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-   -   Speculation: Bobby Ryan (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1235131)

Flyers Time 07-23-2012 10:29 AM

Bobby Ryan
 
If the Predators don't match and accept the 4 1st round picks. Could the Flyers turn around and trade Jake Voracek, Andrej Meszaros, Nick Cousins for Bobby Ryan? Would it work cap wise, also would the Ducks accept it?

Jack de la Hoya 07-23-2012 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyers Time (Post 52841325)
If the Predators don't match and accept the 4 1st round picks. Could the Flyers turn around and trade Jake Voracek, Andrej Meszaros, Nick Cousins for Bobby Ryan? Would it work cap wise, also would the Ducks accept it?

It would work cap wise, but I doubt the Ducks take that. They were pretty insistent on either Schenn or Couturier being the centerpiece--most Ducks fans were unenthusiastic about Voracek, Mezsaros, and our 2012 1st ahead of the draft, so I don't see them warming to Cousins instead.

Flyers Time 07-23-2012 10:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeh82 (Post 52841357)
It would work cap wise, but I doubt the Ducks take that. They were pretty insistent on either Schenn or Couturier being the centerpiece--most Ducks fans were unenthusiastic about Voracek, Mezsaros, and our 2012 1st ahead of the draft, so I don't see them warming to Cousins instead.

I think you could slot Voracek right into Bobby Ryan's spot, plus add a very good defender coming off a injury.

Jack de la Hoya 07-23-2012 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyers Time (Post 52841395)
I think you could slot Voracek right into Bobby Ryan's spot, plus add a very good defender coming off a injury.

I don't disagree at all--but you asked whether the Ducks would take it, and, I think if they were willing to accept that return, Ryan would already by a Flyer.

It seems to start with Schenn or Couturier +.

EDIT: Also, the Ducks have signed several defenseman since the initial talks, so I'm sure Meszaros holds a bit less value to them now.

Prongo 07-23-2012 10:39 AM

Jeh, I and a few other fans went at it for awhile with the Ducks fan about this. There is no way the ducks fans approve of the deal, but they aren't the GM of the team. With that being said, there was multiple reports that Murray was looking for Schenn or Couts for Ryan, plus more.

CS 07-23-2012 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeh82 (Post 52841357)
It would work cap wise, but I doubt the Ducks take that. They were pretty insistent on either Schenn or Couturier being the centerpiece--most Ducks fans were unenthusiastic about Voracek, Mezsaros, and our 2012 1st ahead of the draft, so I don't see them warming to Cousins instead.

Most Ducks fans are just being stupid. That's a pretty awesome package, particularly for someone who doesn't want to be there.

Then again, I can't tell them what to like.

I can promise you this. If Couturier and Schenn(s) weren't traded for Weber, then they're not going to Anaheim for Ryan. People think that just because we have shiny assets, they deserve those assets for whatever player that might be traded here. It's a problematic endeavor. If you want to be stubborn and overreach your value, you get burned in the end. Look at where Nashville stands.

chimrichalds18 07-23-2012 11:30 AM

Flyers better get Weber because if they don't, Ryan will be a Flyer and many around here will be pissed with how much we give up for him.

Beef Invictus 07-23-2012 11:32 AM

The Ryan infatuation continues.

Spongolium* 07-23-2012 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flyers Time (Post 52841395)
I think you could slot Voracek right into Bobby Ryan's spot, plus add a very good defender coming off a injury.

So why make the trade?

Seriously, the infatuation with Ryan is sickening.

Prongo 07-23-2012 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spongolium (Post 52843425)
So why make the trade?

Seriously, the infatuation with Ryan is sickening.

Goal scorer vs play maker. This is the main reason people are infatuated with Bobby Ryan, to play him with Giroux.

Beef Invictus 07-23-2012 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 (Post 52843687)
Goal scorer vs play maker. This is the main reason people are infatuated with Bobby Ryan, to play him with Giroux.

I think a LOT of it comes from the local connection. Why not try to sign Semin for a year or two? That doesn't cost us roster players.

Prongo 07-23-2012 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Invictus (Post 52843773)
I think a LOT of it comes from the local connection. Why not try to sign Semin for a year or two? That doesn't cost us roster players.

Well some of us really don't like Semin as a player or a character on this team. Some of the bias against him might be unjustified, but there is always rumors surrounding him as a player and a person. Those question marks do not surround Bobby Ryan.

Beef Invictus 07-23-2012 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flyersfan9180 (Post 52843827)
Well some of us really don't like Semin as a player or a character on this team. Some of the bias against him might be unjustified, but there is always rumors surrounding him as a player and a person. Those question marks do not surround Bobby Ryan.

Does that really justify overpaying for him?

sobrien 07-23-2012 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Invictus (Post 52844991)
Does that really justify overpaying for him?

Yup!

Beef Invictus 07-23-2012 12:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sobrien (Post 52845049)
Yup!

If he were from Kansas instead of South Jersey, would you feel the same way?

ORYX 07-23-2012 12:41 PM

I don't think the loss of Mesz, Voracek, and Cousins or a pick is justified with Ryan.

Yes he is a great player, but I feel by seasons end Voracek may be putting up just as many points, or close enough that Mesz and the extra piece makes it a loss for us.

I'd much rather land Weber, and do whatever it is possible to keep Voracek. I see alot of potential in him, and unless landing Weber was hinged on him going to Nashville, I want to keep and sign him.

He could garner a Carter type return in a few short years IMO.

sobrien 07-23-2012 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Invictus (Post 52845133)
If he were from Kansas instead of South Jersey, would you feel the same way?

I don't trust people from Kansas. Ask someone else.

GoneFullHextall 07-23-2012 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fish Invictus (Post 52843773)
I think a LOT of it comes from the local connection. Why not try to sign Semin for a year or two? That doesn't cost us roster players.

i would rather sign Doan. Hes reportedly had 2 vists with the Flyers already. Sounds like hes genuine about having interest. I am not sure how much of that hinges on Weber or not tho.
If they cant get Doan, I would offer Semin a 1 year deal.

orange is better 07-23-2012 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sobrien (Post 52845739)
I don't trust people from Kansas. Ask someone else.

this seriously made me LOL.

turkinaa 07-23-2012 01:56 PM

Maybe the Nash trade will help the Flyers get Ryan.

FlyersFanz 07-23-2012 01:59 PM

Bobby Ryan....Still sounds like a Nascar driver name to me...lol

rban* 07-23-2012 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORYX (Post 52845729)
I don't think the loss of Mesz, Voracek, and Cousins or a pick is justified with Ryan.

Yes he is a great player, but I feel by seasons end Voracek may be putting up just as many points, or close enough that Mesz and the extra piece makes it a loss for us.

I'd much rather land Weber, and do whatever it is possible to keep Voracek. I see alot of potential in him, and unless landing Weber was hinged on him going to Nashville, I want to keep and sign him.

He could garner a Carter type return in a few short years IMO.

Well a trade like that is justifibale to some degree if we land Weber. Look at it this way, with Weber here we have probably too many Dmen so losing Mesz may happen anyway, Ryan or no Ryan. (yes even comsidering that Timo will probably leave next summer).

And trading Voracek for Ryan means trading one good forward for anotehr, so we lose no depth.Capwise Ryan costs ..what, 5 mil?.. Vorecek will demand at least 4, so not a huge difference.

The only xtra portion is that pick or Cousins.

SO landing Weber plus making that trade means effectively:

We lose Meszaros and replace him with Weber
We lose Voracek and replace him with Ryan.

We lose no defensive or offensive depth, We replace good dman and a good forward with a better dman and better forward.

GUYS, we'd be fools not to go for that. Anaheim tho, according to some, may not agree.

rban* 07-23-2012 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoneFullHolmgren (Post 52846431)
i would rather sign Doan. Hes reportedly had 2 vists with the Flyers already. Sounds like hes genuine about having interest. I am not sure how much of that hinges on Weber or not tho.
If they cant get Doan, I would offer Semin a 1 year deal.

WHAT worries me about Doan is his age compared to Ryan. How long a term would Doan ask for?

We've got an old crippled Prongs, a very declined old Timonen, and a Briere that's getting quite long in the tooth as well.

SHould we add another geriatric that may decline soon as well?

ORYX 07-23-2012 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rban (Post 52853767)
Well a trade like that is justifibale to some degree if we land Weber. Look at it this way, with Weber here we have probably too many Dmen so losing Mesz may happen anyway, Ryan or no Ryan. (yes even comsidering that Timo will probably leave next summer).

And trading Voracek for Ryan means trading one good forward for anotehr, so we lose no depth.Capwise Ryan costs ..what, 5 mil?.. Vorecek will demand at least 4, so not a huge difference.

The only xtra portion is that pick or Cousins.

SO landing Weber plus making that trade means effectively:

We lose Meszaros and replace him with Weber
We lose Voracek and replace him with Ryan.

We lose no defensive or offensive depth, We replace good dman and a good forward with a better dman and better forward.

GUYS, we'd be fools not to go for that. Anaheim tho, according to some, may not agree.

So because we add players, means we can get less value back for those that become expendable?

Just because Mesz becomes expendable doesnt make him a trade throw in.

IMO, Voracek, Mesz and Cousins is too much for Ryan, especially when you factor is what a better Nash got. A bunch of near scrubs. Nash pulled in a 2 3rd liners, a #4 d-man and a pick.

Voracek is at current better then all players involved in that trade, Mesz is comparable to all, and Cousins has the potential to be better.

You don't just toss guys away because you got others to fill the holes. Essentially we are talking:

Voracek
Mesz
Cousins
2013 1st
2014 1st
2015 1st
2016 1st

for:

Weber and Ryan.

That is to much.

I'm all for getting both, but I believe that package for Ryan is to much for a moderate increase.

This Flyers team is currently built, and if they acquire Weber even more so, to not only compete this season, but also the next 10 years. Why throw away assets to make this years team moderately stronger, when in as early as one year, Voracek is posting comparable numbers, Mesz would add depth and resign for what will likely be less, and Cousins is ready to own face? He plays like RInaldo but with skill, the kid will be a phenomenal flyer.

Doesnt make sense to me, not when the window of opportunity (given Weber lands here) is much greater then a 1-2 year gap, in which the aquisition of Ryan would be more beneficial, as the over the top piece.

FLYERSFAN18 07-23-2012 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ORYX (Post 52860791)
So because we add players, means we can get less value back for those that become expendable?

Just because Mesz becomes expendable doesnt make him a trade throw in.

IMO, Voracek, Mesz and Cousins is too much for Ryan, especially when you factor is what a better Nash got. A bunch of near scrubs. Nash pulled in a 2 3rd liners, a #4 d-man and a pick.

Voracek is at current better then all players involved in that trade, Mesz is comparable to all, and Cousins has the potential to be better.

You don't just toss guys away because you got others to fill the holes. Essentially we are talking:

Voracek
Mesz
Cousins
2013 1st
2014 1st
2015 1st
2016 1st

for:

Weber and Ryan.

That is to much.

I'm all for getting both, but I believe that package for Ryan is to much for a moderate increase.

This Flyers team is currently built, and if they acquire Weber even more so, to not only compete this season, but also the next 10 years. Why throw away assets to make this years team moderately stronger, when in as early as one year, Voracek is posting comparable numbers, Mesz would add depth and resign for what will likely be less, and Cousins is ready to own face? He plays like RInaldo but with skill, the kid will be a phenomenal flyer.

Doesnt make sense to me, not when the window of opportunity (given Weber lands here) is much greater then a 1-2 year gap, in which the aquisition of Ryan would be more beneficial, as the over the top piece.

Would you do that if we replaced Voracek with Read. I think I would

A core of
Giroux, Ryan, Couts, Schenn, Simmonds, Voracek and Weber, Coburn, Schenn looks pretty damn awesome


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