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-   -   Speculation: Rebuild Flames already (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1238403)

tomorrowjm 07-28-2012 08:10 PM

Rebuild Flames already
 
It goes without saying, deal bouwmeester now. Get the best deal you can for him, a couple picks, a prospect and a pick, the important thing is to clear his cap space. He is a minute muncher but he provides little offence and is not that good defensively either. Now it is time to trade Iggy and Kipper. I know this means a rebuild that the flames clearly don't want, but here are the reasons:
1. The flames are not going to win anything with these two still here, they're simply not good enough around them.
2. Their asset value is dropping every year, get something good now, before it is too late If either has a really poor start to this season, or gets injured, their asset value becomes close to nil.
3. If Iginla truly does want to stay and finish his career in Calgary, then I question his true desire to win, and if winning is not that important do we really want him wearing the "C"? He was consistently the most invisible player on the Flames on most nights last season, especially down the stretch when they really needed their leader to lead.
4. Sven Bartchi is ready to take the mantle of "star player"
5. Start the rebuild now, or wait for another 2-3 years and begin it then. Which would you choose?

TheHudlinator 07-28-2012 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomorrowjm (Post 53073637)
It goes without saying, deal bouwmeester now. Get the best deal you can for him, a couple picks, a prospect and a pick, the important thing is to clear his cap space. He is a minute muncher but he provides little offence and is not that good defensively either. Now it is time to trade Iggy and Kipper. I know this means a rebuild that the flames clearly don't want, but here are the reasons:
1. The flames are not going to win anything with these two still here, they're simply not good enough around them.
2. Their asset value is dropping every year, get something good now, before it is too late If either has a really poor start to this season, or gets injured, their asset value becomes close to nil.
3. If Iginla truly does want to stay and finish his career in Calgary, then I question his true desire to win, and if winning is not that important do we really want him wearing the "C"? He was consistently the most invisible player on the Flames on most nights last season, especially down the stretch when they really needed their leader to lead.
4. Sven Bartchi is ready to take the mantle of "star player"
5. Start the rebuild now, or wait for another 2-3 years and begin it then. Which would you choose?

:laugh: Even the biggest Sven fans can't think this

Over the last 19 games he had 19 points man I wish he would show up more often :laugh: leave troll

tyflames 07-28-2012 09:12 PM

Do we really need another one of these threads? The organization has made it obvious there will be no rebuild! Watch the season play out

InfinityIggy 07-28-2012 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomorrowjm (Post 53073637)
It goes without saying, deal bouwmeester now. Get the best deal you can for him, a couple picks, a prospect and a pick, the important thing is to clear his cap space. He is a minute muncher but he provides little offence and is not that good defensively either. Now it is time to trade Iggy and Kipper. I know this means a rebuild that the flames clearly don't want, but here are the reasons:
1. The flames are not going to win anything with these two still here, they're simply not good enough around them.
2. Their asset value is dropping every year, get something good now, before it is too late If either has a really poor start to this season, or gets injured, their asset value becomes close to nil.
3. If Iginla truly does want to stay and finish his career in Calgary, then I question his true desire to win, and if winning is not that important do we really want him wearing the "C"? He was consistently the most invisible player on the Flames on most nights last season, especially down the stretch when they really needed their leader to lead.
4. Sven Bartchi is ready to take the mantle of "star player"
5. Start the rebuild now, or wait for another 2-3 years and begin it then. Which would you choose?

Icy tale comrade.

Gary83* 07-28-2012 10:07 PM

Only on hf do I need read this junk. Go back to the main board little troll.

Devilspuppet666 07-28-2012 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomorrowjm (Post 53073637)
It goes without saying, deal bouwmeester now. Get the best deal you can for him, a couple picks, a prospect and a pick, the important thing is to clear his cap space. He is a minute muncher but he provides little offence and is not that good defensively either. Now it is time to trade Iggy and Kipper. I know this means a rebuild that the flames clearly don't want, but here are the reasons:
1. The flames are not going to win anything with these two still here, they're simply not good enough around them.
2. Their asset value is dropping every year, get something good now, before it is too late If either has a really poor start to this season, or gets injured, their asset value becomes close to nil.
3. If Iginla truly does want to stay and finish his career in Calgary, then I question his true desire to win, and if winning is not that important do we really want him wearing the "C"? He was consistently the most invisible player on the Flames on most nights last season, especially down the stretch when they really needed their leader to lead.
4. Sven Bartchi is ready to take the mantle of "star player"
5. Start the rebuild now, or wait for another 2-3 years and begin it then. Which would you choose?

its called dedication

BOLD MacT Trade 07-28-2012 10:36 PM

Rebuilding may seem like a good option, but trust me watching it take place is very painful. Give the flames another year or two before considering a rebuild.

InfinityIggy 07-28-2012 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NewOilersDynasty2012 (Post 53077203)
Rebuilding may seem like a good option, but trust me watching it take place is very painful. Give the flames another year or two before considering a rebuild.

Hopefully the Oilers are more competitive this year. I miss the rivalry.

BOLD MacT Trade 07-28-2012 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfinityIggy (Post 53077781)
Hopefully the Oilers are more competitive this year. I miss the rivalry.

Hopefully, I think the Northwest division as a whole will be more competitive this year.

MarkGio 07-28-2012 11:09 PM

I really wish HFBoards wouldn't allow rookie users to create threads.

WhereIsIt 07-28-2012 11:14 PM

The most important thing is to clear his cap space? This is where any reasonable person stops reading. Why the desperate need to clear Bouw for cap space NOW... what are we going to use it on? I don't think you thought that out very well. Cap space in itself is completely useless.

That being said if you can deal Bouwmeester for the right package it could be beneficial. Just don't trade him for the sake of cap space! That's just idiotic.

Other laughable parts of your proposal: Iginla and Kipper becoming "nil" as mid-season trade bait, Iginla being "consistently the most invisible player on the team most nights", a 19 year-old with 5 games under his belt being ready as a star player.

Glad you're not the GM. We'd have traded everyone for whatever draft picks we could assemble and be ready for playoff action in 2019, if that.

bWo 07-29-2012 12:00 AM

How about Iginla to the caps for wilson, johannson, and a conditional 1st ( the condition being that wash makes the finals and if not they get a 2nd).

tfong 07-29-2012 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bWo (Post 53079085)
How about Iginla to the caps for wilson, johannson, and a conditional 1st ( the condition being that wash makes the finals and if not they get a 2nd).

Why would the Caps do this?

bWo 07-29-2012 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tfong (Post 53079183)
Why would the Caps do this?

Iginla would bring veteran leadership to the team and he knows what it takes to get to the finals. also the RW is weak.

Devilspuppet666 07-29-2012 01:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bWo (Post 53079085)
How about Iginla to the caps for wilson, johannson, and a conditional 1st ( the condition being that wash makes the finals and if not they get a 2nd).

i know this sounds bad but i would rather keep iggy because he should retire as a flame if thats what he wishes, and i really wouldnt mind (if had to) going threw an extended rebuild after we lost him but i think with the prospects we have (Baertschi, Seiloff, Gaudreau, Ramage, Ferland, Arnold, Jankowski, Brossiot, and Gillies are my favourite prospects HM: Granlund) it wouldnt be that long of a rebuild

Northern Heat 07-29-2012 01:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MarkGio (Post 53078077)
I really wish HFBoards wouldn't allow rookie users to create threads.

Especially a thread that's been created 50-60 times in the last couple years.

Volica 07-29-2012 01:51 AM

I love how everyone thinks in the new NHL if a team doesn't make the playoffs, rebuild. Any issues, rebuild. The arena runs out of beer, rebuild.

Detroit, ask them about their rebuild. oh wait.

Stewie Griffin 07-29-2012 02:09 AM

Oh goodie...

This thread again.

:deadhorse

Johnny Hoxville 07-29-2012 09:29 AM

@ DP@666, no mention of Janko?

tfong 07-29-2012 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bWo (Post 53079355)
Iginla would bring veteran leadership to the team and he knows what it takes to get to the finals. also the RW is weak.

As in there is no way the Caps would accept this value.

Johanesson is their current RW, and he can play center and is young and improving by leaps and bounds.

Wilson is their 1st round pick from this year that has power forward written all over him.

I'm not even a caps fan and I think there is no way they accept the trade, they essentially give up a proven 2nd liner with more upside still and 2 first round picks.

You have to look at it from both sides of the coin, why would the caps accept this deal? As it currently stands given the Nash trade, I would not trade Iginla, the time has past for him to give us back a superstar player already.

WhereIsIt 07-29-2012 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Miokid (Post 53080717)
I love how everyone thinks in the new NHL if a team doesn't make the playoffs, rebuild. Any issues, rebuild. The arena runs out of beer, rebuild.

Detroit, ask them about their rebuild. oh wait.

If every GM was a certain kind of HF poster there would be 22 teams every offseason looking to unload half their players for draft picks and prospects.

Devilspuppet666 07-29-2012 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MVW (Post 53084147)
@ DP@666, no mention of Janko?

lol he completely slipped my mind i'll add him in

tiger_80 07-29-2012 03:23 PM

The problem with the idea of the full-out rebuild for teams like Oilers or Flames is that they are not Flyers or Rangers who can sign top free agents every summer, which basically leaves little alternative to 4-5 years of basement dwelling with no guaranteed reward down the road.

Oilers got a bit "lucky" with three straight 1st overall picks due to an insane amount of injuries in some of these years, but the Flames could well end up with 3 picks in let's say 3-10 range (let's say 3d, 8th and 5th overall). Is it reasonable to expect that in 5 years' time Bartschi and the rough equivalent of Gudbrandson, Couturier, Rielly will form the core that is substantially better than Kiprussof, Iginla, Bouwmeester in the present? I don't the expectation is very reasonable.

King Of The North 07-29-2012 04:38 PM

Tomorrowjm I'm assuming you had a fun time on NHL 12?

Stewie Griffin 07-31-2012 12:57 PM

The Flames are rebuilding - thing is most people just don't realize it (or are simply ignorant) because it's happening on the fly, and their best players haven't been moved out for spare parts. For those not paying attention, this upcoming season will be year four of the rebuild.

Year 1 (2009-10): Hire assistant GM Jay Feaster. Revamp scouting department; increase number of eastern and US scouts. Implement PUCKS system.

Year 2 (2010-11): Fire Darryl Sutter. Promote Jay Feaster to interim (then permanent) GM. Undo some of Sutter's damage. Acquire youth via trade (Butler, Byron, Horak, Stempniak). Begin a trend of drafting smart, skilled players instead of beefy plugs (Baertschi, Granlund, Gaudreau)

Year 3 (2011-12): Hired assistant GM John Weisbrod. Fired Head Coach Brent Sutter (finally) and hired Bob Hartley. Continued with drafting players with skill (Jankowski). From last year to this year, the team's average age has dropped two years - from around 29.7 (according to CBC) to 27.7 (QuantHockey).

Interesting trivia: the Flames' third second round pick in two years is more 2nd rounders than Darryl Sutter picked in six years.

Year four (2012-13): Acquire scoring punch in Denis Wideman & Jiri Hudler. Roman Cervenka also expected to add help up front. For the first time since Dion Phaneuf, it looks like a player from the WHL will crack the big club on opening night (Baertschi). A handful of AHL players (Aliu, Nemisz, Reinhart) also have a legitimate shot of cracking the lineup full-time as well, at the expense of some veterans (Stajan, Jackman) - which would be unheard of during Sutter's reign.



Also of note - the Flames tried the scorched earth rebuild before. It failed miserably, but not necessarily because of a lack of effort; more like a lack of commitment. It was marketed as "The Young Guns" campaign. As a fan, I hope never to have to go through that again, and I can't blame the owners - who also want to avoid that at all costs. However, had the Flames owners & fans been a bit more patient during that process (nobody was after basically ten years of failure) our top line could have been St. Louis (bought out) - Savard (traded for fighting with coach who was fired a week later) - Iginla (was almost Todd Harvey)...


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