HFBoards

HFBoards (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/index.php)
-   Finland (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/forumdisplay.php?f=122)
-   -   Question regarding the make-up of Finnish Hockey (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1236837)

paul-laus 07-25-2012 08:28 PM

Question regarding the make-up of Finnish Hockey
 
I have a question that I'm hoping somebody can answer who is familiar with Finnish hockey.

I understand that all teams in the SM-Ligga have feeder teams in terms of their junior clubs. Would I be correct in assuming that the SM-Ligga teams have both an under-20 team that plays for a junior title and also feeds the parent club as well as an under-18 team that plays for that age groups title and feeds the under 20-team?Is this the same system in the 2nd division Mestis? And do other hockey nations like Sweden, Czech, and Slovakia use a similar system? Thanks for any help.

TheRocket87 07-26-2012 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul-laus (Post 52964319)
I have a question that I'm hoping somebody can answer who is familiar with Finnish hockey.

I understand that all teams in the SM-Ligga have feeder teams in terms of their junior clubs. Would I be correct in assuming that the SM-Ligga teams have both an under-20 team that plays for a junior title and also feeds the parent club as well as an under-18 team that plays for that age groups title and feeds the under 20-team?Is this the same system in the 2nd division Mestis? And do other hockey nations like Sweden, Czech, and Slovakia use a similar system? Thanks for any help.

Yes, that is generally the system across Europe. Can't speak for all countries of course.

Most of the Mestis teams also have junior teams, but there are exceptions. For example JYP-Akatemia is just a feeder team for JYP to help juniors make the jump to play against men.

In Finland, all SM-liiga teams' U20 teams have an automatic spot in the U20 SM-liiga, but in the U18 nad U16 it's up for grabs for everyone.

paul-laus 07-27-2012 02:35 AM

Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question. So teams in the SM-Ligga have an under-20 team feeding the big club. They also have an under-18 team that feeds the under-20 and at times the SM-Ligga team in rare circumstances. They also have an under-16 team that acts as the starting point of the feeder system? And most Mestis teams have a similar system? The SM-Ligga is closed when it comes to promotion/relegation with the Mestis correct? As far as the Russian system goes, I haven't heard of any particular under-16 or under-18 team that feeds the MHL which goes on to feed the VHL and KHL but I'm unknowledgeable when it comes to overseas hockey.

stv11 07-27-2012 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul-laus (Post 53018269)
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my question. So teams in the SM-Ligga have an under-20 team feeding the big club. They also have an under-18 team that feeds the under-20 and at times the SM-Ligga team in rare circumstances. They also have an under-16 team that acts as the starting point of the feeder system? And most Mestis teams have a similar system?

This is correct for pretty much any sport organisation in Europe. All teams have a feeding team which plays under the same name in the younger age category. Even amateur clubs from small towns have a full development program. Of course, a talented kid from such a program would quickly move to the biggest club from his home area.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul-laus (Post 53018269)
The SM-Ligga is closed when it comes to promotion/relegation with the Mestis correct?

Actually, the last place team in the SM-Liiga plays a best of seven serie against the Mestis champion and the winner of that serie plays in the SM-Liiga the following season. As far as I know, the SM-Liiga team always wins that serie pretty easily, but our Finnish posters can probably tell us more about this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul-laus (Post 53018269)
As far as the Russian system goes, I haven't heard of any particular under-16 or under-18 team that feeds the MHL which goes on to feed the VHL and KHL but I'm unknowledgeable when it comes to overseas hockey.

The MHL is pretty much a unique case in Europe. As far as I know, MHL teams feed KHL team, but they don't play under the same name or in the same place. This is part of what the KHL is trying to create, which runs against the way sport clubs are tradionally organized in Europe.

LOFIN 07-27-2012 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stv11 (Post 53019253)


Actually, the last place team in the SM-Liiga plays a best of seven serie against the Mestis champion and the winner of that serie plays in the SM-Liiga the following season. As far as I know, the SM-Liiga team always win that serie pretty easily, but our Finnish posters can probably tell you more about this.


Yes there is a promotion/relegation series in place, however it's mostly cosmetic because the gap between SM-Liiga and Mestis teams has grown so big in the 2000-2008 timespan, when SM-Liiga was closed to prevent finacial difficulties for the smaller teams. One can hope that in the future the movement between the leagues will be restored.

QnebO 07-28-2012 03:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stv11 (Post 53019253)
Actually, the last place team in the SM-Liiga plays a best of seven serie against the Mestis champion and the winner of that serie plays in the SM-Liiga the following season. As far as I know, the SM-Liiga team always wins that serie pretty easily

Well it has gone to game 7 atleast in 2009, probably some other time too, but basicly every time the big league team wins. The league also has been closed earlier, but its now again open so some small budget teams cant just surf there not even trying to be good saving money.

paul-laus 02-08-2013 10:52 PM

I'm sorry for coming off as redundant, but just to confirm all European hockey clubs from Biel in Switzerland to Ilves in Finland have a developmental system that goes as far back as an under 16 team? I just haven't been able to find much information on this level and age group in European hockey. Even on NHL.COM and hockey db etc. stats seem to rarely exist beyond the under 18 level for guys like Dano or Koys etc.

ES 02-09-2013 03:06 AM

There are not official championships available below U16 level, so that's why there won't be seen stats.

Korkki 02-09-2013 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ES (Post 59336807)
There are not official championships available below U16 level, so that's why there won't be seen stats.

Actually there are now also championships for D1 and D2 age groups. They are played in tournament type games on some weekends during the season.

D1 junior championships

D2 junior championships

Raimo Sillanpää 02-16-2013 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul-laus (Post 59330937)
I'm sorry for coming off as redundant, but just to confirm all European hockey clubs from Biel in Switzerland to Ilves in Finland have a developmental system that goes as far back as an under 16 team?

I'd say Finnish teams have systems going all the way down to 4-5 year olds.
As soon as little boys want to start skating there's a team for them. Sure it's fooling around - but they're in the same team and system that unless they move they'd be in all the way to SM-Liiga

LOFIN 02-16-2013 05:55 PM

I think most SM-Liiga and Mestis teams start scouting kids from smaller local junior teams when they are about 10-12 years old. Usually kids get invited to join the bigger club if they are good enough, it's not like all of them have played in the same team forever.

paul-laus 02-17-2013 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOFIN (Post 59842063)
I think most SM-Liiga and Mestis teams start scouting kids from smaller local junior teams when they are about 10-12 years old. Usually kids get invited to join the bigger club if they are good enough, it's not like all of them have played in the same team forever.

Fair enough. But Kookoo or Pelicans don't have a team associated with their organization going that far back in age group. I was just asking if there was 16 yr. old age group hockey that is the starting point of a team's feeder system. Pulkkinen, Rajala, Lekhonnen, etc. worked there way through their organizations system right? under 16- under 18- junior squad- to Mestis and SM-Ligga right?

Jussi 02-18-2013 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul-laus (Post 59930255)
Fair enough. But Kookoo or Pelicans don't have a team associated with their organization going that far back in age group. I was just asking if there was 16 yr. old age group hockey that is the starting point of a team's feeder system. Pulkkinen, Rajala, Lekhonnen, etc. worked there way through their organizations system right? under 16- under 18- junior squad- to Mestis and SM-Ligga right?

Well the Helsinki area juniors are oftern brought up under numerous local junior teams that don't necessarily have teams on senior levels. E.g. Filppulas were technically developed in the EVU (Etelä-Vantaan Urheilijat) juniors.

Korkki 02-19-2013 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul-laus (Post 59930255)
Fair enough. But Kookoo or Pelicans don't have a team associated with their organization going that far back in age group. I was just asking if there was 16 yr. old age group hockey that is the starting point of a team's feeder system.

All the teams have their junior teams in a bit different organization. For example HC Ässät Oy has the senior and A-junior team and Ässät ry has the younger juniors than that. This is because of the Financial things. Being more complex the Ässät ry owns the HC Ässät company.

In Lahti the ry organization is named Kiekko-Reipas.

Someone who can tell this better in english should simplify the things up...

Tony Piscotta 02-20-2013 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul-laus (Post 59930255)
Kookoo or Pelicans don't have a team associated with their organization going that far back in age group. I was just asking if there was 16 yr. old age group hockey that is the starting point of a team's feeder system. Pulkkinen, Rajala, Lekhonnen, etc. worked there way through their organizations system right? under 16- under 18- junior squad- to Mestis and SM-Ligga right?

As someone mentioned above, Pelicans' youth teams go by the name of Kiekko Reippas at the younger levels but it is basically the same organization. KooKoo's organization, based in Kouvola, goes down to the early youth levels as well - though stats may not be available for those ages. Also, in previous seasons the Finnish hockey website (www.finhockey.fi) only listed C Junior (U16) stats for the SM-Liiga division (top division). Kouvola's team may have been demoted to either the second or third division and thus those stats would not have been available.

At the lower levels the season is basically three parts - with the first part of the year a qualifier to reach a given level. The second portion of the season is basically the regular season based on how you played in the first segment. And then playoffs follow (if I remember correctly there are also second tier playoffs for those teams that didn't make the actual playoffs). But it's been a couple of years so that may have changed.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:49 AM.

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com, A property of CraveOnline, a division of AtomicOnline LLC ©2009 CraveOnline Media, LLC. All Rights Reserved.