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-   -   Honest Bouwmeester evaluation. (http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/showthread.php?t=1239365)

ZetterBurger 07-30-2012 09:59 PM

Honest Bouwmeester evaluation.
 
Hey there everyone another fan on the Wings board gave me this idea.

Bouwmeester seems to be one of the most polarizing players in the NHL as far as people who like his game or hate it. I am not asking about trade value or about how he might turn his career around.

I want to know how you would assess his overall game. Strengths and weaknesses. Positioning, passing, poise, decision making. I would like to get some honest opinions from Flames fans without mixing it what he is worth on the trade market. Please try to give an honest, unbiased evaluation of his game haha.

Thanks.

TheHudlinator 07-30-2012 10:15 PM

Honestly he plays the same way Lidstrom played with out the slap shot. He is a great skater, very good positionally, he loves to use his stick, he isn't going give you bone crushing hits but he isn't as soft as some say. His biggest weakness is his shot he doesn't hit it overly fast and usually only uses it as a last resort.

ZetterBurger 07-30-2012 10:16 PM

Where would you slot him if you were ranking defense men? top 15? 20?

TheHudlinator 07-30-2012 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZetterBurger (Post 53134923)
Where would you slot him if you were ranking defense men? top 15? 20?

Top 30, he isn't the best offensively or defensively but is very solid. He is a lower end #1 defenseman and if used effectively could be a 50 point defenseman.

InfinityIggy 07-30-2012 10:20 PM

The smoothest skater in the NHL. Say what you will but he is in my opinion.

He is also the NHL iron man.

He also plays some of the hardest minutes in the NHL.

When you combine those three things, I don't see how you can make The argument that he is anything less than a top 30 defender in the league.

Oillio* 07-30-2012 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by InfinityIggy (Post 53135057)
The smoothest skater in the NHL. Say what you will but he is in my opinion.

He is also the NHL iron man.

He also plays some of the hardest minutes in the NHL.

When you combine those three things, I don't see how you can make The argument that he is anything less than a top 30 defender in the league.

http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.h...plusMinus&pg=1

TheHudlinator 07-30-2012 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oillio (Post 53135205)

So Ian White is the 5th best defenseman in the league?

Bond 07-30-2012 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZetterBurger (Post 53134923)
Where would you slot him if you were ranking defense men? top 15? 20?

I would put him 20-30 depending on the day. I don't think he is top 15 but others may disagree. He is a strong skater, good positionally, and logs a lot of minutes. He is a consistent yet overpaid positional defenseman with great skating that has lot his scoring touch since coming to Calgary. If he could regain his scoring I think he would be very valuable to a team.

I also don't think he can effectively lead a d-corp

TheHudlinator 07-30-2012 10:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bond (Post 53135305)
I would put him 20-30 depending on the day. I don't think he is top 15 but others may disagree. He is a strong skater, good positionally, and logs a lot of minutes. He is a consistent yet overpaid positional defenseman with great skating that has lot his scoring touch since coming to Calgary. If he could regain his scoring I think he would be very valuable to a team.

I also don't think he can effectively lead a d-corp

If not used as a defensive defenseman playing some of the hardest minutes in the nhl he should easily regain his offensive #s

Janks 07-30-2012 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oillio (Post 53135205)

You're good at this. Wanna be a GM, and I'll be one too?

I'll trade you my scraps for Cam Fowler, he's the second worst D-man on the list.

Cam Fowler for 7th rounder. Fair?

Don't troll

Banner 07-30-2012 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oillio (Post 53135205)

It's losers like this guy that ruins the reputation of all oiler fans. It sucks cause some of them actually have class and are good people.

OT: Bouwmeester can't be any lower than top 30. He's on the top pairing on almost every NHL team take away 1 or 2. Plays half the game, ES, SH, and PP. He's not going to give you big hits but will get the job done. If he had continued to put up his offensive numbers from florida while in calgary then we'd all be praising him. I think no more Sutter could be an upside for his all around play.

Bond 07-30-2012 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGleninator (Post 53135669)
If not used as a defensive defenseman playing some of the hardest minutes in the nhl he should easily regain his offensive #s

Yeah, but if he could put it all together :yo:

King In The North 07-30-2012 10:51 PM

If he's ever going to solidify himself as a true top pairing defensman, it'll be with the Wings. His numbers could come back and he'll stay rock solid on defense.

MarkGio 07-30-2012 11:17 PM

It depends what kind of defensemen we're talking about. He's probably in the top 30 for shut-down, top 30 for offensive, but top 20 for all around two-way defensemen.

Trae 07-30-2012 11:22 PM

He's a solid all around player, his biggest asset being his skating and stamina. He is an intelligent decision maker and is sound positionally. He won't throw around the body as much as most defenders his size, but at the same time he rarely gets knocked around and can hold his own when needed. Bouwmeester has pretty good vision and is one of the better passers on the team. I would agree with other posters that his shot is easily his weakness, but can still be effective at setting up some decent chances on the poweplay. One thing that is incredibly misinterpreted on HF is that JBo has no heart, which is completely fabricated. The reason people believe that is because he is fantastic at keeping his composure and staying focused on the game. He will contribute adequate offensive numbers and I'm assuming he'll be playing with Kronwall, which should be a deadly duo, especially since he won't have to carry the burden of being the #1 guy when Kronwall will likely take that role.

ZetterBurger 07-30-2012 11:25 PM

How easily is he forced into turnovers? Does he make poor decisions often? Is he caught out of position often? How is he with the puck in the offensive zone?

King In The North 07-30-2012 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZetterBurger (Post 53136899)
How easily is he forced into turnovers? Does he make poor decisions often? Is he caught out of position often? How is he with the puck in the offensive zone?

The first two? He's first in giveaways but that can be misleading (Zette was your turnover leader, not a good indication of how he really is).

He's never really out of position because he's such a great skater; he can pinch and come back into position in no time.

Calgary's PP was very inconsistent. I'm not a big fan of JBo with the PP system that we had, but I'll give him some credit; there were a lot of times he makes beautiful passes but hardly any one would finish. There's times where he would sneak into the slot (did that very well in Florida) but no one could pass to him...or he'd miss.

I believe the system in Florida was that Jbo was used more up front and Jokinen was manning the point.

ZetterBurger 07-30-2012 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GLaDOS (Post 53137099)
The first two? He's first in giveaways but that can be misleading (Zette was your turnover leader, not a good indication of how he really is).

He's never really out of position because he's such a great skater; he can pinch and come back into position in no time.

Calgary's PP was very inconsistent. I'm not a big fan of JBo with the PP system that we had, but I'll give him some credit; there were a lot of times he makes beautiful passes but hardly any one would finish. There's times where he would sneak into the slot (did that very well in Florida) but no one could pass to him...or he'd miss.

I believe the system in Florida was that Jbo was used more up front and Jokinen was manning the point.

The overall system in FLA seemed to have JBo jumping up a lot and they relied on him for offense. In Calgary they seemed to want him to be their best shutdown guy while providing a lot of offense. I think that's too much for him.

Volica 07-30-2012 11:57 PM

To be perfectly honest.

Pros:
He's a really strong skater. He's really good at positioning himself. He eats up minutes. Can play against top line relatively well. Has a good offensive instinct that was not used at all during the Sutter era. Has a decent wrister, no slap.
The main pro on this guy, is he'll eat up minutes and will never be out of position.

Cons.
Soft as hell, Cap hit is too high, at times makes some boneheaded mistakes (mind you, he's playing 25 minutes a night, he's bound to have a bad shift). Cannot, and should not be paired with a guy who isn't a a legit 1-2 pair guy (Butler is a decent player, don't get me wrong, but he seemed lost a lot playing against other top lines). Plays with little heart. You wonder how he played 15 of his minutes, you never heard his name. Could use his stick a lot more... he tends to get into more pushing on someone than checking with his long stick.

Side notes:
I don't know how I feel about moving him. Under a different coach, he could be a top tier D-man in the league (also right system + surroundings)... however, he also is our best trade bait, and only real chance of landing a top center this year.
He's not overly gifted in the offense, I.E, you're not going to see him Gio the line and make a wicked pass. Simplicity is his motto.

WhereIsIt 07-31-2012 12:04 AM

He's a top pairing defenseman but he has to be paired with a tougher, defensive defenseman, otherwise he looks a bit lost in moments when he really shouldn't be given his abilities. I think he might be a bit of a headcase, because the tools all seem to be there. He has great instincts and the skills to go with it, but sometimes it seems like he's lacking confidence.

Also, he will be advertised as "smooth skating"... yeah sure he looks good skating out there for a big guy but I don't think he's especially fast. Can't remember the last time I thought to myself, "Wow, look at those wheels on Bouwmeester tonight!".

SmellOfVictory 07-31-2012 12:27 AM

Positionally fantastic, great skater (partially related), good with the stick, okay at moving guys off the puck. Never seen him throw a full hit, though. I have no idea how he scored so many goals in Florida because he always shoots muffins in Calgary, his first pass is either amazing or terrible depending on the day, and he's offensively okay in terms of his decision making.

Most of his turnovers aren't forced. They tend to be intercepted passes. If he's getting pressured he generally makes a good play (skating the puck away or shooting it off the glass). Basically you don't want to rely on him to instigate the breakout.

Skobel24 07-31-2012 12:34 AM

As someone already said, he's basically a lesser Lidstrom without the shot. I'm expecting a big boost to his numbers this year though. Between Hartley coaching and Wideman likely playing beside him, I think he rebounds.

Johnny Hoxville 07-31-2012 10:29 AM

The best way I can describe Jbo is a "poor mans" Lidstrom, he plays a similar style to Nik, although he is no where near that level. Solid skater, makes it look effortless the way he skates. He has the ability to recover very quickly when he does pinch or gets caught out of position.

I actually remember one game last year when Jbo ripped a shot from the point and he almost took the goaltenders head off. The announcer even commented on saying he had never seen Jbo shoot that hard. My point is, I think he actually does have an excellent, hard shot, he was just never encouraged to use it or the offence never allowed him to showcase it. I also think he scored lots of his goals in Florida because he pinched from the weak side alot more in attempt for the back door play. You can see here he will attempt that once or so in a game, but very rarely does he actually get fed the puck.

Bouwmeester is very good positionaly with using his speed as his biggest asset. And he actually developed somewhat of a mean streak this past season which I have never seen from him in the past. But more times than not, his uses his skating and stick to defend.

Negatives as others have pointed out include his contract which is only considered to be high because of his lack of production. I can't put my finger on it, you can see he has all the tools to be a 50pt+ dman, but for some reason he has not produced here. The other thing is, and I'm not sure its a negative but he isn't overly physical. Personally I'd like to see him develop that mean streak a little further because I feel he is most effective when he plays that way.

Overall, Bouwmeester is a top pairing guy on pretty much any team in the NHL. I could totally see him flourishing again under the right coach and environment. He by far had his best season here last year, and the hate on HF for Jbo is not warranted.

BVicious 07-31-2012 10:42 AM

You're crazy if you don't rate him in the top 20 in the league. Cap hit, is not the question, it's the player on the ice. He never takes a night off, works hard for all 30 min. a night. If he's paired with the right partner he would be elite. He would. He hasn't found it yet in Calgary because the Flames transition game and breakout game has been horrible since he's got here. Teams like Detroit, Van, Philly, etc, can make 2 passes an they are out of their zone and in the off. Zone. Calgary has not been able to break out, or recover in the nuetral zone for a long time.

Obviously that's a coaching problem and the fact players would never know who's on their line from game to game let alone shift to shift.

I think JBo is one of those players you have to ignore the cap hit. I would take him over Dion any day.

In conclusion, JBo would be great on 29 other teams. Feaster is not dumb, he knows he holds value to our club more than media would ever say. And teams will pay a hefty price for him.

But I think he has not been traded simply because they are waiting for the right deal, before they even think of asking him to waive his NTC.

BVicious 07-31-2012 10:46 AM

Oh he does have a mean streak, it just takes lots to get it out of him. Anyone remember when he cross checked Horcoff in the neck? Was ****ing brutal but awesome :)


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