's made 54 trades since he started in late 2006 while Darcy has made 27. The Flyers were in pretty crummy condition when he took the helm. The Forsberg-Timonen/Hartnell deals in particular have been crucial to their 5 straight post-seasons. He's a good, active GM, 95% of Sabre fans would swap Darcy for him (I hope).

Flyers Trades

Sabres Trades



Pretty unfair to compare Reiger and Homer considering the different situations that they've been in.

HOOats 07-22-2012 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beerz (Post 52822463)
I believe he meant the freed up cap space facilitated the Brygz signing.......and that is still their biggest obstacle.

I hear ya. Sure it's not the prettiest contract ever. However, his shifting 2 expensive centers into 2 young potentially equally capable centers and 2 good young forwards, while using that newly free cap space in an attempt to solidify their poor goaltending (which has been their biggest obstacle to contention for a decade plus) is a creative and ballsy maneuver. Bryz had some very good stretches last season and considering the keepers who have managed to win the cup in the last decade, he could certainly take a great (thanks to Homer) Flyers team there. The cap will most likely continue to rise. The Flyers had the flexibility to offer sheet Weber even with this supposedly disastrous contract on the books. If the cap is something like $85 million in 2019, even a useless goalie making 5.66 cap and 1.25 real salary won't hurt at all.

My main point wasn't to compare him to Darcy. They have clearly worked in disparate situations. However comparison does not require perfectly comparable conditions. Holmgren has been brave in moving stars for futures in down times, and conversely futures for stars when in contention. Darcy 2.0 has and will continue to operate in a similar manner I believe.

WhoIsJimBob 07-23-2012 10:50 AM

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2...rade-to-isles/

Visnovsky is trying to get his trade to the Isles voided by saying his NTC should still be in place.

:laugh:

Versteeg signs an extension with the Panthers.

Quote:

@DarrenDreger

$4.4 mil x 4 yrs for Versteeg.

struckbyaparkedcar 07-23-2012 11:40 AM

Wangz World...

And yeah, I was talking about Bryz. Couturier wasn't expected to fall to 7th or be that NHL ready. Those deals were to add some young pieces/depth and sign a big name goalie.

joshjull 07-23-2012 11:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HOOats (Post 52823077)
I hear ya. Sure it's not the prettiest contract ever. However, his shifting 2 expensive centers into 2 young potentially equally capable centers and 2 good young forwards, while using that newly free cap space in an attempt to solidify their poor goaltending (which has been their biggest obstacle to contention for a decade plus) is a creative and ballsy maneuver. Bryz had some very good stretches last season and considering the keepers who have managed to win the cup in the last decade, he could certainly take a great (thanks to Homer) Flyers team there. The cap will most likely continue to rise. The Flyers had the flexibility to offer sheet Weber even with this supposedly disastrous contract on the books. If the cap is something like $85 million in 2019, even a useless goalie making 5.66 cap and 1.25 real salary won't hurt at all.

My main point wasn't to compare him to Darcy. They have clearly worked in disparate situations. However comparison does not require perfectly comparable conditions. Holmgren has been brave in moving stars for futures in down times, and conversely futures for stars when in contention. Darcy 2.0 has and will continue to operate in a similar manner I believe.

Dumb would be how I describe trading away two young stars signed to great cap hits (Richards/Carter) for players who might become them. Richards/Carter were key members of their run to the Cup Finals and just helped the Kings win one. All to free up space to add a big name goalie he was told to get.

Also the context of why they were traded makes the idea of Homer being "brave" fairly silly. Snider had ripped into him in a meeting after losing in the 10-11 playoffs due to bad goaltending. http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/i...oalie-too.html

So Homer went out and traded for the "big name" goalie that he gave a massive contract to. Then on the same day he traded away Richards and Carter to free up cap space. He had little choice but to trade them since, of his big contracts at the time, they were the only ones not restricted by a NTC or NMC.

Homer did was he was told to do by his owner and there really isn't anything "brave" about that. Not to mention he has unlimited resources and can attempt to buy his way out of any mistakes. As you see he is attempting to do right now with the Weber offersheet to find a replacement for Pronger.


A "brave" GM, to use your term, would be one that goes big knowing that it better work or he is stuck with his mistake for years. A small market or mid market team's GM would be in that position. Not the Philly GM and the unlimited piles of cash they can throw at their team.

Jame 07-23-2012 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beerz (Post 52822463)
I believe he meant the freed up cap space facilitated the Brygz signing.......and that is still their biggest obstacle.

so is Ryan Miller the biggest obstacle in Buffalo's way?

Chris Pronger's contract is the only "obstacle" currently on the Flyers roster (in terms of money/cap)

Jame 07-23-2012 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshjull (Post 52843975)
Dumb would be how I describe trading away two young stars signed to great cap hits (Richards/Carter) for players who might become them. Richards/Carter were key members of their run to the Cup Finals and just helped the Kings win one. All to free up space to add a big name goalie he was told to get.

Also the context of why they were traded makes the idea of Homer being "brave" fairly silly. Snider had ripped into him in a meeting after losing in the 10-11 playoffs due to bad goaltending. http://www.philly.com/philly/blogs/i...oalie-too.html

So Homer went out and traded for the "big name" goalie that he gave a massive contract to. Then on the same day he traded away Richards and Carter to free up cap space. He had little choice but to trade them since, of his big contracts at the time, they were the only ones not restricted by a NTC or NMC.

Homer did was he was told to do by his owner and there really isn't anything "brave" about that. Not to mention he has unlimited resources and can attempt to buy his way out of any mistakes. As you see he is attempting to do right now with the Weber offersheet to find a replacement for Pronger.


A "brave" GM, to use your term, would be one that goes big knowing that it better work or he is stuck with his mistake for years. A small market or mid market team's GM would be in that position. Not the Philly GM and the unlimited piles of cash they can throw at their team.

this correlation/causation annoys me to no end... because it is flat out wrong.

tsujimoto74 07-23-2012 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jame (Post 52844233)
so is Ryan Miller the biggest obstacle in Buffalo's way?

Chris Pronger's contract is the only "obstacle" currently on the Flyers roster (in terms of money/cap)

Miller is far better than Bryz. The point is they got rid of 2 good players to make cap room for a big-name goalie, and they failed to actually upgrade that position.


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