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-   -   Salary Cap: Is 2013-14 the year the Sabres need to target as best chance for a Cup? (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1234687)

Prospector74 07-22-2012 12:15 PM

Is 2013-14 the year the Sabres need to target as best chance for a Cup?
 
We are looking good WRT expiring contracts for critical players for this year and for 2013-14 but after that season the following are UFA's:

Miller
Vanek
Pominville

Ott
McCormick

and RFA's after that season:

Foligno
Gerbe
McNabb

Anyone think we will have trouble resigning any of the bolded players for fair market value (in order to fit everything under the cap) or do we lose key pieces of the team after the 2013-14 season?

Still having horrible flashbacks to the Hasek, Peca, Briere, Drury, Satan days where we were unabe to keep key pieces from walking out the door and wondering (even with a great owner to bankroll us) if things haven't changed that much WRT where players want to go when they get a chance.

Edit: started thinking of this in relation to the Doan offer and what was the smart thing to do WRT contract length/value there. Could see it going a couple of ways and feeling really depends on can we retain our stars when they hit UFA or is 2013-14 best shot.

joshjull 07-22-2012 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prospector74 (Post 52814601)
We are looking good WRT expiring contracts for critical players for this year and for 2013-14 but after that season the following are UFA's:

Miller
Vanek
Pominville

Ott
McCormick

and RFA's after that season:

Foligno
Gerbe
McNabb

Anyone think we will have trouble resigning any of the bolded players for fair market value (in order to fit everything under the cap) or do we lose key pieces of the team after the 2013-14 season?

Still having horrible flashbacks to the Hasek, Peca, Briere, Drury, Satan days where we were unabe to keep key pieces from walking out the door and wondering (even with a great owner to bankroll us) if things haven't changed that much WRT where players want to go when they get a chance.

I don't see any issues re-signing them with Pegula as owner.

McTank 07-22-2012 12:37 PM

No we should have a large window but that'll be a good year

HockeyH3aven 07-22-2012 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joshjull (Post 52814745)
I don't see any issues re-signing them with Pegula as owner.

My only concern would be that they're all going to be 30+ by the time their contracts are up. It's a weird time for another contract. They're going to want a decent term, but giving guys who are 30 more than 5 year contracts can be risky.

start winnin 07-22-2012 12:44 PM

Pfft, I don't care about fair market value for Foligno do whatever it takes to get that kid signed. I bet he'll take a hometown discount though.

ZZamboni 07-22-2012 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kishire (Post 52815467)
Pfft, I don't care about fair market value for Foligno do whatever it takes to get that kid signed. I bet he'll take a hometown discount though.

I think the "hometown discount" card is a dying mindset. Very very few players really do that these days.

I could be wrong, but say the Wild offered Parise 13 years, 80 mil. Would he have taken it? What about Suter?

What do players consider the hometown? Where they were born? Where they were raised? Where they played college hockey? Where the majority of their family is?

I think it varies from player to player, but the "hometown discount" isn't as important anymore. Again, I could be wrong. It's just the way I see it these days. :dunno:

tsujimoto74 07-22-2012 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZZamboni (Post 52815759)
I think the "hometown discount" card is a dying mindset. Very very few players really do that these days.

I could be wrong, but say the Wild offered Parise 13 years, 80 mil. Would he have taken it? What about Suter?

What do players consider the hometown? Where they were born? Where they were raised? Where they played college hockey? Where the majority of their family is?

I think it varies from player to player, but the "hometown discount" isn't as important anymore. Again, I could be wrong. It's just the way I see it these days. :dunno:

Parise did take less than the Wild's initial offer to him actually. I think he negotiated with them to get less while giving Suter more so both wound up with the same contract. Also, wrt Foligno, it will only be his second contract, so it's reasonable to think we could sign him for a few years fairly cheap, and have him still be an RFA for the next round of negotiations.

Husko 07-22-2012 02:47 PM

I agree, that should be the year. Great blend of old core in their prime and youngsters on ELC contracts (see: JJ's thread from years ago I recently bumped)

SirRocko 07-22-2012 11:45 PM

That could be a very fun year indeed. Some combinations of...

Vanek-Hodgson-Pommers
Foligno-Ennis-Stafford
Girgenson-Grigorenko-Armia
Gerbe-Ott-Kaleta

That's a pretty scary team. And that's not even acknowledging the young defense that should be featuring Myers/Ehrhoff/Sekera/Pysyk/McNabb.

CaptPantalones 07-23-2012 08:26 AM

I dont see Miller being back, but after that, i dont see problems

Jame 07-23-2012 08:39 AM

it's more like 2016-2017

something like

Adam-Grigorenko-Armia
Foligno-Hodgson-Ennis
XXXX-Girgenson-Tropp
Kea-Sundher-XXXX

McNabb-Myers
Ehrhoff-Pysyk
McCabe-Leduc

Ullmark/Enroth/Knapp/Lieuwen

:dunno:

Husko 07-23-2012 08:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jame (Post 52838515)
it's more like 2016-2017

something like

Adam-Grigorenko-Armia
Foligno-Hodgson-Ennis
XXXX-Girgenson-Tropp
Kea-Sundher-XXXX

McNabb-Myers
Ehrhoff-Pysyk
McCabe-Leduc

Ullmark/Enroth/Knapp/Lieuwen

:dunno:

You don't think we resign any of Vanek/Pominville/Miller?

Zip15 07-23-2012 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaptPantalones (Post 52838287)
I dont see Miller being back, but after that, i dont see problems

Why? Do you see another goaltender in this system who'll be prepared for an NHL starter's role within two years? I don't. After several years of inconsistent play at each professional level, I don't think the organization is all that high on Enroth, at least as far as being an NHL starter. Add to that a woeful UFA crop of goaltenders in summer 2014--Lundqvist is not leaving NYC, and the best options after him are Kipper (will be 37 and far less consistent than Miller), Hiller (will probably want a raise to the point there wouldn't be much cost savings from Miller), and Halak (ditto). The only way I see Miller going is if someone offers a hot shot goaltending prospect on the cusp of NHL duty (plus other assets) in exchange for Miller. I don't think he'd ever ask out.

While Miller has grown more jaded to Buffalo over the years--particularly with the local media--I get the sense that the Pegulas very much like him and the feeling is mutual. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see him sign something like a three-year deal for similar money

Jame 07-23-2012 11:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zip15 (Post 52838997)
Why? Do you see another goaltender in this system who'll be prepared for an NHL starter's role within two years? I don't. After several years of inconsistent play at each professional level, I don't think the organization is all that high on Enroth, at least as far as being an NHL starter. Add to that a woeful UFA crop of goaltenders in summer 2014--Lundqvist is not leaving NYC, and the best options after him are Kipper (will be 37 and far less consistent than Miller), Hiller (will probably want a raise to the point there wouldn't be much cost savings from Miller), and Halak (ditto). The only way I see Miller going is if someone offers a hot shot goaltending prospect on the cusp of NHL duty (plus other assets) in exchange for Miller. I don't think he'd ever ask out.

While Miller has grown more jaded to Buffalo over the years--particularly with the local media--I get the sense that the Pegulas very much like him and the feeling is mutual. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see him sign something like a three-year deal for similar money

Ryan Miller will be 34 yrs old and have close to 600 games of wear on his body... I'm ok with re-signing him short term to Jose Theodore/Tomas Vokoun money and being clear that someone is going to get a large share games behind him to begin grooming his replacement... but im not sure his ego could handle that.

He should not be given another "franchise goalie" contract...

Also, there are a LOT of quality goaltenders available in 2013.

I'd give Al Montoya a nice 3 yr contract. He can split with Miller for a year, and then take over.

Greiss is another interesting target, along with

BackGroundMusic 07-23-2012 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jame (Post 52838515)
it's more like 2016-2017

something like

Adam-Grigorenko-Armia
Foligno-Hodgson-Ennis
XXXX-Girgenson-Tropp
Kea-Sundher-XXXX

McNabb-Myers
Ehrhoff-Pysyk
McCabe-Leduc

Ullmark/Enroth/Knapp/Lieuwen

:dunno:

That's actually a pretty sexy lineup, projecting out, obviously. I just want to put Dixon Ward on the 3rd line....

JOHNBOY 07-23-2012 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jame (Post 52838515)
it's more like 2016-2017

something like

Adam-Grigorenko-Armia
Foligno-Hodgson-Ennis
XXXX-Girgenson-Tropp
Kea-Sundher-XXXX

McNabb-Myers
Ehrhoff-Pysyk
McCabe-Leduc

Ullmark/Enroth/Knapp/Lieuwen

:dunno:

I like the looks of that..:nod::yo:

haseoke39 07-23-2012 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jame (Post 52838515)
it's more like 2016-2017

something like

Adam-Grigorenko-Armia
Foligno-Hodgson-Ennis
XXXX-Girgenson-Tropp
Kea-Sundher-XXXX

McNabb-Myers
Ehrhoff-Pysyk
McCabe-Leduc

Ullmark/Enroth/Knapp/Lieuwen

:dunno:


Between the guys who get traded, don't make the NHL, turn out to be decent third liners and nothing more, can't play under pressure or don't work hard enough to be gamebreakers, I say the over/under on how much of that lineup actually exists in 5 years is around 20%.

CaptPantalones 07-23-2012 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zip15 (Post 52838997)
Why? Do you see another goaltender in this system who'll be prepared for an NHL starter's role within two years? I don't. After several years of inconsistent play at each professional level, I don't think the organization is all that high on Enroth, at least as far as being an NHL starter. Add to that a woeful UFA crop of goaltenders in summer 2014--Lundqvist is not leaving NYC, and the best options after him are Kipper (will be 37 and far less consistent than Miller), Hiller (will probably want a raise to the point there wouldn't be much cost savings from Miller), and Halak (ditto). The only way I see Miller going is if someone offers a hot shot goaltending prospect on the cusp of NHL duty (plus other assets) in exchange for Miller. I don't think he'd ever ask out.

While Miller has grown more jaded to Buffalo over the years--particularly with the local media--I get the sense that the Pegulas very much like him and the feeling is mutual. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to see him sign something like a three-year deal for similar money

Just my opinion, but I think Enroth will be ready enough to be a starter in 2 yrs with a vet backing up until Linus Ullmark is ready in 3-4 yrs

kirby11 07-23-2012 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jame (Post 52838515)
it's more like 2016-2017

something like

Adam-Grigorenko-Armia
Foligno-Hodgson-Ennis
XXXX-Girgenson-Tropp
Kea-Sundher-XXXX

McNabb-Myers
Ehrhoff-Pysyk
McCabe-Leduc

Ullmark/Enroth/Knapp/Lieuwen

:dunno:

put in cattenacci for 3rd/4th line duty and then idk who goes in one of the other unknown slots

Mike203 07-23-2012 08:05 PM

Went to capgeek and made out what I think will be lineup in 13-14. I've got Armia, Grigorenko, Girgensons & Pysyk making the team. Resigning UFA Regehr for $4M and Sulzer $0.950M. Resigning RFA's Hodgson, Ennis, Kaleta, Weber & Enroth. I put Girgensons as 4th line center but would like him to get additional minutes. If we need more cap money, trade Leino or put him in Rochester. Any thoughts?


FORWARDS
Thomas Vanek ($7.143m) / Cody Hodgson ($2.225m) / Joel Armia ($1.275m)
Marcus Foligno ($0.900m) / Tyler Ennis ($2.225m) / Drew Stafford ($4.000m)
Steve Ott ($2.950m) / Mikhail Grigorenko ($1.775m) / Jason Pominville ($5.300m)
Nathan Gerbe ($1.450m) / Zemgus Girgensons ($1.625m) / Patrick Kaleta ($1.200m)
Cody McCormick ($1.200m) / Ville Leino ($4.500m) / John Scott ($0.700m)
DEFENSEMEN
Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m) / Tyler Myers ($5.500m)
Robyn Regehr ($4.000m) / Andrej Sekera ($2.750m)
Brayden McNabb ($0.900m) / Mark Pysyk ($0.870m)
Alexander Sulzer ($0.950m) / Mike Weber ($1.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Ryan Miller ($6.250m)
Jhonas Enroth ($0.675m)
Jhonas Enroth ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,362,857; BONUSES: $2,220,000
CAP SPACE (26-man roster): $3,837,143

I made 1 mistake... I have Enroth in twice... subtract $0.675 from salary cap.

Tra La La 07-23-2012 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike203 (Post 52876041)
Went to capgeek and made out what I think will be lineup in 13-14. I've got Armia, Grigorenko, Girgensons & Pysyk making the team. Resigning UFA Regehr for $4M and Sulzer $0.950M. Resigning RFA's Hodgson, Ennis, Kaleta, Weber & Enroth. I put Girgensons as 4th line center but would like him to get additional minutes. If we need more cap money, trade Leino or put him in Rochester. Any thoughts?


FORWARDS
Thomas Vanek ($7.143m) / Cody Hodgson ($2.225m) / Joel Armia ($1.275m)
Marcus Foligno ($0.900m) / Tyler Ennis ($2.225m) / Drew Stafford ($4.000m)
Steve Ott ($2.950m) / Mikhail Grigorenko ($1.775m) / Jason Pominville ($5.300m)
Nathan Gerbe ($1.450m) / Zemgus Girgensons ($1.625m) / Patrick Kaleta ($1.200m)
Cody McCormick ($1.200m) / Ville Leino ($4.500m) / John Scott ($0.700m)
DEFENSEMEN
Christian Ehrhoff ($4.000m) / Tyler Myers ($5.500m)
Robyn Regehr ($4.000m) / Andrej Sekera ($2.750m)
Brayden McNabb ($0.900m) / Mark Pysyk ($0.870m)
Alexander Sulzer ($0.950m) / Mike Weber ($1.000m)
GOALTENDERS
Ryan Miller ($6.250m)
Jhonas Enroth ($0.675m)
Jhonas Enroth ($1.000m)
------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $70,200,000; CAP PAYROLL: $66,362,857; BONUSES: $2,220,000
CAP SPACE (26-man roster): $3,837,143

Just an enormous amount of talent and skill in that lineup.:nod:

JPurp26 07-23-2012 08:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirby11 (Post 52875679)
put in cattenacci for 3rd/4th line duty and then idk who goes in one of the other unknown slots

Agreed although i dont think adam will ever be a first liner.

I imagine we can start to be a playoff challenger in 13 14 but like Jame says, it would take more time to be a cup contender.

My lineup 2016-2017
Grigorenko-Hodgson-pominville
Foligno-ennis-Armia
Ott-girgensons-Erne
Catenacci-kea-tropp

Mcnabb-Myers
McCabe-Ehrhoff
Defensive FA-Pysyk
GL, Mackenzie

Ullmark
Veteran backup

start winnin 07-23-2012 09:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghost Dog (Post 52876997)
Just an enormous amount of talent and skill in that lineup.:nod:

A lot of young unproven talent. It looks good if you are imagining them peaking out but if you think of them as 40 pt rookies, which is pretty high for rookies it's not very good.

Dubi Doo 07-23-2012 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jame (Post 52838515)
it's more like 2016-2017

something like

Adam-Grigorenko-Armia
Foligno-Hodgson-Ennis
XXXX-Girgenson-Tropp
Kea-Sundher-XXXX

McNabb-Myers
Ehrhoff-Pysyk
McCabe-Leduc

Ullmark/Enroth/Knapp/Lieuwen

:dunno:

Pom and vanek are still very good players. The core is changed. This is a new team. I'm fine with both of these players being with our team in the future. I can see this team being very good next year.

tsujimoto74 07-23-2012 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kishire (Post 52881197)
A lot of young unproven talent. It looks good if you are imagining them peaking out but if you think of them as 40 pt rookies, which is pretty high for rookies it's not very good.

If we have 3 40-point rookies at the same time, you won't find me complaining about it.


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